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uli
03-16-2005, 12:14 PM
Hi there,

Quark 6.x has a feature that I look for in InDesign.
The ability to create different layouts, in one project.

For one client I create at least 6 different newspaper ads per month. Same content, different size. In Quark, I can create a project, save it as Client/Month/, and keep all different ads nicely organized in various tabs.

Is there any way in Indesign 2.0 or may be in CS (don't have yet) that I can create a project using 6 different layout properties (eg. 3colx5 or 4colx6 etc.) all in one file.

Once I figure that out, Quark can go fly....
Hints and suggestions are appreciated.

Uli

eric
03-16-2005, 01:01 PM
Uli,

I think that the answer is 'no' to that one.

Take a look at this monster comparison (http://www.indesignusergroup.com/chicago/chi_notes/chi_notes_2004/chi_notes_2004_01_15/IDCS_vs_Q6_comparison.pdf). Search through it and only Quark has it. It's one of the things in Quark's favor noted here (http://www.creativepro.com/story/feature/19879.html?origin=story).

Nicolas
03-16-2005, 01:06 PM
Hello Uli,

why you want to switch from QXP to ID?

Regards

Nicolas

uli
03-16-2005, 02:05 PM
why you want to switch from QXP to ID?



Both programs have their pros and cons. In my mind I switched long time ago to ID. However, I have to use both, (and I know both, which makes things easier). Thought a "project feature" like in QXP could help make a complete switch to ID, but I guess I'll keep QXP, just for the sake of having all these ads nicely organized and a certain amount of laziness.
The publishers use mainly PDF/PDF-X workflow, therefore it doesnt make too much difference which program produces the final PDF. But honestly, I like ID much better. I probably would have taken the time to convert all QXP files to ID in case such a feature would have existed. Anyway, Thanks for your reply.

Uli :D

Nicolas
03-16-2005, 03:57 PM
QXP and ID, both have some features the other don't have, good to have both.

At work I am using QXP5 and ID2 but mostly QXP (using it since 3.11).
All companys I worked for had QXP and ID(prior PageMaker)/3B2/Framemaker/Creator.
Best thing on QXP, there are many Xtensions for almost everything.

Regards

Nicolas

TZ
03-29-2005, 08:51 AM
From today's MacIntouch (www.macintouch.com) comes this horror story:
Readers report an insanely irresponsible action apparently taken by a QuarkXpress installer:

[Fred Moore] Braindead software installers can leave your Mac open to all sorts of outside attacks or user screw ups. I recently had to recover and reinstall a client's G5 because of a problem unrelated to permissions, but narrowed down a persistant perms error after reinstalling software.

An installer for one of the major Mac graphics apps changed the 'others' permissions on EVERY (as far as I can tell) system file from read-only (r--) to open access (rwx)! The system was wide open; several thousand file perms had to be reset. I had seen this same problem several times before, but this was the first time I was able to narrow down the culprit. I won't name names because I still don't know exactly which major graphics app it was.

[Kalani Patterson] Our tech dept has verified the following: Installing Quark 6.1 on a 10.3.x system (I can't speak for other versions) results in thousands of changed permissions. We captured a logfile from such a repair, which weighed in as a whopping 9.9MB plain text file... opening the file in Word resulted in over 4,000 pages of corrections!

It seems the idiotic Quark installer manages to reset every single program on the drive to world read-write-executable (chmod 777). Ditto after installing the 6.5 updater. Lesson learned: With Quark, repair your permissions before and after each installation and update!

unclemac
03-29-2005, 09:18 AM
ARGGGGGGGGG!!!!

In the words of Monty Python's King Arthur, "Run away!"

That is nuts. Let me state for the record: I hate Quark.

Nicolas
03-29-2005, 09:58 AM
ARGGGGGGGGG!!!!

In the words of Monty Python's King Arthur, "Run away!"

That is nuts. Let me state for the record: I hate Quark.

There was a time Quark could do anything.
Worst to no support
Costly updates wich would not fix the issues
You can't save your documents in a lower version (thanks there was Markzware).

But, now the situation has changed :D

Regards

Nicolas

eric
03-29-2005, 11:49 AM
Let me state for the record: I hate Quark. Me too. I kind of have to use it at work v6, because that's what the designer used to layout catalogs and newsletter. So we ended up with it on Windows. :mad: Of course our printer is using v4, and we can't save down.

Even worse, I found out real quickly that Windows and Macs encode cyrillic characters differently, and Quark Passport -- standard version -- doesn't take that into account. All I see is garbage on the screen, so I can't even edit the text on Windows box. Typical Quark support reply, "you need a special version of Quark for cyrillic -- contact our distributor in Russian." My reply, "look, I don't really need hyphenation and paragraph cyrillic support, I just need to *see* the characters". No one listended when I said we should get a Mac for fewer headaches since the designer and printer use...Macs.

My latest grip is they sent a Quark Service Plan postcard to me. $100 off if ordered by a certain day, but I had pre-sales questions. I emailed, and they sent a reply back 3 weeks later, 2 weeks past the deadline. They asked whether I already had coverage, my reply "pre-sales question for the offer, but since I didn't receive a timely reply don't bother."

Nicolas
03-29-2005, 12:11 PM
Eric,

there are some Russian, Greek, Turkish PS Type1 fonts wich can be used on Mac and Win. Available through www.FontShop.com but costly.

Regards

Nicolas

eric
03-29-2005, 12:19 PM
Nicolas,

Thanks for the info. I was using Type 1 fonts, but it's not the fonts themselves, but how the OSes encode those non-ASCII characters -- differently.

The fonts themselves work, it's just that the characters (encoding) get trapped on a particular platform. For example, I had a pdf of the document created on the Mac, where the cyrillic characters appear properly (on both platforms). If I copy the cyrillic text from the pdf into Quark Windows, all is good. Now if I open that Quark doc on the Mac (I was using the Quark Trial of v6 to test), garbage on the Mac side. But if I create a pdf with Quark Windows; open the pdf on the mac where the cyrillic characters appear properly; then copy the text in Quark Mac...presto all is good. Actually totally lame if you're working with large sections of text, or even a lot of little pieces. I just gave up, the printer has the final say/edit of the cyrillic.

I also tried using OpenType fonts that have cyrillic characters, e.g. Adobe Helvetica, but still the same problem.

uli
03-29-2005, 12:31 PM
Hey Nicholas,

and you were asking why I want to switch to ID?????
Is there a better reason??

Remember my issues with Kernel Panics? (see http://www.macgurus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20000 in Troubleshooting forum)
Seeing the info above, I wonder whether I should get rid of Quark all together and NEVER look back. I have a couple of projects pending which are created in QXP and too big to redo in ID without having the customer pay mega bucks... But once they're out of the door, you better believe what I do with Quark. (_(#^)%#)#^&_@)

just my 2 cents

--Uli :mad:

uli
03-29-2005, 12:34 PM
Maybe one you guys has close connections to Adobe and can find out whether InDesign in the CS-2.0 due in May has something like the project feature. All threads talk about enhancements in Photoshop, but what's about the other 4 apps???

--Uli

Nicolas
03-29-2005, 12:35 PM
Eric,

if you have the same PS font on the PC as on the Mac all is well.
Looks like you don't have the same fonts on Win and Mac or the PC or the Mac is using font substitution.

If you create an PDF on the PC the Font is embedded in the PDF.
If you open the PDF on the Mac it uses the embedded font,
the same happens vice versa.

We had those problems too.
After buying the same font for the PC and the Mac those "funny characters" disappeared and the QXP-Doc could be used on Mac and Win.

With Illustrator or Indesign you don't have those issues cuz you can embed the fonts in the document. A big plus.

Regards

Nicolas

eric
03-29-2005, 12:46 PM
Nicolas,

No font substitution, the same font on both systems. Particularly with the OpenType font since it's the same darn font/files.

The font tables are different on the two systems, and Quark has lousy Unicode support (probably none) which would help with this problem. You'll get a taste of it here (http://www.friends-partners.org/partners/rusmac/wordproc.html). The same problem infects Word vX. Haven't tried 2004 yet to see if you can work cross platform.

Yes the fonts are embedded in the pdf. But Adobe is smarter, encoding of the fonts gets tagged. At least when you go and look at the font info, you can see whether it was originally Mac or Windows. Makes all the difference once you're outside of ASCII.

Nicolas
03-29-2005, 01:19 PM
Hey Nicholas, and you were asking why I want to switch to ID????? Is there a better reason??

Well, we also have doc's made with QXP and they get little updates two or three times a year also the client would not pay for a complete redo in ID.

InDesign 1.0/1.5 was pretty slow but, by now, with ID CS on a G5 at work, I love to do my layouts using it.

If you already have both, you can choose wich App is better for a project.
And there are some Xtensions wich are not available for ID yet.

We only have one Mac running QXP 6.5 just to be compatible cuz some designers using it.

Most of the "exposure only" jobs get done by using PDF-X.

I must state that I never like PageMaker so the only way was QXP (using it since 3.11). Adobe did a great job on ID and Quark is no longer "King of the hill". And yes, I hate Quark since version 6 but, 3.3.2r5 to 5 was OK ;)

Regards

Nicolas

Nicolas
03-29-2005, 01:26 PM
Particularly with the OpenType font

You are using QXP6 in OSX right.

We are using QXP 4.1 and 5 in OS9 mainly.
The designer is using QXP 4 on Win 2k maybe thats the difference.

Regards

Nicolas

Nicolas
03-29-2005, 01:35 PM
Eric,

thanks for the link.
Russian and turkish text made in M$ word on a PC will not work on a Mac.
Had to go the PDF way too.

But how could it be that the document from the designer is ok on the Mac.
The only thing is if she is using a Xtension wich is correcting the doc before using it on a Mac.

I will ask her tomorrow to make it clear.

Regards

Nicolas

eric
03-29-2005, 01:41 PM
Nicolas,

I use v6.5 on Windows at work. When I was testing on my Mac I used the trial of v6.1 in OS X.

Our designer has the luxury of v6, v5, and v4 for the Mac. So for our printer (who has a Mac), he can save down to v4, for any last minute corrections.

While I can't see the cyrillic in Windows (for the Quark doc originally created on a Mac), as long as I don't touch it the text is o.k. So I can edit the non-cyrillic text and save it in Windows quark. When reopened on the Mac, the cyrillic appears as it should unharmed. But the pictures get downsided in the process, oh the joys of cross-platform work, particularly bad with Quark.

TZ
03-30-2005, 09:53 AM
Adobe isn't without sin either. The idea that you need to have a minimum of 3rd party software, limitation of 2GB RAM and even Tiger won't really allow more than 4GB... but what I just read is just... the whole software business and DMR - but apparently, Adobe doesn't support a boot RAID mirror.
Adobe activation conflicting with RAID set-ups A number of users are reporting issues between Adobe's product activation scheme (used by various applications including InDesign and Acrobat) and RAID hard drive configurations.


RAID configurations store data simultaneously across several drives to provide increased speed or redundancy for backup purposes. Because several volumes are used, Adobe's activation scheme apparently assumes that the users is illegally attempting to install multiple copies of the application on different machines.


PDFZone, one publication covering the issue, says:


"Adobe's activation scheme mistook (a user's) Level 1 RAID system—a scheme in which a system stores data on multiple hard drives simultaneously for backup or increased speed—as an attempt to install Acrobat on multiple computers.

"An Adobe customer-service representative told the customer that he'd have to get a volume license for Acrobat Pro. After a visit to the Adobe Web site, he did the math: The change would entail at minimum one of the following: 10 Acrobat 7 Pro upgrade licenses; four new Acrobat 7 Pro single-user boxes; or 15 Acrobat 7 Standard upgrade licenses to meet the minimum of 1,500 points required.

"In the least-cost scheme, this represented an outlay of $1,200 to $1,500—just to enable him to use a single copy of Acrobat 7 on his machine."
- www.macintouch.com

eric
03-30-2005, 10:44 AM
Yeah TZ, I know Adobe's not perfect and their apps have their own issues and quirks with installation and workflow.

It's just that Quark drove me nuts for weeks, with tech support giving me canned answers at first before finally trying to help. No resolution. Had it been done in InDesign (or even on Quark Mac), I suspect there wouldn't have been a problem.

Nicolas
03-30-2005, 01:11 PM
Eric,

I called the designer today. She was using an App called FontIncluder (250 Euros). One year ago, she bought a Mac, so no issues anymore ;).

Here is a link to Markzware they have a lot of free Xtensions (like PasteBoardXT ;) ) for QXP:
http://www.markzware.com/freebies/

Here is a link for FontIncluder:
http://www.thepowerxchange.com/flipster_1101_prd1.html

Regards

Nicolas

TZ
03-30-2005, 03:14 PM
[George Sutherland] I believe readers previously reported on MacInTouch that the Quark 6.1 and 6.5 installers make widespread permissions changes on a 10.3x disk. I've discovered that it actually modifies the permissions of whatever folder Quark is being installed into.

So, if you let it install into the default Applications folder, it will modify the permissions of the entire contents of Applications, even the files WITHIN packages such as iTunes, which accounts for the VERY long repair log.

  The solution is to direct the installer to install Quark into its own folder at the root level of the disk (ie, not in Applications) and then later move the Quark folder to Applications manually.

Repairing disk permissions after installing this way shows no unusual permissions modification, at least for me, repeated on multiple computers.

almaink
03-31-2005, 07:34 AM
You know it's funny but I had no permission changes on either of my two Macs that I installed Quark 6 on. The program IMO is still not ready for prime time but I'm forced to use it as we have to support our customer base.