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Maverick
12-14-2005, 04:48 PM
Hi there

Sorry for this basic question, but I'm quite (48h) new to the Mac community.

Following all the good advice on this site, I want to separate the PS application files from the PS scratch disk. I therefore have two hds in my Mac. One 300GB Maxtor from which I boot, and one 250GB WD that came stock with the Powermac which I use for data and want to use for PS scratch.

Now, I can't allocate the WD as the primary scratch drive in Photoshop (CS2). If I do, I get a "Could not initialise Photoshop because the disk is not available" error message the next time I start PS, half way through the launch process and PS exits. I then have to delete the preferences file and start over.

Now this drive IS available. It's there in the finder, I can boot from it, everything. Do I HAVE to keep the boot drive as the first scratch disk in PS? That was not the case under Windows.

Thanks for helping me out
Regards
Maverick

kaye
12-14-2005, 07:55 PM
Maverick,

This is turning into a tough 48h for you. I have read your post at least a dozen times and can't figure out why you cannot do that. My dual G5 I do that all the time, from either drive. Can select the drive I have not booted from as primary scratch. Have similar drives too, 300GB Maxtor and 250GB WD which came with the G5.

The only possible thing I can think of, you have Pshop CS2 on both drives? I do and have never tried to launch CS2 from the other drive, only from the drive I have booted from. Other than that possibility, I'm mystified. Hope this makes sense. k

unclemac
12-14-2005, 08:56 PM
Hi Maverick,

Not a PS guy, so not much help. Just wondering.....could it be a permissions problem? You might do a Get Info on the second drive and see what permissions are, just to rule it out. If you are unsure of what's what, post your findings and someone can verify it for you.

Good luck

Maverick
12-15-2005, 01:46 AM
Thanks guys

I do have Read & Write access to the drive (Owner: system: Read & Write; Group: admin:Read & Write; Others: Read only

The WD Drive is the drive that the G5 shipped with and it has a OSX install on it. I therefore installed OSX on the second drive (Maxtor) and now boot from that via the Start up disk option in System Preferences. I DID have Photoshop installed on the other HD (from within the other OSX instance), but I thought I removed it. Reason being I couldn't get Photoshop to work on the second disk (Maxtor) because I formatted it with the "case sensitive" option enabled - big mistake :-)

Took me two hours and two complete re-installs to figure that one out ...

Now, do I have to remove the scratch file from the Photoshop installation on the first HD (WD) manually? I followed all the "uninstall" instructions that came with PS though ...

Thanks for helping me out
Regards
Maverick

PS: I have some distant memories back in my PC days (a week ago) where someone told me: "With a mac, all you have to do is put the application icon in the trash" ;-) - yeah, kind of ... (no pun intended, I love my Mac!)

kaye
12-15-2005, 06:09 AM
Maverick,

This is getting way beyond me so I emailed Boots who is one of our industrial strength Pshop guys and has a Quad. This being the holiday season, it may take awhile for him to appear. k

Boots
12-15-2005, 09:45 AM
Do I HAVE to keep the boot drive as the first scratch disk in PS?

No certainly not...

Sounds like some permissions or preferences/case sensitive screw up of some kind.
I think I would:

A. move your image files etc that are on the 250GB drive back to the 300GB drive.

B. Initialize the 250GB drive as one volume erasing it completely and naming it normally.

Then move your image files back on to it from the 300GB drive and also point Pshop's first scratch disk to that same new volume. Be sure to leave plenty of space on the volume for scratch.

If you're trying to also use the 250GB drive as a backup for the 300GB drive, partition it when you initialize it into two volumes, the first for Pshop scratch and image files, and the second volume as a backup space for what's on the 300GB drive...

Maverick
12-15-2005, 11:05 AM
Hi there

Thanks Boots for your reply. Even though copying, formatting etc. are extremly attractive to me, I'm not sure what that would solve since the "case sensitive" mistake I made was on the other disk and has now been solved (by copying, reformatting and reinstalling OSX ...). Remember the 250GB disk that Photoshop won't accept as scratch is the factory installed drive. And if I copy everything to the 300GB and then back, am I not copying the problem with it?

What do you mean by permissions / preferences screw up? There is nothing left of PS on the 250GB. Or are there hidden files I should delete? Or do you mean on the 300GB, but then initialising the 250GB won't help.

Even the console tells me nothing. (It did with the case sensitive business - although it was about as clear as my wife when expressing her feelings ...)

Thanks again for all of your time. I really appreciate

Regards
Maverick

kaye
12-15-2005, 11:27 AM
Until Boots returns, boot your 300GB, go to Applications folder, open the Utilities folder, and look for Disk Utility. It is so necessary that I have it in the dock. You can just drag it to the dock.

Anyway, launch Disk Utility, select your drive, and select Repair Permissions. You will see a bunch of "We are using special permissions..." plus a "We are using a special gid for...". Expect to see those. You are looking for other comments.

I like to expand the Disk Utility window as far horizontally as I can so that I can see those special comments and ignore those. At the bar on the bottom of the window is a small triangle ///. Click and hold that to expand.

I repair permissions again until I see nothing but those special permissions comments. There is also another feature in that window to Verify Drive. Run that. And you can Repair Permissions on your other boot drive, just select it in the same window. Plus your other boot drive (but not the one you are booted to) you can Repair Drive. k

Maverick
12-15-2005, 12:44 PM
Thanks Kaye

Tried that, nothing came up. Just the "special permissions" you mentioned. Nothing on the "Verify Disk". (Thanks for the lesson on Disk Utility, highly appreciated - especially the bit about expanding the window, makes reading it a hell of a lot easier.

Then I compared the "Data Info" Boxes (Command I) of both drives and I found an "ignore ownership on this volume" checkbox all the way at the bottom under "ownership & permissions" on the 250GB drive (remember thats the drive I want to use as scratch). That check box does NOT exist on the 300GB drive (remember thats the boot drive).

Guess what? I checked that check box and Bingo - I can now use that drive as scratch in PS. (I wish my wife had one of those ...)

Go figure ...

Anyone with an explanation? Am I circumventing a problem that I'd better fix differently?

Regards
Maverick

Boots
12-15-2005, 12:49 PM
As Kaye suggests, perhaps Disk Utility will find problems to fix...

Also- maybe we should back up a bit with a couple of questions:

1. Why do you have OSX installed on both drives? Is the version on the 250GB Caviar a clone of the version on the 300GB? Do you use each of these bootable volumes for differant purposes?


2. The "250GB WD that came stock with the Powermac which I use for data and want to use for PS scratch"- how much data is on there and what is it? Are these strictly image files or a variety of documents? Are they stored separate from the System & User directories on this drive? Is the Caviar divided into several volumes?

An installation of Photoshop CS2 in the /Applications folder along with /System, /Library, /Users on the Caviar would not normally cause a problem since you are allowed two installations of CS2 under the license....


Or do you mean on the 300GB, but then initialising the 250GB won't help.

So are you saying that:

Booting from the system on the 300GB Maxtor(?) and PSCS2 is installed in the Applications folder, and even after erasing the Caviar so there are 0 files on it, PSCS2 will not let you select it- the Caviar- as a scratch disk?

Boots
12-15-2005, 02:13 PM
Anyone with an explanation? Am I circumventing a problem that I'd better fix differently?

Mav, when you re-installed OSX on the Caviar, did you use the same user short name as on the system on the 300GB system? Or a different one? Password same or different? Also, how are you set up exactly- what are the directory contents of each drive right now?

Nicolas
12-15-2005, 02:39 PM
Hello,

I am not sure but could it be an issue with the online activation?
(Let's say frist install under user abc now it is user xyz)

Maybe it helps when removing the PS pref in Users>Library?
(Some PS issues can be solved by removing this pref file maybe it is corrupt)

Regards

Nicolas

Maverick
12-15-2005, 02:50 PM
Hi boots

Woah, let's see if I can be precise enough:

I have 2 HDs: (a) Maxtor300GB (my bootdrive), (b) WD250GB (my data / scratch drive). Both drive have one partition each. Not sure which HD you refer to as "Caviar". The Western Digital (WD250GB)? I also have a LaCie, but this one is being treated on another forum here (thanks kaye ;-)

1. There are two reasons why I have 2 OSX installs: (1) because there was one OSX installation on the WD250GB when I got the Mac and when I installed the one OSX installation I am currently using on the Maxtor300GB, I simply did not bother deleting the other one (fact is I don't know whether you can move an OSX install from one drive to another). (2) I've learned in my PC days, that it's nice to have a 2nd bootable installation around in case something goes wrong with the first one. Both installs are totally independant of each other (no clone).

2. YES I am using the same short name on both OSX installations, but different passwords

3. Both PSCS2 installations are plain vanilla installs in default locations in the respective OSX installs.

4. No, I could not install PSCS2 on both OSX installs at the same time (when I tried, Creative Suite install greyed out PS and ImageReady. I had to uninstall PSCS2 on the WD250GB before I could install it on the Maxtor300GB

5. My WD250GB contains approx 140GB of data, 90GB OSX install, 50GB data in three separate folders, independant of the OSX install on that drive.

6. As mentioned in my last post, disk utility returned nothing (repeat nothing) except for the "special permissions" mentioned by Kaye.

7. I don't know how to backup a OSX install yet (hey I only got this baby 3 days ago ...)

Hope that helps and that I have been precise enough this time ...
Thanks for your patience
Regards
Maverick

PS: Just scored 146 on Xbench, and I feel very proud to have one of these babies ...

Maverick
12-15-2005, 02:53 PM
Hi Nicolas

No, activation is fine. Photoshop runs fine. It's just when I change the scratch drive that the error occurs.

And remember, by putting that check mark under "ignore ownership ..." on the WD250GB's Info screen, it now works fine.

We still try to find the cause though ...

Thanks
Maverick

kaye
12-15-2005, 03:11 PM
Maverick,

And remember, by putting that check mark under "ignore ownership ..." on the WD250GB's Info screen, it now works fine.
It now works fine as a scratch. But by doing that, you will not be able to boot from the WD 250GB (called a Cavier, WD's name). For a drive to be bootable, that box must be unchecked. So there is something else going on here and I think it is because you don't have identical login names for the two drives.

We all use applications that will clone exactly one drive or volume to another drive or volume. k

TZ
12-15-2005, 03:27 PM
Sounds like time to use Disk Utility to partition your drive(s).
Disk Utility can also Restore (clone) one volume to another.
Carbon Copy Cloner is another useful cloning program, though I use it mostly for copying /Users to another drive/volume.

I keep my "emergency" boot volume on its own smaller partition - on FW and on other hard drives, and keep my main OS volume larger but free of media files.

Maverick
12-15-2005, 03:44 PM
Hi there

So ...

Do I interpret you guys correctly:

1) I should back up all the files I want to keep from the WD250GB (Caviar) and then split it into two partitions (with Disk Utility). One to be used as my SOS boot partition and the other as my data / scratch partition?
2) Then, using Disk Utility or Carbon Copy make a clone of my working OSX installation (currently on Maxtor300GB) to that SOS boot partition?

Question: Will "cloning" my current OSX installation clone all applications with it? If so I fear that I will get into trouble with licenses and stuff or won't I? (remember, Adobe did not let me install a second Photoshop instance yesterday)

Sorry for being slow ...

Regards
Maverick

TZ
12-15-2005, 04:04 PM
I would not mix scratch and media on the same partition. Also, there are some tips on when/if using the boot drive for scratch might work (especially with 300GB 16MB cache boot drive).

Your emergency system is sans media files (if you have a large /Users folder now, use CCC and then just copy ~/Library ) and your data should be backed up elsewhere.

If "Data" or /Users is on the 250GB, and you partition the 300GB (150/150?) you can backup data to the 2nd partition of the boot drive.

you might want to backup everything into one place, then move it where it is suppose to go - AFTER you are sure you have two backups at any given time, AND your FW issue means your files are 'relatively' safe on FW (also an if for FW).

Also, once you have your basic system installed etc. consider a backup to disk image - probably on FW drive that you can also restore and 'drop in place' if needed. If you can (and you should) be able to keep the DMG down in size to less than 8GB or so, and IF you have a DL DVD burner, you could also create a DVD copy (not bootable, but will restore probably).

Also make sure the "Ignore" flag is off. CCC will alert you, Disk Utility Restore will not, so you need to turn it off manually before starting the restore process.

kaye
12-15-2005, 07:42 PM
Question: Will "cloning" my current OSX installation clone all applications with it? If so I fear that I will get into trouble with licenses and stuff or won't I? (remember, Adobe did not let me install a second Photoshop instance yesterday)
Sorry for being slow ...
Maverick,

One thing you are not is slow. You are coping with all of this info remarkably well for a first time Mac user, even a more experienced Mac user.

Now about the cloning operation. I do it at least once a month, sometimes more frequently. Before cloning I always at least run Disk Utility to repair permissions on the drive or volume I am cloning from and verify that same drive or volume. The cloning operation itself does not cause Adobe to think that I am installing a second Photoshop CS2. No warnings, no hassles, no refusals. I can boot to the cloned backup drive and use CS2 without complaint. For me the backup is my safeguard in case disaster afflicts my primary boot drive. And of course if you don't have a backup, you will have a disaster. k

unclemac
12-15-2005, 08:59 PM
Right. A clone is quite literally a duplciate. Everything gets duped, including all of the oh-so important invisible files, apps, and preferences (except for a very few special items in ~/Library/Preferences/ByHost, if you move the image to different machines). All permssions are retained as well, so any existing problems in the master will be present in the clone too.

So yes, you will have all your apps in a second (third, fourth, etc.) OS clone, but you would have to somehow run them at the same time to actully have a license problem.

That is, unless Adobe is so crafty with CS2 that it will detect other installs upon launching an app; as of CS1 other installs were only detected during the install process. So cloning bypasses that.

Oh a side note, it is possible to turn on ACLs in 10.4 which can be used to over ride the standard POSIX permissions we see via Get Info. But that opens up a whole other can of worms. Have not done it yet for a client install - only starting to dig into in 10.4 Server - so I can't recommend it.

Maverick
12-16-2005, 05:12 AM
Thanks to all of you

I repartitioned, Carbon cloned my OSX installation, assigned my scratch drive and am now ready for some serious Photoshopping.

Thanks Kaye, Boots, TZ, Unclemac and the others for your help and patience

Regards
Maverick

kaye
12-16-2005, 06:02 AM
One more tool for your maintenance utilities is DiskWarrior 3.0.3 (http://www.alsoft.com/DiskWarrior/index.html). Just about all of us use it. Boots has a thread on the G5 forum in which he says v3.0.3 works on his Quad G5. The drive you wish to repair the directory of cannot be the boot drive, so for instance if you want DiskWarrior to work on your Maxtor, you need to have DiskWarrior on your WD, and vice versa.

It also has a feature for creating a bootable CD from which you can repair either drive. Boots has not tried that yet. Before I recreate a clone, I boot to it, run Disk Utility Repair Permissions and Repair Drive and then DiskWarrior on the primary boot drive. Then reboot to the primary to clone.

What you are trying to prevent, as I think it was unclemac who said, is that any warts on the primary drive gets cloned to the backup. So you want that drive ship shape before cloning it. k

Boots
12-16-2005, 08:23 AM
Do I interpret you guys correctly:

1) I should back up all the files I want to keep from the WD250GB (Caviar) and then split it into two partitions (with Disk Utility). One to be used as my SOS boot partition and the other as my data / scratch partition?
2) Then, using Disk Utility or Carbon Copy make a clone of my working OSX installation (currently on Maxtor300GB) to that SOS boot partition?

Yes. And if the Maxtor300GB drive is of the 16MB cache variety, you may find- depending on the size of the image files you're working, number of layers, and the number of History and Save states you use- it may be better performance to actually assign the Maxtor as the first scratch disk, since the Caviar is a slower drive. However, if your scratch file is at all large, then leave it assigned to the Caviar...

Basically what I'm saying is if the scratch drive is slower than the startup drive, it may slow performance depending on scratch file size. You can test this with PshopTest (http://www.macgurus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20218).

Hopefully you've got the first partition of the Caviar setup as the data/scratch drive.

Maverick
12-17-2005, 03:08 AM
Hi there

Thanks for the Tool-tips, I really appreciate. Yes I did set up the scratch partition as the first as recommended on this site (and as confirmed by Xbench it's the fastest of the three partitions on that drive.

When I get to do some photoshop performance tests, I'll let you know.

After reading a couple of threads on performance, I might have found a use for the 2 10'000 rpm disks in my old dell - but hey not now, I held you far to busy already :-)

Regards
Maverick

cunaz
01-26-2006, 09:12 AM
I have a few thoughts to add to this thread.

I just purchased a Quad G5. I replaced the stock WD2500 w/ two WD Raptor 74GBs. When trying to designate the second HD as Scratch, I too received the "...unable to initialize..." error. After reading this thread, I enabled the "Ignore ownership permissions..." and now CS2 works just fine.

So, unlike the original poster, I did not have multiple OSX installs, duplicated user accounts, etc.

This issue has to do with ownership permissions. Hmmm!