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azoth
07-20-2004, 02:10 PM
I am considering buying one of these for general use with both text and photoshop aps. I would appreciate any advice, experiences, etc. If someone has a better suggestion for a large LCD monitor, please advise.

Thanks,

Robert

Wizzard501
07-20-2004, 03:05 PM
Well I've got a 192N - which I love. Like having my face in a TV. Excellent color. I thought I heard somewhere though that Samsung had decided not to keep in the gauntlet of having to develop new drivers every time Apple changes OSs. I may be mistaken about that. Certianly, 10.3.4 recognizes it at once. No need to fiddle.

TZ
07-21-2004, 03:27 AM
I read it was out of the Mac market, then saw on MacIntouch that they are in again :confused:

Seems that they don't like having to keep hacking printer drivers mainly?

I have been happy with ViewSonic. Of course Apple has a couple LARGE and not so large monitors. LCD for text, CRT for color? Sometimes two is better than one. 21" CRTs are now ~$600 range and excellent - but huge footprint. But half the price of a good 20" LCD.

azoth
07-21-2004, 06:00 AM
I have a nice 19 inch crt, but, after having some eye problems, I am beginning to worry about sitting a couple of feet from an electron gun for hours at a stretch. I've decided to go either 19, 20, or 21 LCD, and hope for pros and cons from experienced users.

TZ
07-21-2004, 06:20 AM
The latest ViewSonic P225-3 $636 @ Zone.com has TCO 2003, low emissions, and great resolution and refresh rate, along with a lot of video bandwidth which also helps feed data to the monitor.

LCDs are good and getting better at color resolution. And you see a lot of Apple Cinema Displays in use in video production and advertising ;-)

My CRT at 90 MHz is nice, and even though only 19" it does support 1600x1200 but 1344x1008 is the most I can use if I want to work with web pages and text. You can spend $1799 for 21" LCDs. What I didn't like about Apple's was I needed more than the vertical resolution to see a web page. And LCDs are fixed so you can't really see something and how it would look at other resolutions.

What video card do you use now, and what Mac?

azoth
07-21-2004, 09:45 AM
Have a mac g4 450 sawtooth, but I just bought (and will take delivery of next week) a bunch of stuff to upgrade it, including:

G-celerator cpu upgrade to 1.3 Ghz
Western Digital Caviar 160GB SATA drive
Pioneer DVR drive

and two video cards:

Nvidia GeForce2 MX400 64mb

and:

Radeon 7000 AGP 32MB


I live in a remote part of Mexico where Mac components of any kind are not to be found. Ordering them is very expensive since they are subject to 41 percent duty (based on list price), to say nothing of shipping and insurance.

So, since I am planning a trip to the States next week, I ordered all the upgrade items sent to my son's address in Seattle, where I will pick them up and carry them down personally.

If you wonder why I just bought two video cards, here is the reason:

I first bought the Nvidia card on ebay where the description said it would work well in my mac. Then, advice on this site said that the card had to be a PC card that had been flashed and so might be iffy. Further, I read about one of these cards being used in a 2x AGP mac like mine, and the user said there was a slight flicker in the video which he attributed to using a 4x card in a 2x slot.

Fearing that I would get the card down here and find it useless, I bought the Radeon card which is a mac card, and is 2x. Neither card, by the way has digital output. If I had it to do over again, I would have spent the money to get a card with digital output that would work in my mac (if there is such an animal--anyone know?).


This also explains why an upgrade (even an expensive one) is preferable to simply buying a G5 or later G4. I'll get the upgrade items through customs at the airport with no hassle, but an entire computer would cost big. When I brought my G4 down in 2001, I paid almost 900 bucks in duty.

As for the LCD monitor, it just emerged that a pal of mine is driving to the US and back, and is willing to carry down a monitor for me. He has a way of crossing the border without the formalities. If I had known this a few weeks ago, I might have considered a new Mac, but I'm sure I will love the upgraded sawtooth. And a big LCD monitor will be a pleasure.

Long winded explanation, but I hope interesting to all of you who can simply get the tools you require by UPS or at the neighborhood Mac shop.

By the way, this is why the monitor suggestion is so important to me--I will be choosing it sight unseen.

Thank,

Robert

TZ
07-21-2004, 10:21 AM
Hum... 75 lbs. CRT would be kind of hard then ;)

There was a Mac Radeon 7000 PCI, but not AGP. There was a 7500 maybe. The 8500 AGP is one of the better choices. So it sounds like the video card stuff might be a PC-card flash job? not Mac card. Any Radeon Mac in the last 3 yrs or more has had DVI also.

Maybe an ultra-light laptop would be nice, say 17" PB G4 1.5. :D
Otherwise, seems like you have taken that Sawtooth to the next level.

unclemac
07-21-2004, 12:06 PM
Hi Azoth,

From what I can read, the GeForce2 MX400 (Mac edition) has one VGA and ADC connector, and can run two monitors, so you would not need the Radeon 7000 PCI, although maybe good to have as a backup considering your logistical problems...

The ADC port is digital, but only plugs into Apple displays. But for about 30 bucks you can get an ADC to VGA converter - simple cable, no software - and be able to run two VGA monitors.

Here is the part. (http://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?code=0117-ADCV) We buy them at the local Mac repair store, or you can get em on line in a pinch. Have them on about 6 G4s and G5s at work, and all have been perfect on several different ADC cards and differnet monitors - both CRT and LCD.

Hope that helps...

As for LCD monitors, have liked all the Viewsonic and Samsung models I have seen... Bought about 10 from a company by the name of CTX that everybody loves, and some of the users are monitor snobs... Like this. (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=231879)

Which ever you choose, verifiy the ports, although I don't think I have seen a monitor yet that was DVI only - with no VGA.


He has a way of crossing the border without the formalities

I don't want to know.... :rolleyes:

TZ
07-23-2004, 11:11 AM
Matt Snider reviews a less expensive alternative to Apple's new Cinema Display:

I found a $420 cheaper solution to Apple's new 23" LCD panel with the exact specifications (in fact, it's the same panel, built in the same factory) that has three times the warranty, an on-site warranty to boot, it's pivotable (if software ever becomes available to allow that), it's RT HD compliant, self-configuring with an Apple-supplied color profile in Mac OS X 10.3.3 and you can get it now!

Hewlett-Packerd, that love 'em and hate 'em where-the-Mac's-concerned company, has two brand-new and very under-advertised models: the L2035 and the L2335. They are easily located in HP's business web store or in their technical information on-line merely by searching on the model numbers.

Though the L2035 is not 16:9 format, the L2335 most definitely IS. I'm staring at one at this moment. The L2035 was reviewed in PCWorld in February, 2004 and given very high marks for sharpness, color accuracy and fidelity, response rate and on other measures. The L2335 matches and then exceeds it.

The L2335 is a spot-on match to virtually every specification that Apple lists for their 23" panel, but HP's contrast ratio is 500:1, better than's Apple's 400:1. HP's documentation says that the nit ratio is 250:1, rather than Apple's 270:1 for its 23 inch display. I wouldn't doubt that the nit ratio is the same on the HP panel as on Apple's but I couldn't find any conclusive info on it. Keep checking HP's site.

I have an ATI Radeon 9000 Pro Mac Edition video card in my G4/450 Sawtooth upgraded with a GigaDesigns 800MHz processor card clocked at 900MHz and my Mac is running 10.3.3. The DVI cable that was supplied with the L2335 worked flawlessly out of the box. The monitors pane in the System Preferences reports (as it should), that the display is sync'd to my video card at exactly 1920 x 1200 @ 60Hz. It is as razor sharp as any of Apple's LCD's, new or older model. In addition, the color tab in the monitors pane automatically displayed (because it didn't download it) a color profile with the hp L2335 label.

The only things missing are Apple's brushed aluminum metal housing, a power brick (this display is direct power cord to the back), firewire and usb (I already have hubs), Apple's lousy 1 year warranty (unless you want to pay $245 for Applecare, whether you buy a new CPU or not)... and, HP's warranty is on-site! [...]

unclemac
07-23-2004, 11:46 AM
Nice.

BTW, a coworker just bought one of the new 23" Apple monitors, and holy crap that thing great! :kickass:

azoth
07-23-2004, 12:47 PM
Hi, Friends, and thanks for all the great info.

Unclemac, I am sure the GeForce2 MX400 is a flashed card, since it has only one VGA out, and nothing else. I imagine that with that card plus the Radeon 7000 32MB (which also must be flashed since it has one VGA out plus one S-video out--not the mac card configuration) , I ought to be able to get something going. By the way, are these two cards more or less equivalent, or is one superior?

Another question: Would the S-Video out work better than VGA if the monitor had an S-Video input like the HP models that TZ mentioned?

TZ. thanks for steering me towards the HP monitors. Questions:

1. Why is the 16:9 format better (if it is)? Or, to ask this another way, the L2335 seems to be selling for around $1800, while the L2035 is going for around $1000. What would spending the additional money get me?

2. The L2035 (20"), the Viewsonic (20") and the Samsung 231T (21") all sell for around the same $1000 figure. I wonder if anyone out there has enough experience with them to state a definite preference. Remember, I will have to buy this monitor sight unseen, so any informed advice would be extremely helpful. BTW, warantee means little. Once I have the item down here, I am pretty much on my own.

3. Is the Radeon 9000 Pro Mac Edition a current model? If so, where can I get one? I have not found one online.

Thanks all,

Robert

TZ
07-23-2004, 03:15 PM
I don't see why you cannot find Radeon 9000 is current, has DVI and VGA I think (no ADC?) and 128MB DRAM. www.maczone.com and www.macsales.com both offer it for $149. I would get rid of or sell those PC Radeons to your PC friends and NOT use them in your Mac.

ViewSonic makes a good monitor.

16:9 is probably the aspect for DVD widescreen rather than 4:3 aspect ratio of CRTs.

azoth
07-23-2004, 04:58 PM
TZ--

I did find the card with your help. Thanks.

Also, I checked some online reviews of the HP L2035, and liked what I read.

Then, I wrote to HP, asking about Mac compatibility. This is what I got back (please comment):


Dear Robert,

I see that you would like to know if the L2035 LCD Monitor is compatible
with Mac software. The monitor is not been tested by HP for Mac
softwares, hence the the monitor might not work
properly without installing the compatible drivers. There are no MAC
drivers for the monitor, the monitor only is compatible with Windows 98,
ME, XP, 2000 OS.

You can download the drivers for windows OS from the following URL :

http://tinyurl.com/6hxk5

If you need further assistance we will be glad to assist you.

Sincerely,

John
HP Total Care
:crossbne: :crossbne: :crossbne:

rwm
07-23-2004, 05:36 PM
My Quicksilver 733 came with a stock nVidia GeForce2 MX400 32MB AGP card and has one VGA and ADC but I understood it to only drive 1 monitor so I purchased a Radeon 9000 Pro (Mac edition) but have yet to add another monitor. :(

Looks like you have some great upgrade goodies.

azoth
07-23-2004, 07:21 PM
Yes. I am looking forward to installing all that high-tech stuff in my three year old mac which, although it was called a "supercomputer" and supposedly was banned export from when I bought it, now feels slow. Kinda like Christmas morning, especially since the goodies are already delivered and just waiting for me to arrive and bring them home with me.

So, if I understand what you wrote, TZ, a Radeon 9000 will work well in my 450 sawtooth, and should drive the HP L2035 monitor with no hassle. Is this correct?

R.

azoth
07-23-2004, 09:27 PM
Just a bit more on whether or not the HP L2035--which looks like the best choice for me--really is compatible with Mac:

I found these specs:

http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/11869_ca/11869_ca.HTML

which refer to "mac mode" showing a resolution of 1152 x 870 @ 75 Hz and 832 x 624 @ 75 Hz.

I am wondering if "mac mode" refers to Macintosh, and if resolution really is limited to those two values.

The email I quoted earlier from HP says that HP does not offer support for Mac users of this monitor, so I am concerned.

Does anyone know for sure that this monitor will work well with my Mac (assuming a Radeon 9000 card)?

R.

TZ
07-24-2004, 05:08 AM
Go back and read what I posted earlier, or read the original on www.macintouch.com