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daveseeley
05-09-2005, 06:51 AM
My quad 15.3K cheetah raid scratch will occassionally give me a scratch disk error that is fatal, and pshop will quit after the message. I'm on Panther and PS7....will order CS2 today now that my deadline smoke has momentarily cleared.

Is this a scsi problem? Made sure I had the lattest drivers and flash for my UL4s card.

Still haven't taken the time to run the boots tests on this system.... Certainly wondering if nowadays an sata raid solution is more stable....and possibly close to as fast.

Thanks for any help.

Dave

kaye
05-09-2005, 07:10 AM
This ATTO comment about the UL4S might be germaine (especially what I boldfaced):

ATTO ExpressPCI UL4D and UL4S Flash Bundle Readme
The following flash bundles are available for the ExpressPCI UL4D and UL4S:
FlashBundle_2005_02_23.U320 - released 2/23/2005
FlashBundle_2004_03_19.U320 - released 3/19/2004

If you have received errors in the ATTO Configuration Tool when using FlashBundle_2005_02_23.U320, please use the following procedure to restore the flash:

Shutdown your system, wait 10 seconds, and reboot.
Open the ATTO Configuration Tool and verify you have the latest driver from the ATTO website installed. For Windows, it is version 1.20. For Mac OS X, it is version 3.30.
Download the ExpressPCI UL4D and UL4S flash bundle FlashBundle_2004_03_19.U320.
Update the adapter flash with this flash bundle using the ATTO Configuration Tool.
Shutdown your system, wait 10 seconds, and reboot.

If you have not experienced problems using FlashBundle_2005_02_23.U320, you may continue to use it. Typically, this will apply to those who purchased their adapter after 3/3/2005. If you purchased your adapter prior to 3/3/2005, please do not attempt to use FlashBundle_2005_02_23.U320. We are working on an upgrade solution.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

Might be the problem even if you are not having problems with the Config Tool. Personally I would not consider SATA over SCSI considering you have the latest SCSI, right? k

daveseeley
05-09-2005, 04:48 PM
Thanks Kaye,

My UL4S is older, so I did NOT install that flash. These errors have happened 3 times to me. Once was over a month ago, and the last two were within the week. The card/settup had not changed for several months prior to that with no issues. A bit mysterious...I was originally thinking some kind of scsi corruption, so that's why I checked for flash and config tool updates. I went from config 2.9 to the new 3.1 version.

On the scsi vs sata....it seems the speed of sata is getting close to scsi...??? and if so, maybe the voodoo of scsi is no longer worth the hassles....especially if Apple has abandoned the interface, and you're left with ATTO scrambling to hope they can keep up with compatible drivers.

Cheers

Dave


This ATTO comment about the UL4S might be germaine (especially what I boldfaced):

ATTO ExpressPCI UL4D and UL4S Flash Bundle Readme
The following flash bundles are available for the ExpressPCI UL4D and UL4S:
FlashBundle_2005_02_23.U320 - released 2/23/2005
FlashBundle_2004_03_19.U320 - released 3/19/2004

If you have received errors in the ATTO Configuration Tool when using FlashBundle_2005_02_23.U320, please use the following procedure to restore the flash:

Shutdown your system, wait 10 seconds, and reboot.
Open the ATTO Configuration Tool and verify you have the latest driver from the ATTO website installed. For Windows, it is version 1.20. For Mac OS X, it is version 3.30.
Download the ExpressPCI UL4D and UL4S flash bundle FlashBundle_2004_03_19.U320.
Update the adapter flash with this flash bundle using the ATTO Configuration Tool.
Shutdown your system, wait 10 seconds, and reboot.

If you have not experienced problems using FlashBundle_2005_02_23.U320, you may continue to use it. Typically, this will apply to those who purchased their adapter after 3/3/2005. If you purchased your adapter prior to 3/3/2005, please do not attempt to use FlashBundle_2005_02_23.U320. We are working on an upgrade solution.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

Might be the problem even if you are not having problems with the Config Tool. Personally I would not consider SATA over SCSI considering you have the latest SCSI, right? k

kaye
05-09-2005, 09:44 PM
More questions Dave.

Granite cables to the RAID and inside the RAID box? Granite terminator? Panther, but 10.3.9? Using Apple RAID or SoftRAID 3.1.3? k

daveseeley
05-13-2005, 07:38 AM
Sorry for the lag Kaye. Not Granite cables and terminator...but high quality stuff...Same speed specs as with an internal terminated cable u320 by Amphenol. Panther 10.3.8.... Apple Raid....as you can see, I didn't want to lay out the extra several hundred dollars....if I believed this wasn't the final solution.

Been having trouble getting the raid to mount at startup, but restart has been bringing it up. Might need to wait longer between switching the raid on and powering up the mac....though I don't recall this problem in the past. Should probably recheck my scsi connections in case something was jostled out of place.

Dave



More questions Dave.

Granite cables to the RAID and inside the RAID box? Granite terminator? Panther, but 10.3.9? Using Apple RAID or SoftRAID 3.1.3? k

TZ
05-13-2005, 07:57 AM
We have nice prices on cables and I won't use anything else for internal or termination. I've tried. Take a look. yes, it could run $160.

kaye
05-13-2005, 08:30 AM
I have to agree with TZ Dave. Not used anything but Granite cables and terminators. It seems that with later versions of Panther that SoftRAID is becoming more and more important. And now in Tiger its driver is installed by Apple I understand. TZ knows more about that.

At Macworld SFO last January, FirmTek demoed one of their new SATA 4-port cards with Maxtor MaxLine III drives. The Tech guy demoed SoftRAID vs DU AppleRAID in Panther, 10.3.8 I think it was. The AppleRAID would not consistently mount on cold startup nor on reboot. The SoftRAID was consistent for both. That's SATA of course, not SCSI, but who knows. I have used SoftRAID for a long time.

Yes definitely give your RAID more time before switching on the Mac. I have activity LEDs on my Burlys that tell when all drives are up to speed and ready as well as Granite External Diagnostic LEDs that tell me the same. The drives are not all ready to go simultaneously. Also the same for shutdown. Shutdown the Mac and wait until after it is completely shutdown then wait a few seconds longer before shutting down the RAID. You want whatever is still in the drives onboard cache to write back to the drives. k

TZ
05-13-2005, 08:48 AM
You might also want to look at finding if it is the same drive, and whether to do a low level on it. Disk Warrior 3.03 may have better RAID support, and something I run regularly at first hint of trouble - but only after giving Disk Utility a shot.

I see that Apple posted a note yesterday, the 10.3.9's Disk Utility has changed from earlier versions. Was in reference to what is safe to use to diagnose and repair disks with Tiger, and that even 10.3.8 was not.

With external box, it can take 3-5 minutes and not just to spin-up, but for the drives to reach their normal operating temperature. Changes in temperature are harmful to disk platters, no matter what interface, but 15K drives have more stress put on them, which is why it was the 15K Cheetah that first got fluid bearings, and not the 10K (which they didn't want to mess with unless they had to) as well as vibration. Every vendor has to do something to deal with both heat and vibration to reduce their effects.

Heck, every so often I have to go in and make sure every screw is held down, that a jumper hasn't worked its way off.