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TZ
09-18-2002, 11:34 AM
Using RAID under OS X? I have news for you, Disk Warrior is 6-8 weeks (Nov?) away, Norton 7.02 and Drive10 1.1.2 don't work on Apple RAID or ExpressStripe volumes.

From today's MacFixit:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> ATTO ExpressStripe and Norton Utilities John Schofield reports a potentially disk-damaging conflict between Norton Utilities and ATTO's ExpressStripe RAID software. The problem has been confirmed, but not addressed, by ATTO's technical support team:

"I created a striped RAID using ExpressStripe. I then ran Norton Systemworks (Norton Disk Doctor). This was the updated, 7.0.2 version of Norton Disk Doctor, compatible with Jaguar. It reported a problem with the striped drives (three volumes on two drives) and I clicked fix. Norton did not create an undo, despite being told to do so. The three volumes show up when I select 'show missing disks' in NDD, but are unfixable. They do not mount, in OS X or OS 9.2.2. "

A representative from ATTO's technical support operation replied to Schofield's problem:

"Norton may have changed the Master Directory on the disk, Norton is for use with Apple software and not ExpressStripe. You will have to call Norton and have them walk you through and change what it has edited. I am not sure of have to fix it, but I have heard from other customers that have done the same." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can confirrm that ExpressStripe, while mountable under OS 9, was told by ATTO tech support to not use Disk Warrior. Not MicroMat, not Symantec, say specifically that they do or don't support RAID, that I am aware of.

Gregory

ricks
09-18-2002, 02:43 PM
WOOOooof.

unclemac
09-18-2002, 10:27 PM
You are refering to DW 3 , or whatever rev it will be, right? Now that 10.2.1 is out, has anyone used the current rev of DW (with/without RAID)? Is it safe? Saved my butt on 10.1.5...

Thanks Gregory, glad to see you back Ricks(great photo).

ricks
09-19-2002, 01:02 AM
?I have run DW on my 10.2 volume, in fact as soon as I upgraded one of my 10.1.5 volumes I ran DW on it, no problem. I just upgraded to 10.2.1 today and have not run DW on that yet.

?I then created a new 10.2 volume on my B&W and ran DW on that as well. I have only had a single crash where I needed to do a hard restart since upgrading and I ran DW on the boot disk after that as well, it did fix errors. That was the volume that is on the Siig ATA133 Hardware RAID card with 2 Barracudas. I guess it is only softraid that has issues.

?I have yet to hear a positive from anyone running Nortons on OSX disks.

As far as the picture goes I can't decide whether that's a grimace or a smile after carryin the kid up the mountain, sometimes being 45 is hell. http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/tongue.gif

Thanks,
Rick

TZ
09-19-2002, 05:29 AM
Symantec pointed me to an article in their own Knowledge Base that only said "if the raid is functioning properly" before running. But you would think that all of the disk utility vendors would support Apple's (software based) RAID, but apparently MicroMat is not currently doing so.

When I first bought SoftRAID part of my concern was if disk utilities would work, and yes, they would - under 8.6+ so it comes as a shock when ATTO's ExpressStripe doesn't work with Disk Warrior or Norton, and of course you can't even run the current DW 2.1 on OS X Apple RAID - they don't mount under OS 9. That makes those IDE hard RAID an interesting choice.

Now that there are more software RAID vendors, either they conform to some standard partition mapping and driver or they should provide their own repair utility. What does ATTO expect users to do? which may be why we won't see SoftRAID 3.0 (OS X version) mountable under OS 9. No OS 9 driver makes it easier and more reliable maybe?

Symantec may look at putting on the box "supports (Apple) RAID" or something. I took for granted that these programs were designed and tested to work together. Not totally true. Intech had to adjust their HardDisk SpeedTools partition maps to better conform to (one of) Apple's guidelines. Testing itself seems a hit or miss affair. Back with Central Point Software there was a beta tester BBS so we could "share stories" and interact with the engineers. That felt more productive than "working in the dark." They used a special reporting program so everything went into the database and it was easier to see if and how many testers had a specific configuration. Systems have only gotten more complex. We have open firmware on your IDE PCI RAID card, your video card even, and any of that can conflict with another component.

Just when you think you know what questions to ask, the rules change.

At least with yesterday's technology, the problems are known and fixed if possible. Bleeding edge, you're out in front trail-blazing new technology "going where no man has gone before" and one step away from the unknown, uncharted territory. Every new piece of hardware, whether USB or FireWire or Serial-ATA will take time, probably will not work properly, when it first comes out.

That's scary.

Gregory

TZ
09-20-2002, 10:46 AM
Dantz Mac OS X Support (http://www.dantz.com/index.php3?SCREEN=kbase&ACTION=KBASE&id=27381) has a note that is reposted in part on www.MacIntouch.com (http://www.MacIntouch.com) today (9/20) that there are serious problems with Adaptec SCSI cards and OS X such that users should not trust their data or use Adaptec cards, including the BTO UltraSCSI card shipped with Apple computers as a BTO option.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Mac OS X requires a new method of interaction between the SCSI adapter and the operating system. Because of this, not all SCSI adapters that functioned properly on Mac OS 9 will function properly on OS X. DantzLab has tested many of the OS X supported SCSI adapters for compatibility. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Other comments of on-going support for Initio Miles cards, more trouble with Sonnet firmware and their IDE cards, and trouble-free ATTO.