View Full Version : The IBM PowerPC 970 rumor news

05-22-2003, 07:00 AM
BusinessWeek Will This Be the Summer of Mac? (http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/may2003/tc20030521_2871_tc056.htm) MacRumors forum 122 message thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/) debates the pros and cons of yet another unconfirmed "leak."

Update: The article has been edited with the following correction/retraction:

"IBM did not confirm it was building a chip specifically for Apple, but it does say its new PowerPC chip will work on Apple platforms"

And, "I doubt Apple legal would be so quick to request a correction to the article if the 970 would not be used in Apple products." MacRumors (http://www.macrumors.com/)

Click here to search Google PowerPC 970 (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=PowerPC+%2B+970&btnG=Google+Search).

[This message was edited by Gregory on Mon June 16, 2003 PT at 12:23.]

05-22-2003, 07:13 AM
?Guess I won't sell my shares of Apple and buy Dell. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


05-27-2003, 05:18 AM
MacBidouille claims that the first 970 PowerPC mnachines are assembled, stacked and ready to be shipped to resellers. According to the article, the boxes are also sealed with a tamper proof seal with warnings not to open before June 23rd.

There have been conflicting rumors regarding the availability of 970 machines. This rumor would indicate immediate availability at/after WWDC's Keynote.

- G.

05-30-2003, 05:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> *Single 1.4GHz, Dual 1.6GHz, and Dual 1.8GHz processor configurations

*Twin banks of DDR400 SDRAM memory for a combined effective clock of 800MHz....thanks to the 970's impressive new frontside bus, the processor(s) can take full advantage of this -- unlike the present DDR architecture which is hobbled by a single-rate frontside bus. Total of six or eight DIMM memory slots; sources have most recently been suggesting six.

*AGP 8X slot, four PCI slots; PCI Express has often been mentioned, but there has been no firm confirmation of anything beyond the 64-bit/33MHz slots used in existing systems.

*ATA-133 storage bus - Serial ATA is possible, and we hope it will be included, but sources suggest S-ATA will have to wait for the next generation of systems due to technical issues and a surprising lack of demand from users according to Apple's market research.

*Two Firewire 400 ports and one Firewire 800
*Dual-channel USB 2.0
*Combo Drive or Superdrive, with support for two internal Superdrives
*Airport Extreme support, Gigabit Ethernet, 56k modem
*NVIDIA GeForce FX and ATi Radeon 9X00 series graphics cards
*New keyboard and mouse

*New audio-out options including support for digital surround sound. Dolby 5.1 or 7.1 have been frequently discussed, but details have yet to be confirmed by any source willing to speak to us.

*New connectors added to Apple Pro Speaker jack (reasons unknown) - but may be related to a second-generation iPod dock that would allow a new generation of Apple Pro Speakers to be used directly with a docked iPod, and would add other new features.

*New enclosure which will continue to use the basic minitower with handles on all four corners that we have seen since the Blue G3 -- but the underlying concept will be all that we'll recognize.

More angular handles, a narrower and smaller overall enclosure, lots of bare metal, and only a hint of transparent plastic to be seen....more on this soon, as we have seen some mind-blowing prototype enclosures on the grapevine recently.

www.macosrumors.com (http://www.macosrumors.com) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I can tell that no one asked any MacGurus members if they think S-ATA ought to be included! Folks on Storage Review are dying to get their hands on SATA PCI cards now that the WD Raptor is out.

05-30-2003, 04:56 PM
Well, Gregory,

first of all, I would like to thank you for bringing up this topic. It isn't that easy to bring it up on the Apple forums: the G5 PowerPC seems to still be a top secret argument over there and (quite rightly, if I may add) they don't like much having speculations over it in an official Apple sight.

In a recent interview Peter Glaskowsky (http://www.mdronline.com/analysts/peterg/peterg.html) was stating that the most important problem with the G4 architecture [referring also to the G4 logic board architecture] is the old Front System Bus, that is that part of the processor which allows data to be transfered from the memory banks to the CPU for further processing, and then the other way round. Glaskowsky sustains that it is the same bus Motorola created with the first G4s. Due to this, Power Macs are four times slower than the new Intel Pentium counter part; this explains why recent benchmarks have not shown significant progresses when Apple introduced the new DDR memory.
The new Pentium 4, clocking at 3.02GHz wears a FSB that clocks at 533MHz, capable to move up to 4.3GB of data per second. The G4 clocking at 1.42GHz has a FSB that clocks at 167MHz which, at best, can move only up to 1.3GB of data per second.
The G4's FSB cannot even use the full band speed offered by modern DDR RAM (about 2.7GB/sec), introduced on the new top end PowerMacs.
Glaskowsky goes on explaining that this is a major problem as most software applications are mainly concerned on the CPU to Memory data transfers; it is here that L3 cache becomes important. Thanks to the large amount of L3 cache provided by the G4, performance issues are somewhat compensated. But the slow frequency speed of the G4 FSB remains a real "bottleneck", which hampers the processor performance when confronted with the competition.

When the present famaly of G4 processors reached the 1GHz clocking speed, Motorola promised new frequency speeds improvements soon; however, those came only partially and at a much slower pace compared to what Intel did.
Glaskowsky said in his article (which I have found in an Italian web site, but it was a brief [it was out for just a week], free translation from the Microprocessor (http://www.mdronline.com/mpr/index.html) Magazine), that the difference is that Intel can deploy much more resources to processors R&D than Motorola, IBM and Apple put together.
Last year Motorola announced the G5 processor to its clients for the embedded market; however, after one full year there is no sign of them on the horizon.
Meanwhile IBM has announced its PowerPC 970. This procesoor is based on Power4 (thanks Gregory!! That link you've provided me speaks about IBM's servers layout; I need to discover the embedded architecture of Power4 now, .... still diggin'), which is used by IBM on it's servers, and since its first release it should clock at 1.8GHz. This isn't going to impress many users, but, more significantly it has another characteristic: it wears a FSB capabale of moving 6.4GB of data per second. Furthermore the 970 has a SIMD installed which uses the same set of instructions of AltiVec: that means those applications which use the G4 architecture, like for example Photoshop, will have the same benefits also under the 970. Lastly, but certainly not in order of importance, the 970 has been developped to be a 64-bit processor.
The move to a 64-bit architecture will be able to double the 970 efficiency compared to the present PowerPC chip generation and even compared to Intel's CPUs, even if this will come at a price: to fully employ this new characteristics, applications will need to be re-written. Thankfully and wisely, IBM has engineered the 970 so as to make it backword compatible so as it can handle 32-bit applications.
When Apple will implement this new processor, it will also need to develop a new way for its firmware to handle memory addressing and will also need to introduce some changes in OSX; however, the whole process will result completely transparent to developpers and end users.
And what about the G5? Always according to Glaskowsky, the delay with which it will be introduced does not entirely depend on Motorola's financial problems, rather on technical ones. However, Glaskowsky is sure that Apple will use the new processors within the end of this year (Apple is waiting on Motorola as it doesn't whant to depend on IBM 100%).

Greg Titus (http://people.omnigroup.com/toon/resume.html) has some other theories about the possible choise Apple could confront for moving a step further on the hardware ladder, but I don't think Steve Jobs would or will likely move towards AMD or Intel processors and architecture, despite the famous OpenDarwin policy.

Hope the above sounded interesting and helped clarify a few technical issues.


05-30-2003, 11:40 PM

You might want to add ChipGeek (http://www.geek.com/procspec/procmain.htm) and then IBM News and Products. (http://www.ibm.com/products/us/) I think the POWER series is interesting. The IBM IntelliStation might be the dream machine for some.

The POWER4+ and POWER5 would be nice if IBM can successfully "shrink-wrap" it into the 970, 980 and 990 series. As for "only" 1.4 GHz, there are a lot of examples of other 64-bit servers that are 'only' in that range for now (but 4-way and dual core) or even less.

06-02-2003, 05:28 AM
June 01, 2003 - Apple's Prices On PPC 970 Ensure Motorola Departure
MacWhispers (http://www.envestco2.com/macwhispers/archives/000070.php)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>We have received some tantalizing information over the past few days on the prices being given to Apple by IBM on the PPC 970 microprocessors now being engineered into Power Mac and Powerbook motherboards. We are in a delicate position as to what we may publish on this topic, but have decided that a very basic statement is permissible. Essentially, the PPC 970 family of chips is about 25% to 35% less costly to Apple than the latest family of Motorola G4 chips... a fact which, we believe, speaks volumes about the likely adoption of the new 970-based machine architecture in Apple's product line.

While the cost of the microprocessor itself is not the major expense in building a computer, it is certainly a significant factor in the overall cost of Apple's products. And, with the PPC 970 chip line offering some multiple of the G4 chip family's performance, and at one-third less cost, we believe that many of the speculative stories now making the rounds will prove out to be false; specifically, we see little or no future at Apple for any Motorola chip. In fact, several knowledgeable Apple OEM channel sources have hinted that Apple is aggressively reengineering every product in the lineup to adopt IBM chips as soon as possible. Word is that this across the board transition could be completed by as soon as Spring of 2004.

In other words, the idea that the PPC 970 (and soon to arrive 980) will somehow coexist with the G4 in a variety of Apple hardware lines just doesn't seem to be realistic. Everything we have been told points to a rapid adoption of IBM as Apple's sole chip supplier, with all models, from the lowly iBook to the top of the line pro machines using Big Blue's processors... 970's, 980's, Gobi's... possibly with every machine running some variant of the 970/980 family within as little time as the next 9 to 12-months.

It seems that in addition to beating Motorola's processor performance, IBM is demolishing Motorola's pricing, as well. And, from Apple's view, that makes for an offer too sweet to resist.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

06-03-2003, 06:53 AM
Trying not to get my hopes up, but I sure hope the bit about lower cost is true!

And now for something completely different...

"IBM 64-bit PowerPC 970 microprocessor chip with feathers"

Chip with features (http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/photolibrary/photo10.nsf/WebViewNumber/78F931E26C393F0587256C530055BF25)

edit: URL.

[This message was edited by Gregory on Tue June 03, 2003 PT at 11:51.]

06-03-2003, 10:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> New IBM offers 110 percent more performance, at one-third lower cost
IBM has announced a new low-end IBM system that offers 110 percent more performance at one-third lower cost than its predecessor, making it an attractive option for small- and medium-sized businesses. With this new system IBM now offers customers a complete range of servers from high-end to low-end with POWER4+?Ѣ technology, resulting in one of the fastest complete rollouts of 64-bit server chip technology in recent history.

IBM News (http://www.ibm.com/news/us/) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

06-05-2003, 02:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Motorola is preparing a next-generation two-core G4-class PowerPC processor, the company will this week tell attendees of its annual Smart Networks Developer Conference, held in Disneyland Paris.

The chip, as yet unnamed - at least in public - will contain two PowerPC cores with AltiVec, Motorola's SIMD engine. It will also contain its own memory controller, capable of connecting to DDR and DDR 2 SDRAM, according to documents seen by The Register.

It will interface with the rest of the system using Rapid IO, the next-generation chip-to-chip bus developed by Motorola, but offered as a standard to the embedded processor industry. Given Motorola's Rapid IO heritage, support for the bus isn't surprising - indeed, on sales collateral produced earlier this year, the company's roadmap features a new chip, called the G4+, with Rapid IO built in.

However, the chip will also support "general purpose IO" - presumably a reference to the 745x family's current bus, MPX - so the processor is clearly being designed with backward compatibility in mind.

The G4+ that appears on the January roadmap will be fabbed at 0.1 micron, the sales sheet says, and will feature a "higher level of integration" than previous G4-class CPUs. As of January, the G4+ was simply a proposal to Motorola chiefs, but from presentations Motorola will make this week at SNDF, that the chip has been given the green light. - MacInTouch <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[This message was edited by Gregory on Sat June 07, 2003 PT at 10:20.]

06-09-2003, 05:00 AM
The Register (http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/31093.html) has an interesting look at the Moto/IBM/Apple chip business <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> ... So while the current MPC7455 tops out at 1GHz, according to Motorola's public documentation, it nevertheless sells a 1.4GHz version to Apple and other customers looking for desktop CPUs.

The trouble is, that may change under a new owner. We don't know what contractual obligations Motorola has toward Apple, or whether they would continue to hold should ownership be transferred. But a buyer might decide that the desktop-oriented R&D work wasn't worth the return, and wind down that aspect of its business.

That fear certainly provides an explanation for Apple's growing relationship with IBM, a connection that emerged when Motorola got into trouble for messing up the launch of the original G4 processor, the MPC7400. Yields for 7400s operating at 500MHz or above were so poor, Apple was forced to back-track on its own Power Mac G4 launch promises and offer reduced clock speeds across the range.

IBM was soon after called in to become a second source of G4s. It would be interesting to learn whether IBM did produce G4s for Apple in the first quarter of 2000, as announced, or whether this was a claim made by Apple to 'encourage' Motorola to get a move on. If IBM did make G4s, has that continued across the generations of the processor? Certainly our belief is that the vast majority of G4s come to Apple from Motorola. IBM certainly supplies G3-class chips for iBooks.

It's probably around this time that Apple started talking to IBM about broader PowerPC developments, and the seeds of the PowerPC 970 project were planted, though that processor was to grow much later, and is expected to flower next week at Apple's Worldwide Developers Conference.

IBM is said to be working an a G3-class processor with AltiVec, which along with the 970 could satisfy Apple's chip needs across the board. Sure it's a G3, but with AltiVec, we doubt Apple would have any compunction about dubbing it a G4. Whatever, the point is Apple may soon be in a position to drop Motorola. We're not saying that's what it's going to do, or even that that's what it wants to do. We're simply noting that the option may be there.

And if Motorola is indeed interested in selling off its chip operation, the motivation may be there too. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Heard on the Beat

Semiconductor Business News
(06/06/03 10:32 a.m. EST)

Is Moto's IC unit still up for sale?

Word on the street is that Motorola Inc.'s semiconductor unit is still up for sale. The problem: there are no buyers for the unit--yet, according to sources in the industry.

In recent months, rumors were running rampant that STMicroelectronics Inc. would acquire Moto's chip unit. Both companies denied those rumors even though it was common knowledge that Moto's troubled semiconductor division was (and still is) on the block.

The big decision may come in Q2. If the unit remains in the red, then Wall Street may urge the company to pull out the carving knife.

However, there was plenty of speculation this week, especially when the unit's president decided to retire after three ?horrible? years on the job (see June 4 story ). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> www.macosrumors.com (http://www.macosrumors.com)

[This message was edited by Gregory on Mon June 09, 2003 PT at 6:42.]

06-09-2003, 07:30 AM
ok so we might be seeing a G5 end of june, and that IBM will might be the main company producing the new chip.

So do you guys think Mortorla is going under for good? Or possible they become a sonnet/power logic type company for upgrade chips.

And is anyone going the the WWDC?

G4 1.25 DP (MDD/FW800) -- 1.25gig Ram -- 2x18gig SCSI -- 40gig & 80gig ATAs (all Seagates)
ATi Radion 9000 -- 21 Inch Apple Studio Display

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It is not the power of the Raging Demon...but you past sins that will be your undoing<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

06-09-2003, 08:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
eWeek.com ^ | June 9, 2003 | Nick Ciarelli and Matthew Rothenberg

Apple Computer Inc. is nearing the release of desktop systems featuring IBM's 64-bit PowerPC 970 chip, sources report - but a 64-bit version of Mac OS X may lag behind by a month or two.

Sources said that the IBM chip will make its first appearance in a new Power Mac known internally as Q37. However, sources said, Q37 won't ship with a 64-bit version of Mac OS X, limiting OS performance gains in the initial release. Instead, Q37 will launch with a special build train of the current Mac OS X Version 10.2, a k a Jaguar.

This build, code-named Smeagol, will run on the new chip but won't take advantage of many of its key features, including 64-bit support. Sources said Apple's goal for Smeagol is to deliver Mac OS X performance at least "on par" with what Jaguar could achieve on Motorola G4 chips running at the same speed; the move will allow Apple to ship the new hardware before Mac OS X 10.3, a k a Panther, can take advantage of all the new processor's capabilities.

Even before Panther ships, early adopters of the new Mac system should also apparently be able to take advantage of the new processor's fast new front-side bus and cache.

Part of the issue with OS compatibility lies with Mac OS X's compiler, GCC 3, which lacks scheduling support for the PowerPC 970. Apple and IBM are reportedly working to add 970-specific support to the latest version, GCC 3.3. The development effort is proceeding well, sources report, but the compiler isn't yet ready for full use.

While Smeagol will be built using GCC 3.1, Apple plans to compile Mac OS X 10.3 with GCC 3.3. Apple has said it will show off Panther later in June at the Worldwide Developers Conference in San Francisco, an event which sources said will also mark Apple's first discussions of the PowerPC 970; it's unclear whether a developer preview will include support for the new chip. Apple does, however, plan to release a 64-bit version of the OS when it ships in September, according to sources.

Since the PowerPC 970 is backward-compatible with 32-bit code written for the G4, Apple intends to release Smeagol to fill Q37's software bill until Panther ships, sources said.

Apple's current plans call for wrapping up development of Smeagol within a month or so of WWDC, suggesting that Q37 may ship by August; however, sources were unable to confirm specifics of Apple's release schedule.

Meanwhile, resellers told eWEEK that current models of the Power Mac G4 are becoming constrained in the retail channel, indicating that new pro hardware models are on the way.

eWEEK sources first reported in August 2002 that the Mac maker was working with IBM Microelectronics on the 64-bit PowerPC processor, dubbed the GigaProcessor Ultralite (GPUL). IBM unveiled the chip in October at the annual Microprocessor Forum in San Jose, Calif., at speeds up to 1.8 GHz. Neither Apple nor IBM have commented publicly on whether Apple plans to adopt the chip in its hardware lineup.

The PowerPC 970 shares technology with IBM's Power4 server chip and inherits many of its performance advantages, but is more compact. The chip also supports Vector/SIMD Multimedia Extensions (VMX), a group of 162 instructions that speed data processing and algorithmic-intensive tasks, such as multimedia creation and display.

IBM has said VMX is identical to Motorola's Altivec multimedia acceleration, marketed as Velocity Engine by Apple. Apple and IBM are also reportedly tailoring the chip for a new high-frequency, point-to-point Mac bus dubbed ApplePI, short for Apple Processor Interconnect, that Apple plans to use as a replacement for its current MaxBus.

Cupertino, Calif.-based Apple did not immediately respond to requests for comment on the reports.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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06-10-2003, 09:18 AM
Today's Mac Section Wireless - /osgeek/mac/portable/ (http://www.geek.com/osgeek/mac/index.htm)

Power Mac G5 coming to WWDC - The Apple Insider and eWeek (http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,1121736,00.asp) have both reported that Apple's long-awaited Power Mac G5 will make its debut at Apple's World Wide Developer's Conference (WWDC) later this month. Apple announced that Panther, the next version of Mac OS X, would be demonstrated at the WWDC back in March. Now it looks like Jobs will be running Panther on a new G5. The new Power Mac G5s will reportedly showcase IBM's 64-bit PPC 970 processor and come with DDR 400 RAM, AGP 8x graphics, FireWire 800 and USB 2.0. The new G5s will ship with Jaguar later in June, but will be ready to run Panther when its released sometime in September. Reader Bruce Vogt also noticed that a press release (http://www-916.ibm.com/press/prnews.nsf/jan/8C48902AC02C0BE885256D34004970EB) from IBM on May 28th noted that Apple is mentioned as a company that is utilizing IBMs POWER family of microprocessors. Thanks to MacNN for the link. - by Shane

[This message was edited by Gregory on Mon June 16, 2003 PT at 8:46.]

06-10-2003, 01:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>G5 could be two weeks away
[MacUser] 11:57

Speculation is mounting that Apple could unveil new Power Macs at its Worldwide Developers Conference, which starts on 23 June.

A MacUser.co.uk source reports that WWDC will be the 'biggest ever' and will feature significant hardware announcements, while according to eWeek, Apple 'is nearing the release of desktop systems featuring IBM's 64-bit PowerPC 970 chip'.

Apple has already confirmed that Mac OS X 10.3 - codenamed Panther - will be previewed for the first time at WWDC. Panther will be the first version of Mac OS X capable of exploiting the 64-bit capabilities of the PowerPC 970 chips.

eWeek suggests that in fact the new Power Macs - expected to be tagged as G5s - will beat OS X 10.3 to market and that in the interim a 'special' build of 10.2 - Smeagol- will be released to bridge the gap.

Adding spice to the mix, Apple lawyers recently forced one Mac rumour Web site to remove a story predicting G5s at WWDC.

What is certain is that with the imminent release of QuarkXPress for OS X and the decision by Adobe to discontinue the Classic version of Photoshop, all but one of the elements that can persuade pro Mac suers to switch wholesale to OS X are in place. The missing element is a Power Mac range powerful enough to justify the expenditure for not just the computers, but across the board software upgrades.

Simon Aughton MacUser UK (http://macuser.pcpro.co.uk/?http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/news_story.php?id=43034) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

06-16-2003, 07:15 AM
Some technical background from Ars:

Inside the POWER 970: Part II (http://arstechnica.com/cpu/03q1/ppc970/ppc970-0.html) and Part I (http://arstechnica.com/cpu/02q2/ppc970/ppc970-1.html) <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I do hold out some hope that we'll see the 970 scale just north of 2GHz fairly soon, based on the fact that IBM has just announced that its top-end Power4 server is now at 1.7GHz. In my first article, I mentioned the fact that the Power4 is built for reliability, not speed; hence it has thicker gate oxides that spell lower clock speeds. The 970 is meant to be faster and less reliable, so just based on the difference in the gate oxide thickness alone I would expect the top-end 970 to bump up against 2GHz. And when you factor in the 970's much smaller die size, even more MHz can be added to the top-end estimate.?

Finally, as I've mentioned a number of times in this article and in other places, the 970 is made for SMP designs. So I look for the top-end 970 machines from both Apple and IBM to be dual-processor right out of the gate. And in fact, I would expect that machines with four processors and more are in the works from both companies.

On the IBM side, I think the 970 will make a great Linux platform, especially for content creation companies that are currently replacing their expensive 64-bit *NIX workstations and rendering machines with commodity x86-based Linux systems. If IBM can keep the prices of its 970-based Linux boxes competitive, they could see their systems gain traction in many of the places that Linux-based PC systems are starting to enter.?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
An Introduction to 64-bit Computing and x86-64 (http://arstechnica.com/cpu/03q1/x86-64/x86-64-1.html), along with "What is HyperTransport (http://www.hypertransport.org/technology.html)?"

Understanding bandwidth and latency (http://arstechnica.com/paedia/b/bandwidth-latency/bandwidth-latency-1.html)

After six weeks, the Apple Store Specials no longer shows any PowerMac G4 towers being available. (You can find a full line of other Macs, including PowerBooks and iBooks.)

I wonder if you were to order a G4, if it would be "upgraded" to something else. Order a dual 1.42, see there is 7-10 days wait on your order... and PRESTO! be the first on the block.

[This message was edited by Gregory on Mon June 16, 2003 PT at 9:29.]

06-16-2003, 11:18 AM
"Rumors are rampant on whether we will see a new Generation 5 PowerPC based PowerMac introduced at next Monday's keynote. As we reported in May, Panther will take advantage of the 64-Bit architecture of the 970 PowerPC. We expect Steve to give us a sneak peak of what system he is running on, and we expect that new machine to get much attention. Totally redesigned from the ground up, and 3 to 5 times faster than current G4 offerings and the same price range. The new PowerMacs are said to debut at the WWDC but won't ship until early July."

- www.looprumors.com (http://www.looprumors.com)

06-17-2003, 11:55 AM
Well there was a photo on MacRumors of something that looked like a new G5 or Xstation. Was taken off very fast tho, and i couldn;t download it in time. Got buggy and then it was gone.

Square shape, with handles but nothing like the B&W G3s or G4 cases. All metal looking, apple logo on side, square and no plastic from the looks of it.


I bet it was a pic of the new server, cause if it is the new mac. I think i like the style of the macs i have, not into the whole box looking thing.

Story over the photo went something like this.

"I had to sneek this out in my pants, so hurry up and download before it gets taken off"

But by the time i tried the counter on the page was very high, and had probs. As of this minute macrumors site is flooded and i can;t even load the dam thing. Guess we'll find more info when things settle down.

G4 1.25 DP (MDD/FW800) -- 1.25gig Ram -- 2x18gig SCSI -- 40gig & 80gig ATAs (all Seagates)
ATi Radion 9000 -- 21 Inch Apple Studio Display

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It is not the power of the Raging Demon...but your past sins that will be your undoing<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

06-17-2003, 12:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Apple seeds the mill -

When it comes to feeding the rumor mill, Jobs and company rank extremely high. Recent speculation on upcoming announcements at the World Wide Developer's Conference (WWDC) next week have Apple afficionados drooling about what might come to be. Apple has now supposedly "planted" mystery boxes at FNAC (a computer/department store in France) as well as palettes at Apple Stores that are marked not to open until the afternoon of Monday, June 23rd, the opening day of the WWDC. This information could very well be just more rumors, but the Apple community is expecting something big. Let's hope Jobs doesn't disappoint. - by Shane

www.geek.com (http://www.geek.com) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

06-17-2003, 12:26 PM
Well i'm not sure, but poped into two Apple stores near me in NJ. Short hills mall and one in menlo park mall, and tried to get any info out of those guys i could. They aren't saying a word, wether they have info or not. I even asked if they had boxes in da back, and go nadda info.

What would be really funny is if apple planted those boxes with dummy cases in them. Just to throw people off. And what would even be funnier then that, those few cases would be the biggest collector items out there.

The apple case never made!!!

Ask me its a great plan to mess wit people. Thats what i would do. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

G4 1.25 DP (MDD/FW800) -- 1.25gig Ram -- 2x18gig SCSI -- 40gig & 80gig ATAs (all Seagates)
ATi Radion 9000 -- 21 Inch Apple Studio Display

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It is not the power of the Raging Demon...but your past sins that will be your undoing<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

06-17-2003, 02:30 PM

?"Well i'm not sure, but poped into two Apple stores near me in NJ."

?I KNEW you typed with a right coaster accent! I knew it.



<font size=-1>Quis Custodiet Custodes Ipsos?</font>

06-17-2003, 04:17 PM

G4 1.25 DP (MDD/FW800) -- 1.25gig Ram -- 2x18gig SCSI -- 40gig & 80gig ATAs (all Seagates)
ATi Radion 9000 -- 21 Inch Apple Studio Display

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It is not the power of the Raging Demon...but your past sins that will be your undoing<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

06-18-2003, 06:30 PM
As of 10:30PM EST June 18, the apple site is down except the .Mac and Support section.

Does this mean new stuff might pop on it, new look or some really big price drops?

Anyone got some info?

Been reading some rumors on various sites about it being down for something.

G4 1.25 DP (MDD/FW800) -- 1.25gig Ram -- 2x18gig SCSI -- 40gig & 80gig ATAs (all Seagates)
ATi Radion 9000 -- 21 Inch Apple Studio Display

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It is not the power of the Raging Demon...but your past sins that will be your undoing<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

06-18-2003, 08:47 PM
It is working now and I don't see any 970's yet. k

06-19-2003, 01:07 AM
Well, experientially I would have to agree that IBM makes a far better chip than Moto. I sit on a beige and I know too well the differences in the chips used for upgrades in this model. There's the G4/500 that will barely over clock and the G4/550 which will over clock a lot. I am guessing the G4/500 is Moto and the G4/540 is IBM. I know for certain that my XLR8 G3/400 is an IBM copper (lone star). It runs well at 466 and even seems happy at 500.


06-19-2003, 06:55 AM
The G4/500 used the older 7400 while the G4/533/550 is a 7410 is all. IBM didn't make any G4's. but they do seem ready to provide an alternative. The POWER4+ has had a lot of R&D, shines in linux servers and AIX and should prove interesting.

I'm worried about software updates more than any rev 1 970 issues, all the 3rd party device drivers and software.

06-19-2003, 07:23 AM
Based on news of HP Athlon's from Geek.com

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The 1.8GHz Athlon 64 (model number 3100) may end up being the fastest speed at which the Athlon 64 is initially offered. After all, AMD's Athlon 64 program manager Mark de Frere recently conceded that the clock speeds of the Athlon 64 would be "lower than what you are used to." Since we are used to having 2GHz Athlon XP processors, a 1.8GHz Athlon 64 microprocessor might be the fastest that consumers can get their hands on for a while. If, as AMD claims, a 1.2GHz Athlon 64 is faster than a 2.4 GHz Pentium 4 then a 1.8GHz model should be able to effectively compete with a 3.4GHz Prescott processor. - by Sander Olson ChipGeek (http://www.geek.com/procspec/procmain.htm)

HP will introduce an Athlon 64 desktop business computer - Hewlett-Packard has plans to use AMD's Athlon 64 processor in a desktop machine. The HP computer will have the following specs:

* Model: t182k DD266A
* Processor & Speed: Athlon 64 3100 + 1.8GHz / 1 MB
* Chipset: Via-8KT400M
* Motherboard: Boxster-UL6E
* RAM: 256/2700 MB DDR SDRAM
Maximum 1 GB (2x512 MB DDR SDRAM)
* Sockets: two 184-pin DDR DIMMs
* Size: 128, 256, and 512 MB DDR DIMMs
* Type Supported: JEDEC unbuffered DDR SDRAM
* Cache: 128 KB L1, 1 MB L2 Integrated on processor module
* Hard Drive: 80 GB
* Optical Drive: 1 CD-RW: 48x-Write / 12X Re-write / CD-ROM speed=48x max
* Optical Drive 2: DVD-ROM: DVD (16x max) / CD-ROM (48x max)
* Diskette Drive: 3.5" (1.44 MB)
* Video Graphics: AGP 4X graphics card
* Controller: nVidia GeForce 4 MX-440
* Video Memory: 128 MB DDR, not upgradeable
* Video Connectors: Composite & S-Video ? PAL or NTSC
* Network Card: 10/100 BaseT, Integrated
* 1394 Card: IEEE-1394, Integrated
* MPEG-1/2 MPEG-2 for full-screen, full-motion digital video
* Sound: AC'97, 6 Channel, Integrated on mobo
* Controller: Realtek ALC650
* Chassis: Jaguar, 250HV PSU
* USB Interface Specification: USB 2.0
* Front I/O Connector: 1= USB, 1= 1394; 6 in 1 Card Reader; 1= Microphone;
* Expansion Slots: (Total) 3= PCI, 1= AGP
Expansion Slots (FREE) 3= PCI
* Drive Bays: (Total) Two 5.25" external, One 3.5" external, Two 3.5" internal
Drive Bays (FREE) One 3.5" internal
* Keyboard/Mouse: HP Wireless Internet command center; One-touch Internet keyboard, Wireless optical scrolling mouse
HP 64-bit Athlons (http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2003Jun/bch20030619020476.htm)

UPDATE: AMD may ship Athlon 64 chips in August - There is a rumor from DigiTimes that AMD may begin supplying Athlon 64 CPUs to motherboard makers in August. Apparently there will be small shipments of model 3100 and model 3400 processors in August, which indicates that Athlon 64 processors should be available when the Athlon 64 is officially launched in September. More important, we now have a fairly good idea of Athlon 64 processor speeds. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hum... I wonder if this means there is a window of opportunity for Apple to be out there ahead of AMD with a 64-bit desktop AND, the year of the laptop, with 64-bit PowerBook?

[This message was edited by Gregory on Thu June 19, 2003 PT at 12:00.]

06-20-2003, 05:49 AM
Hum (http://www.elroyonline.net/misc/apple/apple.html)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>A number of web sites reported that the database that holds the Apple Store data has been accidentally updated (and later its webmaster took down the whole Store website). While the headline in the final rendered web page is still calling it a "G4", the specs are mentioning the following:

1.6GHz, 1.8GHz, or Dual 2GHz PowerPC G5 Processors
Up to 1 GHz processor bus
Up to 8GB of DDR SDRAM
Fast Serial ATA hard drives
AGP 8x Pro (ATI/Nvidia)
Three USB 2.0 ports
3 PCI or PCI-X expansion slots
One FireWire 800, two FireWie 400 ports
Bluetooth & Airport Extreme ready
Optical and analog audio in and out

Update #1 Something seems to be happening on the PowerBook front, at any rate. One reseller was told this week that his order for a number of 15in PowerBooks was cancelled by Apple, notification of which was appended with a comment that he should wait until Monday...

Register (http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/31331.html) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[This message was edited by Gregory on Fri June 20, 2003 PT at 7:18.]

06-20-2003, 06:24 AM
Check out MacWhispers (http://www.envestco2.com/macwhispers/archives/000078.php)

06-20-2003, 07:08 AM

Specs for the new G5.

G4 1.25 DP (MDD/FW800) -- 1.25gig Ram -- 2x18gig SCSI -- 40gig & 80gig ATAs (all Seagates)
ATi Radion 9000 -- 21 Inch Apple Studio Display

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It is not the power of the Raging Demon...but your past sins that will be your undoing<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

06-20-2003, 07:59 AM
The screenshot captured


06-20-2003, 01:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Posted on Fri, Jun. 20, 2003
Apple to update desktop chips
By Jon Fortt
Mercury News

Apple Computer is expected to use IBM's advanced PowerPC 970 chip...

IBM has scheduled analyst briefings on the chip to begin after Apple Chairman and Chief Executive Steve Jobs gives his keynote address. A group of IBM engineers has come to Apple's Cupertino headquarters for last-minute preparations. And Apple's close partners say significantly faster Apple machines should arrive before the end of the year.
Its 64-bit design, now found only in industrial-class servers, rivals the fastest Intel-based chips available today. The 64-bit architecture also allows it to use far more memory...
IBM also has plenty of opportunity to continue boosting the chip's performance, Brookwood said, when it moves from a 130-nanometer production process to a more advanced 90-nanometer.

"It would be pretty straightforward to move it to the advanced process,'' Brookwood said, ``which would typically boost performance about 50 percent."

Mercury News (http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/business/6131212.htm) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

06-22-2003, 01:28 PM
MacBidouille (http://www.macbidouille.com/niouzcontenu.php?date=2003-05-05) has PowerPC 970 benchmarks which could preview the performance Apple may tout in its announcements tomorrow:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The first benchmarks were done during March 2003 on a preview model running at 1.4 GHz. OS was an alpha version 7B5 and 7B8 of Panther, optimised for 64 bits processor, but the applications tested were only using 32 bits.

Photoshop : PPC 970 mono 1.4 is 87% faster than a Dual 1.42 GHz Final Cut Pro : PPC 970 mono 1.4 is 112% faster than a Dual 1.42 GHz Alias|Wavefront Maya Render : PPC 970 mono 1.4 is 254% faster than a Dual 1.42 GHz

[The second series of benchmarks were done on the same computers that will be sold. There is however a doubt on the presence of the up-market dual 2.0 GHz as the availability of these chips isn't sure. It seems Apple will surely be able to sell Mono 1.4 GHz, Dual 1.6 and Dual 1.8.]

[A few explanations to the results :

- The Altivec shows a 80% increase of performances with the 970. This is not due to the chip itself, but to the high speed access between processor and central memory. The Mach 64 motherboard is highly optimised for the use of DDR-SDRAM.

- There is no performance loss when the PPC 970 executes some 32 bits apps.

- The motherboard optimization almost allows dual processors to reach double performance. In fact it's about 90% efficiency gained with the second processor, compared to 50% for the G4.]

[Looking closely to these results we understand why Apple didn't need to wait for a 64 bits OS to launch the PPC 970. We'll take advantage of a 50% gain of performance between he up-market Pro G4 and the first PPC 970. We can imagine the difference with the top level PPC 970. It will be the best evolution ever between two Mac generations.]

It's only a rumor, but before finding some evidences, it might let you dream a bit.

June-July 2003: PPC 970 PowerMac and Xserve, PowerBooks with G4 @ 1.25 GHz.

August-September 2003: iMacs with 1.25 and 1.4GHz G4 processors.

November 2003: iBook still equiped with G3 processors, but Apple will now use the Gobi version of the processor at 1 and 1.2 GHz.

January-February 2004: Second generation of PPC 970, running at 2.5 GHz (maybe more). They will be used in PowerMacs and Xserves.
iMacs will run for the first time with PPC970 at 1.4 and 1.6 GHz.

March 2004 (less sure): First presentation of the PPC980, mobile version of the PPC970, probably used to replace PowerBook's G4.

Two new products are being developed by Apple :

- The Xstation is a highly professional super computer with up to 64 processors (mini. 4). It will be equiped with the latest GPU and support a high quantity of memory. Price between 10000 and 75000$ (maybe more).

The Xstation will aim people using some big apps as Maya and other CAD and high resolution video softwares.

- The Xserve Enterprise Edition (2 rackable units) will run with a Power 5 and will support a very large data flow.

The result is that the G4 compared to the PPC 970 is now a secretary computer. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

06-26-2003, 02:18 PM
This topic got over 400 hits in its short life!

I think that's a record.