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xoshooter
09-28-2005, 02:01 PM
I am a wedding photographer shooting with a raw workflow. I regularly come home with 12-17gb of raw files. I burn these to dvds and backup to harddrive. I need to upgrade somethings and not afraid to 'go inside'. I do not have the $$$ for a g5 so the MDD g4/dual 867 has to do for now.

Here are my needs:

1. storage - thinking some form of hotswappable external drive but do not know difference bet. sata, esata, scsi, fw400/800 etc. Once I am done editing and batch processing I rarely ever access the files beyond 6months.

2. Speed/optimizing my current system for ps cs2 batch processing/bridge browsing/editing.

I was considering the dual burly thing but got confused with the sata, ide, fw800 stuff and could not find easy answers distinguishing them. Thought a hot swappable system would work for long term/near term storage $4$.

Next I was thinking of replacing the original apple shipped drive withsomething faster and separating the system from the user files but again got confused and could not find easy answers on how to do this and keep permissions/passwords integrity.I already recently added an internal 120 gb seagate bc drive being told it is the largest i could add and partitioned this in half dedicating one half for ps scratch only. Initially i put it in the front bay but the system crawled and then moved it to the back next the the original and it appeared to operate normally. There is no master or slave set.

I feel like I know just enough to really bring my system down instead of up. I once tried moving all my user files off of the main drive and pretty much nearly lost everything thinking this would speed everything up but I guess i did not do it correctly. there were no real instructions/procedures to follow except 'separate' your user files to speed things up so that is what i did. did not know I would screw up my permissions, etc.

any light shed will bring me one step closer to more time working and less time watching the spinning wheel.

thanks

TZ
09-28-2005, 03:16 PM
Here are my needs:

1. storage - thinking some form of hotswappable external drive but do not know difference bet. sata, esata, scsi, fw400/800 etc. Once I am done editing and batch processing I rarely ever access the files beyond 6months.

2. Speed/optimizing my current system for ps cs2 batch processing/bridge browsing/editing.

I was considering the dual burly thing but got confused with the sata, ide, fw800 stuff and could not find easy answers distinguishing them.

I like the looks of this SeriTek 2-drive bay, external hot-swap (http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1en2/)
MacGurus Hot-swap Kits (http://www.macgurus.com/productpages/sata/hotswapsatakits.php) has a nice small two-drive kit also.

An MDD *needs* fast scratch disk. Therefore either a fast SATA or SCSI Burly or at least a two-drive internal SATA RAID.

Did you go through the Photoshop Guide and FAQ? they really do walk you through. CS2 love memory. And you are limited to 2GB on your MDD. The Graphics Studio forum has some excellent threads on CS2.

I already recently added an internal 120 gb seagate bc drive being told it is the largest i could add and partitioned this in half dedicating one half for ps scratch only. Initially i put it in the front bay but the system crawled and then moved it to the back next the the original and it appeared to operate normally.

The MDD supports large drives on both buses. I would look for at least 160GB or larger drives with 8MB cache or more. Then use the outer half for system on one, users on 2nd, and use the other half for backup/storage, and am emergency boot drive. But you do not want to partition and use the same drive for scratch and startup. The OEM 60GB is not up to what you do or want, and drives have improved tremendously in the meantime.

Sharing a single bus, two drives on ATA/100, where both are used concurrently, can impact performance. But it soulds like something more. Boot drive on the right ATA/100 bus, /Users or ATA/66 on the right. An SATA controller and pair of SATA drives for scratch (one in each drive cage internally). The WD Raptor (SATA) is an ideal drive for scratch or boot drive. Or, use a 300GB Maxtor DM10 (which comes in ATA and SATA).

There is no master or slave set.
All drives set to Cable Select then?

there were no real instructions/procedures to follow except 'separate' your user files to speed things up so that is what i did. did not know I would screw up my permissions, etc. Next I was thinking of replacing the original apple shipped drive with something faster and separating the system from the user files

Changing Users Location (http://www.macgurus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20965)
Damien's example with photos (http://www.macmeisters.com/~Damien/moveusers/)

I think a lot of people get confused and have trouble with moving users, which is why the forum has had some long and lengthy discussions in the past. One of which is in the FAQ as an example. When you have /Users elsewhere, you should use CCC, not just drag files, and you have to click on the drive partition, go to "Get Info" and make sure that "Ignore Ownership on this volume" is not checked if the drive is boot drive or holds /Users. In some cases, Batchmod utility is an easy way to restore or correct ownership and permissions on your home directory.

Mac OS X: The Missing Manual - spends less than two pages (p. 57) on moving Users. I have been using this method since 10.1.2, and using a RAID since 10.2.3 for either or both boot drive and for /users to speed performance.

any light shed will bring me one step closer to more time working and less time watching the spinning wheel.

If there was a cpu upgrade for the MDD to 2GHz (maybe someday with a 7448 cpu there will); and because it can't take more than 2GB of memory, I think you would be better served with replacing the MDD. In the end, you will come out ahead, and the "real cost" is the difference of $800 plus cost of memory, and the G5 can make good use of 8GB, and reduce the need for spending money on disk drives. I would seriously look to sell the MDD and take an Apple Store Special 2.0DP PCI-X $1699... seriously.

TZ
09-29-2005, 09:41 AM
An external SATA solution that can be moved to a G5 or something in the future would be a worthwhile.

Also a Dual MDD is not bad for PS, not as fast as a G5 for sure, but a system that can handle a lot PS work. The 2GB RAM limit makes CS2 with dual 867 less than ideal, and may not be worth upgrading to CS2. maybe wait for CS3 and stay with earlier version? Just another catch-22.

If you are creating 100GB+ of new data in a month needs about 300-500GB (2 x 250GB) and at least 1.2TB to keep all that on-line if you want quick access without having to pop in tape or disk drives to find a file. (I think of hot-swap as just fast nearline storage and better than the old tape system.) A RAID system should consider 65-70% full as "full."

A RAID5 TB of storage would be one option if you want six months online. And a couple 500GB drives for redundant backup.

Also, to install two good solid internal drives. 300 GB for current projects, make sure there is a good boot drive. And two drive SATA Raptors for RAID.

Rick mentioned that an MDD can use two SeriTek/1V4 cards. Maybe one for external, and one for internal.

I think some steps, like moving /Users, stumps a lot of people when getting started tuning and optimizing a system. Probably not the easist to start with, but not difficult - harder to describe and see - but it does help.

Always have a backup. The idea is to spread the work load over multiple disk drives, so each drive can perform independently.

Boot drive for OS/Applications
Scratch - 1-4 drives in RAID
Project and media files
Users

Outside of RAID, the boot drive should be the fastest drive you have available.

xoshooter
09-29-2005, 11:42 AM
All of the stuff in theory sounds great. It is the implementation that gets a little challenging. Here is what I get so far:

Internally:
1. Replace original startup drive with a speedy one...then separate the operating system and applications from the user files on another drive.
2. On a third internal speedy drive partion as a scratch partition and working partition.
3. Add seritek card for both internal sata and external sata drives. (am I) Not sure what I am adding internally sata drive wise though and for what purpose

externally:
1. Add seritek dual sata hot swap housing with two seagate .8 drives for storage needs.

I am not a host with my computer. Maybe i am mistaking the use of 'host'.

Here is my workflow:

1. Shoot wedding and download to laptop on location and backup to external fw drive.
2. back in studio move files in external fw drive to external desktop fw drive and then burn dvd as backup/archive.
3. Edit images, convert raw files to jpg, upload images to host server for viewing.
4. Images are accessed very little at this point except to make a few prints or create albums. the drive will eventually be unused once full and used to archive.

Do I work on images inside my computer on fast drive/partition and once edited and uploaded move images to external backup for long term storage? should I used a sata housing for longterm storage or is it overkill and just get some cheapo swappable housing with cheap but stable drives?

I cannot go back to cs, enjoy cs2 too much. Have to work with it or doctor my system to optimise it. went to apple but see a dual 2.3 for 2199 refurb. not exactly a difference of 800$ upgrade.

TZ
09-29-2005, 12:28 PM
I was under the impression you needed access to 6 months of projects, which sounds like it could be a lot. Some members need high reliability of their storage needs and go with a RAID5 for protection, as well as some other form of backups.

I would have to bow to the Photoshop Gurus and Guides. Many members are concerned with speed, performance, and reducing how long it takes to work with files. The Photoshop Guide and PS FAQ are a good starting point.

My own preference in storage tends to SCSI - it has never failed my needs or expectations. SATA is sort of the "poor man's SCSI" today. it costs, but it kicks butt - not ideal for 500GB where 300GB costs $900 each and is "only" 30-45% faster.

Refurbished 2.0DP G5 $1700 (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?family=Certified&siteID=JWU6hEpoB3Q-RP0K8FGGwJGu3XduQi4WTw) was what I had in mind.

Most Moderators like to keep their old systems for backup, and like to hang on and keep them available. (PS: none of us are paid or compensated, the forum is an all-voluntee group.)

unclemac
09-29-2005, 01:04 PM
Not a PS guy, so I can only point to other's work and setups, but I think your points are a good start if keeping the MDD. Just to recap:

1) Fast boot drive, with OS +Apps.
2) Add SATA card, with one SATA drive for Scratch, and one for User info.
3) External storage that is pretty fast and very reliable, and can be migrated forward to a G5 if/when that day comes.

There is a second possibility in my mind, but I can't say which is better. Same as above, except RAID 0 with the SATA drive one and two, and leave User data on fast boot drive (default config).

If either sound good, there is no difference in hardware, so you could try both if you like. I would do the SATA RAID first, as there is no extra work:

1) Install hardware
2) Clone/install and config boot drive
3) Config SATA Stripe
4) Test PS Scratch Stripe and overall performance

If you find it less than stellar, all you do is erase initialize the Scratch RAID again as seperate drives, move User data over to SATA one (we can help with details), and Scratch to SATA two.

As for external storage, I really like a standalone RAID 5 box. We have about 6 at work, and all have been very solid, and pretty straight forward to set up. Use inxpensive ATA drives, and most connect via FW 800; you would need a FW 800 PCI card for best performance. Expect read/write speed to be about the same as your internal ATA drive performance.

TZ is correct SCSI is best: fast and stable. But the price per Meg is hard to swallow for alot of folks. Even though SCSI still leads the pack, I think that FW (FW 800 at least) and SATA have gotten good enough to be a good choice for SOHO.

And there is a backup plan in there too right? RAID 5 is very good, but not infalible.

TZ
09-29-2005, 02:52 PM
Just to be clear, the MDD has two ATA buses for hard drives (along with a 3rd for two optical drives) so it is easy to have two ATA drives, one on each bus, along with two drives running off a controller.

You can't create a RAID on the two native ATA buses, but it would be possible to run three or four SATA drives in a RAID - if someone wished to do so for some reason.

And seeing you have FW800 already (nice touch is to add your hardware to your user profile), you should be getting 50MB/sec if you have two year old or newer drives (55MB/sec off ATA/66, and 58MB/sec off ATA/100, for comparison) - using drives of 120GB or larger w/ 8MB cache. And possibly a little better than that with, say, Maxtor DM10/MLIII 300GB 16MB cache, an excellent drive for booting, media, FW800, and comes in either PATA or SATA.

xoshooter
09-29-2005, 03:34 PM
Okay, I do not want to sound ignorant but short of that I have to be. I am not techie enough yet to understand all the vocab being used. If I had unlimited funds (or someone elses) I would hire someone at this point but alas I must wade out into the water alone. (easier to catch fish that way also but have to have some idea what your doing before you step in).

I am sticking with the mdd and will buy whatever i need to optimize as long as I can carry it forward till when I can afford the g5 or g6 or 7....

Can someone point me to some book/website that explains some of these things? (ata, sata, pata, ata bus, raid 0,1,5 stripe,)

I am a little apprehensive about installing a new startup drive and losing my applications, passwords, etc and/or separating the user folders (which I am still a little unsure of which those are...is it the main hardrive/users(with the human portrait figure in it)? What about the applications, documents, library, etc folders? What about OS9 which i do not think i have gone into in about a year except by accident.? Do i need those? will that boost anything or free up anything or is it just safe to keep it.

TZ asked about backup. Currently I do not have a backup system in place except for my images (sort of) Only the original unedited unretouched images are backed up on DVD as a last resort should something really bad happen and I would have to start over sort of from scratch. What addtionally do I need to backup or protect myself. I am sensing even more storage needs. (Where does it end, or does it?) I do have a program called superduper and know it can make a clone like CCC but again, not certain what to do with it. I think Macguru is going to get a few benjamins by the end of this thread I sense.

If I was to get (looking at the guru store) the following and based on the last couple of posts by TZ and Unclemac: Feel free to correct or make alternative suggestions:

Internally:

1. Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 120gb drive to replace my current startup 60gb drive. What do I do with this drive that is being replaced? Is it still usable or just a funky paperweight? How do I partition it for CS2 optimization? How do I move my system, applications, user info from the old drive to the new drive? At this point to I separate the user info folder from the systme and applications? Both of the drives (original and recent seagate 120 purchase are in the back bays. How do I raid, stripe, partition, etc to make this work. I want to learn/understand but not sure where to look as stated above. This info is not 'common' knowledge for the average computer user or photographer.

Externally:

1: Some sort of SATA hot swappable system or fw800 (since I just bought a pci card) for image storage. If so which is 'better'? Someone mentioned I should edit with an internal fast drive and move to an external afterwards for storage. Is that accurate?

Money is not in abundance. I am a small biz photog and what I spend on computers means I do not spend on additional cf cards or something else for a while. This is important as time is as valuable as anything else but I cannot spend unlimited. I can't even say for sure what my budget is here since I am not certain what exactly my options are. I think scsi is not in there is what i am saying.

again thanks for all replies and generosity of time.

rguising
09-29-2005, 03:57 PM
firmtek 1SE2 and a 1EN2 enclosure + two SATA drives from whomever.

Seagate seems to be the way to go, but most brands are just fine.

Firewire is as good as dead....and if not now.. will be soon... Only Apple supports it, and frankly not well lately.

SATA=Serial ATA and is the current ATA technology. $400 or so for what I spoke of.

SCSI=too expensive for most folks, although the best. $1k to enter door.

<i>Disclaimer:<cr>
Guru rulers and moderators are all volunteer, are not employees, and not compensated by MG. We offer opinions and advise based on personal experience to solve your Mac problems, not to sell hardware.</i>

xoshooter
09-29-2005, 04:19 PM
Okay, firmtek 1sen2 is it + two drives.

Question:

Are these being solely used for storage archiving purposes or for some other system performance related thing. Are the drives setup a certain way? Do I raid them (????) I know there are different kinds of raids for storage/archival security and for speed and a combo but what makes sense? I think a striped raid makes things go faster but what things? For photoshop speed increases like batch converting 600 raw images to jpgs like for what I would need?

If I was to start backing things up what is a strategy to employ? I have superduper, cronnix(read somewhere to get it) and retrospect from some other purchase I made and think it is probably a good idea to start given i want to replace my original startup drive. Do I use the external firmtek system and have a dedicated backup drive for the desktop and laptop? Does this get partitioned? Are there ways to backup incrementally? Meaning, apple makes all kinds of security and system upgrades but always hesitant that something will go wrong. Should I upgrade to Tiger? Is it safe finally? Any thoughts here? I have tempted fate long enough.

unclemac
09-29-2005, 08:32 PM
OK, making a bit of progress.....

Yes, not common stuff, so we can slow down. :)

I think we should tackle one thing at a time. Maybe rough out the big picture, but maybe details for one thing at a time, then move on. Just a thought.

Big picture stuff: of the software you listed, Retropect is the one you want for incremental backups. We can get into that anytime, but I think it should come along a bit later.

xoshooter
09-29-2005, 08:55 PM
Hello Unclemac,

(like your moniker as i have one somewhere else named unclemilt)

I don't know about progress yet...been reading some other posts. I think I will try to tackle the internals first. Here is where I am going so far:

Inside:

1. Add this: seritek 1ve2+2 2port internal+2port external sata host card (http://www.macgurus.com/productpages/sata/FT1006.php)

then this: seagate 7200.8 250gb sata drive (http://www.macgurus.com/cgi-bin/ccp51/cp-app.cgi?pg=prod&ref=ST3250823AS)

or should I consider a larger drive.

then this to the recent seagata barracuda 120gb ATA drive I just installed:ama sata to ata133 converter (http://www.macgurus.com/productpages/sata/AM1010.php)

Should I use this drive partitioned someway for scratch or where should the scratch drive/partition be located.

also, should I use this drive as a current data/image file location for images being worked on and after finishing editing transfer to long term external storage drives (which I will get with the dual hot swap sata system eventually)

then with guidance:

2. separate the 10.3.9 and applications from user folder on to separate drives. Scared to do this having tried once and had to painstakingly start from scratch rebuilding my info not knowing what i actually did.

Not sure how to configure this all. How do I go about backing up and reinstalling so everything is 'hunky dory'. Do I use superduper here? What are my settings since I will be eventually separating the user folder/data from the os and apps? This is probably a good time to start getting into a backup strategy. Any suggestions on where to start?

I will deal with the external long term storage later. First the insides (speeding up system and pscs2 and backing up) and later the outside. Whats the says 'got a feel good on the inside before look good on the outside?'

Am i 'getting it' sort of?

M.Brane
09-29-2005, 10:00 PM
I think we should tackle one thing at a time.

Good plan. Too many things done at once makes for confusion.

Looks to me like your primary issue is a need for a good backup plan which goes hand-in hand with more, and faster storage. Welcome to the club. :D

Working with a known good backup will relieve a lot of the stress of moving things around. I know I don't like working without a net.

There have already been good reccomendations on hardware. Transferring your system to a new drive is not a big deal. You can use Disk Utility, Carbon Copy Cloner, etc. I'm partial to CCC myself. It seems to be faster, and less finicky on my "unsupported" system. YMMV. ;) Forget moving /Users for the time being if you're unsure about it. You can always do that later.

You can use your current drives for online secondary storage/backup after you configure the new setup.

Once you have your critical files backed up, and the new hardware installed/tested then we can worry about how to tweak it for best performance i.e moving /Users, RAID, and all that good stuff.

The thing that many of us of limited means agonize over is what we want vs. what we can afford. Always a tough decision, but one that must be made, and lived with.

We can only make suggestions. :)

xoshooter
09-29-2005, 10:33 PM
Just read review of seagate barracuda 7200.8 at storage review and it was not glowing, not even close relative to other drives available so i am rethinkng my drive choices.

I just looked at the backup software I have again and i do not have full retrospect but restrospect express, superduper and cronnix. I have not idea how to implement these relative to my hardware aquirements to come.

Still not sure what is important to backup or a system to employ. I feel I should begin to backup before I begin adding/deleting/moving my hardware around. Any initial backup strategy to follow? How often does a person backup and what is 'backupable'? Do i move/migrate my itunes off my internal drives? My old imac was so much more fun when I did not have a digital camera shooting 15+gb of images per shoot.

Besides the seagate sata 7200.8 drives should i consider others for better performane with the fimtek host adaptor with breaking the bank?

I want to move on this as I have 4-5 big shoots to do and edit in the next few weeks. So now I have to backup literally before I can move forward I guess.

1. Backup
2. Install new sata internal/external card
3. Remove original drive and replace with ________(fill in the blank)
4. Add the ata to sata card to use recently purchases 'cuda 120gb drive.
5. Next....configure system for speed, separate user from os/apps
6. Next...develop or adopt someones backup strategy
7. Add external firmtek hotswappable dual sata drive box

What is missing is know how to actually pull all this off. My head is spinning at 15k.

sleep.

Kind of sucks what keeps a person up late at night.

TZ
09-30-2005, 05:35 AM
For backups, well, please check the FAQ Index or forum for "backups" but I usually start with Apple's Disk Utility -> Restore, then use Carbon Copy Cloner, which is fast and reliable. The only other program I use is TriBackup 4 when I want to deal with just a folder. Way too many people impliment backup strategies AFTER the cows left the barn. Storage Review - server and one of their DBs went down and the DB hadn't been backed up. A web site/blog where it was all on laptop and the hard drive wasn't backed up. Probably step one.

For disk drives, as I pointed to below, Maxtor MLIII or DM10 300GB is excellent, either in ATA or SATA format. Lots of performance and storage for reasonable costs. And you could use ATA in FW. Other choice and good performance is the Hitachi "T"7K250 in 160 or 250GB. I would skip using 120GB drives. Difference in cost, go for 160GB minimum.

And to maintain peak performance keep the boot volume stripped clean of excess files, and 40 or 50GB free space. So 60-70GB partition. About the size of the WD 10K Raptor (74GB) makes an excellent boot drive but is SATA only, and costs ~$170-220 depending on where.

The nice thing about using same or similar drives is your backup can be used as your working drive if the need arises. Or you can create a RAID if you have them connected to a PCI controller.

There are links to glossaries, FAQS, tech dictionary, and more FAQ Guide Index (http://www.macgurus.com/forums/showpost.php?p=68114&postcount=1) I think it makes for a good check list, too. Books, Backups, Browsers...

The various acronyms about ATA/SATA or SATA II may not be in a list. But you will find a lot about SATA Controllers in another section. Maybe it should be indexed like a book, with Table of Contents (I've tried in some threads to even do that.) Every FAQ becomes old and dated and has to be kept current to be used. Maybe a pdf version of the whole 400 pages - but that is unlikely.

I know that every upgrade discussion like this, is nearly the same, heads in same or similar direction and steps, yet has to be personalized while the "my head is doing 15K and my system is still in first gear at 7200 rpms (or less).

xoshooter
09-30-2005, 10:25 AM
TZ

Would you suggest I call macguru to discuss my needs rather than posting here and trying to sort it out? I do not need to reinvent the wheel, just fix or improve the one I've got. I apologize that you feel you need to resay what you might have already said before in another way. I hope you undersatand I just want to spend my money wisely and that I am not educated when it comes to computer hardware. I take photographs for a living and just trying to keep up on that technology is challenging enough. I was up half the night going through different threads and posts and discussions trying to sort this all out. Maybe if I had found my answers I would not post anymore. Maybe if I knew the answers I could avoid posting all together but I do not. I teach photography in NYC as well as be a working pro shooter and I often get the same questions over and over again, just a different camera and a different person. What is the best CF card, what is a depth of field, aperture. How do you get that movement thing happening in the backround. I often educate my clients even more than i feel i have to but the more they know the more they appreciate that the money they are spending is money well spent. I want to avoid buyer remorse. Getting answers to my questions is challenging in the mac world. it is as much art as it is science. I also do not have the time to wade through every thread, post, article or google/yahoo search when the info may be on the tip of someones tongue if i just asked.

TZ
09-30-2005, 01:27 PM
TZ

Would you suggest I call macguru to discuss my needs rather than posting here and trying to sort it out? I do not need to reinvent the wheel, just fix or improve the one I've got.

I apologize that you feel you need to resay what you might have already said before in another way. I hope you undersatand I just want to spend my money wisely and that I am not educated when it comes to computer hardware.

I take photographs for a living and just trying to keep up on that technology is challenging enough. I was up half the night going through different threads and posts and discussions trying to sort this all out. Maybe if I had found my answers I would not post anymore.

Maybe if I knew the answers I could avoid posting all together but I do not. I teach photography in NYC as well as be a working pro shooter and I often get the same questions over and over again, just a different camera and a different person. What is the best CF card, what is a depth of field, aperture. How do you get that movement thing happening in the backround. I often educate my clients even more than i feel i have to but the more they know the more they appreciate that the money they are spending is money well spent.

I want to avoid buyer remorse.

Getting answers to my questions is challenging in the mac world. it is as much art as it is science. I also do not have the time to wade through every thread, post, article or google/yahoo search when the info may be on the tip of someones tongue if i just asked. What I said, it wasn't directed at you or anyone. Only that what you are going through is accepted and normal. No. I felt after my first reply, that either you wouldn't be back; that the FAQs are a total failure. There is one thread, "Installing Hard Drives" that is pretty much the same play-by-play script. But, it was someone else's and their own way of trying to get a grasp on ATA vs SATA and other questions.

The goal is the same as yours: to educate, and to help someone see why this camera and lens is better than another for the type of work they hope to do. My own first attempts and foray into upgrading were expensive lessons. I want to avoid "buyer remorse/beware" research alone isn't enough, and never know all you needed, without also talking to people who have "been there, done that." Even, not knowing what question to ask.
________________

Over "in the background" we have been talking about the FAQs, about more tests for Photoshop performance testing, the MDD vs. G5 and the wisdom of how best to upgrade while having an eye on keeping it reasonable and that would fit into any future system. So it is all useful fodder.

At one time the only choice was SCSI. And if you ran Photoshop, you needed the best SCSI controller along with a set of 8 SCSI Cheetah 10K or 15K drives, which we could custom build, test, burn in, and ship a finished product, or the customer could buy the parts and build it on their own. A couple Burly cases, premium cables and drives, and $2K price tag probably. That was the "entry fee" if you will to high speed storage.

Today, there are more choices. A single drive that can do what 3-4 drives would offer. And 250-500GB drives for backup.

Shaving 2 seconds, or 20 seconds there in Photoshop can save hours. And what use to take a day in the past, can be done in an hour or two now on G5s.

TZ
09-30-2005, 01:27 PM
Just some ballpark guesstimates off the top of my head:

A pair of disk drives can run $200-300.
A controller can run $60-200.
External hot-swap case and drive trays for each drive $250?
A RAID of 2-4 drives can depends on a lot of factors.
A backup drive and case (FW800 hot swap or plain FW800; or SATA).

Right now, I think you have two ATA drives in your MDD and it isn't working as well as expected.

Left side ATA/66 bus:
Put the old OEM 60GB drive and new 120GB drive
Right side ATA/100 bus:
Is where I would put either Maxtor DM10 300GB or Hitachi T7K250 160 or 250GB drive for system.
And then, look at adding one more FW drive.
After that, come back and talk about how to get the most out of just that.

If I were to recommend anything, it would be to get one or two of the best ATA drives for your MDD, and one backup drive. Someone else might have a different recipe or advice. I don't think anyone I know can take it all in, and do it all in one step. For now, to just get your system running as smooth as it can, and have some kind of "emergency" program in place.
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xoshooter
09-30-2005, 01:51 PM
Thank you TZ for the rec's.

Does it make sense to put in a SATA int/ext card and use SATA drives inside where I would put the new ATA drives?

<A pair of disk drives can run $200-300.>

Internal ATA's?

<A controller can run $60-200.>

Firmtek model? 2+2 or should I consider more?

<External hot-swap case and drive trays for each drive $250? >

Firmtek SATA model?

<A RAID of 2-4 drives can depends on a lot of factors.>

I know there are a bunch of things to consider here. Is this an internal raid? Is the raid for speeding up or for safety or is that for me to decide?

<A backup drive and case (FW800 hot swap or plain FW800; or SATA).>

Is this a repeat from above for external hot swap drive and case or another addition?

I assume that I should clone my whole internal startup to an external backup before I do anything. I was thinking this also might be the time to upgrade to Tiger as well. Is there a specific thread for backup strategies or a website that explains for the laymen? I did not think I would every deal with backups except that this morning my cursor froze, I restarted with the hardware test disk and then got a folder with a question mark blinking and then I froze.

unclemac
09-30-2005, 02:00 PM
Right now, I think you have two ATA drives in your MDD and it isn't working as well as expected.

Left side ATA/66 bus:
Put the old OEM 60GB drive and new 120GB drive
Right side ATA/100 bus:
Is where I would put either Maxtor DM10 300GB or Hitachi T7K250 160 or 250GB drive for system.
And then, look at adding one more FW drive.
After that, come back and talk about how to get the most out of just that.

If I were to recommend anything, it would be to get one or two of the best ATA drives for your MDD, and one backup drive. Someone else might have a different recipe or advice. I don't think anyone I know can take it all in, and do it all in one step. For now, to just get your system running as smooth as it can, and have some kind of "emergency" program in place.


Sounds good to me. So all you need to add to start, is that one new fast/big drive TZ mentioned. Very cost effective, and all three of the these drives (one new plus two existing) can always be recycled into an external firewire case at any point, so good flexabilty and "scalabilty".

I do think you should take a look at Retropect when you get a chance, since you own it, for incremental backups of data. I too use CCC or Disk Utilty for making a clone (entire bootable copy of an OS and data, not just data). If Retrospect and CCC/DU don't do the job, or you don't feel comfortable with them, then we can move on to other options, such as those TZ mentioned.

Does that work?

M.Brane
09-30-2005, 06:42 PM
I assume that I should clone my whole internal startup to an external backup before I do anything. I was thinking this also might be the time to upgrade to Tiger as well. Is there a specific thread for backup strategies or a website that explains for the laymen? I did not think I would every deal with backups except that this morning my cursor froze, I restarted with the hardware test disk and then got a folder with a question mark blinking and then I froze.

Upgrading an unstable system is a recipe for trouble. Remember: one thing at a time. ;)

My setup is relatively slow compared to newer stuff, but it is stable/reliable. This is primarily because I always keep a clone of my known good system on my third drive. This enables me to immediately return the machine to a stable condition after doing any software installations/upgrades that go awry. It's also a lot faster to boot from a slow disk drive on a slow bus than to boot from a CD/DVD. After cloning my known good system to the third drive I'll burn a DVD of that system just in case.

Running disk utilities of any kind will be much faster off an internal HDD than CD/DVD. I do a thorough system maintenence routine (DU repair, permissions, TTP file/Finder, directory maint) anytime I install new software/updates or experience bad behavior. I also stopped "optimizing" my drives several years ago, and notice less problems. Don't know if there's anything to that, but when something works I go with it or without it as the case may be.

I don't trust automatic software update. I'll usually wait until I see other user reports before updating. I try to stay behind the bleeding edge of software. That's no guarantee that you won't have an issue since every system is a little different, but it improves the odds IMHO.

Sorry for the rambling, but the bottom line is you need to make sure your system is stable before you add anything. Software or hardware.

I should also add that my Mac never sleeps. The display is set to sleep after an hour, but the drives to never. The only time it gets shut down is if I'm gonna be away for more than a day, an electrical storm (rare here) or for hardware related stuff. It seems much happier this way.

xoshooter
10-12-2005, 03:14 PM
Okay, here is where I am.

Added a seritek 1VE2+2 pci card and a Raptor 74gb sata drive. Intiated drive, zeroed it out and used superduper to make a duplicate bootable copy of original drive.

I then used Macmeisters method to move users but was not logged in as ROOT which caused two aliases to appear on the Raptor drive and not certain if they can be trashed. I retried to move users as ROOT and I think it worked.

I not have the following configuration.

Raptor 74gb startup and OS/apps.
Seagate Barracude 7200.7 120gb partitioned in half with users on the first partition and nothing on the second
Original seagate 60gb has a bootable duplicate.

I have a few questions:

1. How do I know this worked? Is there a way to test my system for speed and that my user files are intact?
2. How do I add applications?
3. Is my setup optimised (with what I have) for photoshop CS2? Can I speed it up without a raid?
4. How do I backup? I have superduper and chronosync? My images are stored on an external fw800 drive.
5. When working on photos should they reside on the fw drive or kept internally on the seagate 120 first partition and then saved to the external fw drive? I now know not to batch to the same drive, let it open in one drive and save in another to speed things up.

6. What am I missing?

Many thanks.