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kaye
04-23-2001, 02:39 PM
Assembling a Parts List for the Burly:
For me, this was the hardest, but I put together a list and submitted it to magician for review. He made one important suggestion, some tips, and deleted one item.

What I Wanted:
This burly RAID is designed for dual Miles2 with three X15s on each Miles2 in my PTP, convertible to six X15s on one Miles2 in my S900, convertible to ATTO UL3D dual-channel with three X15s on each channel.

The Order:
1.(1) MAP5083 8-Bay 5.25-in SCSI Encl w/15-ID Switches with optional single 300 watt power supply.

2.(2) GD2682 Quad 68-pin Int TPO LVD Ribbon Encl. Cable
For dual Miles2 or UL3D dual-channel with three X15s on each channel in PTP, convertible to six X15s on one Miles2 in S900.

3.(8) Ult 5.25 Hard Drive Cooler w Dual-Fan, Heat-Sink
For six X15s.

4.(2) GD9861-LVD Ext.68-pin MicroD/68-pin MicroD 18-in.LVD Cable
"Shorty" for connecting dual Miles2 in PTP to Burly, or, for S900, one cable for one Miles2 to Burly and the other on rear of Burly to connect each channel of three X15s together.

5.(2) GD4911 Ext. 68-pin .8mm to 68-pin MicroD 3-ft. Cable
For connecting ATTO dual-channels to Burly.

6.(2) GD6299 68-pin MicroD LVD Active Diagnostic Termination

7.(2) GD1636 Remote LED Indicator (for use with Terminators)

8.(6) Seagate Cheetah 18.35GB 15k Ultra160 4MB

9.(6) Drive mounting screws
Ask for the screws in the Comments of the order form, no charge for them.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Explanations:
1.I needed a Burly to hold six drives, so I chose an 8-Bay model. I also wanted an 8-Bay with 15-ID Switches, meaning each switch is selectable for 15-ID numbers but there are 8 of these switches on the back of the Burly, for up to 8 devices. Also selected the optional 300 watt power supply. This model Burly comes with generic 68-pin internal cabling which gets removed. It has three 80mm Sunon fans, two at the top of the Burly and one at the bottom, inside the power supply.

2.IMPORTANT NOTE, these Granite internal cables for Burlys are on the SAME Enclosures page as the Burlys, just scroll further down the page. For dual-bus or dual-channel configuration, I needed two of these cables, each came with four drive connectors and a complete assembly on BOTH ends for installing on the back of the Burly.

3.Magician recommends filling all bays with the Ult Coolers or whatever cooler you are going to use.

4.The selection of external Granite cables is tricky so Magician helped me here also. The Shorty 18" cable is 18" end to end, as described on the page, meaning including the cable and the connectors on each end. The metal connectors are each about 1-3/4" long and the cables are pretty stiff. So to use the Shorty cables, the Burly must be side by side with my PTP or S900. I wouldn't be able to use the 8" Stubby, too short for this application. You can choose longer lengths, 3' and longer. For a desktop, Shorty might be way too short.

For my S900 single Miles2, one Shorty is used for Miles2 to Burly, one Shorty is used strictly on the back of Burly to connect one bus/channel inside Burly to the other, after removing one of the two external Granite terminators on the back of Burly.

5.The ATTO UL3S and UL3D EXTERNAL CONNECTORS are .8mm "Champ" Very High Density connectors. So these two Granite cables would only be used with the ATTO UL3D dual-channel card to connect to the Burly.

6.These two Granite terminators connect externally on the back of the Burly, two needed for dual-bus or dual-channel configuration, only one needed for the S900 configuration.

7.Two of these LED indicators, each attached to a Granite terminator. Only one needed for the S900 configuration.

Next will be installation instructions, following the Gurus How to Roll Your Own RAID. k

kaye
04-23-2001, 02:40 PM
Step by Step Installation following the Gurus How to Roll Your Own RAID:

There is an Intro page and 23 following pages. The Intro will help with the ordering and understanding what is involved. I will go to the following pages, starting at the beginning. I read thru several pages and then would go do it, then come back and read several more, etc.

Steps 1 thru 3: just do it.

Step 4, at each end of the bezels, there are two plastic hooks. Just pull inward on both hooks at one end of the bezel and it will fall out.

Step 5, I did not do at this point because I am using the Ult Coolers which require assembly with the drive before installing in Burly, so I bypassed Step 5.

Steps 6 thru 8, just do it.

Steps 9 thru 10, the GD4197 68-pin Plate Adapters, I did not need to order these, magician said not to order, because they were already preassembled on the GD2682 Quad 68-pin Int TPO LVD Ribbon Encl. Cables. So I bypassed these steps.

Step 11, just do it, in my case installing the two Granite internal LVD cables. NOTE, this 8-bay Burly comes with three pairs of connector ports on the backplane. The top pair, at about 12" above the floor, is where the removed generic 68-pin Burly internal cable was mounted. This location was fine for connecting to the PCI slot 1 Miles2 with Shorty for the PTP or S900. The other two pairs of Burly connector ports are sealed with knockouts. I removed the knockouts on the lowest pair, at about 7" above the floor. This location was fine for connecting to the PCI slot 4 Miles2 with Shorty for the PTP. Also NOTE the orientation of the Burly internal Granite cable 68-pin connectors, the top of the connector should be the long side, the bottom of the connector should be the short side, like so \=========/. Otherwise the Granite terminator will be upside down and you can't see its three LEDs on its body. Obviously, the end LEDs can be seen from either orientation.

Steps 12 thru 14, just do it.

Step 15, this is where I installed the drives into the Ult Coolers. First remove the delicate front grill. Blue side up, slide the grill up as far as it will go and remove it. Follow the instructions that come with the Ult Coolers. You have plenty of screws because you ordered drive screws and the Burly comes with a huge bag of screws, but for a variety of purposes. So don't force the screws into the drive, you may have selected one too long or you may not be threading correctly. Also orientation, the Ult Cooler will be blue side up when it goes in the Burly and the top smooth side of the drive goes up against the blue side of the Ult Cooler. The bottom logic board side of the drive will be exposed on the bottom of the Ult Cooler. When the drive is installed in the Ult Cooler, leave some room between the front of the drive (back of the drive with the 68-pin connector will be at the back of the Ult Cooler) and the fans. This is for allowing the fans to develop some velocity and to allow you to attach the LED jumper pins on Seagate drives. I installed all six of the drives in the Ult Coolers at this point. The Ult Cooler power plugs, attach the appropriate one in the drive, the other leave dangling.

Step 16, all of my drives, since the Burly has switch selectable SCSI ID capability, and since the LVD SCSI accelerators use Parity, have NO jumpers installed on any of the X15's three jumper pads, J2, J5, J6. NO jumpers on any of these jumper pads.

Step 17, just do it.

Break time. k

kaye
04-23-2001, 02:42 PM
More Step by Step Burly:

Steps 18 thru 22, starting with attaching the Burly drive activity LED to the front of the X15 and then the Burly SCSI ID selector jumpers to the rear of the X15. This Burly has one LED (green) for power on, already connected, and seven LEDs (yellow) for drive activity. The 8-bay Burly LED wires, seven pairs, go from short to long, so you want the shortest for the bottom drive and the longest for the top drive. Looking at the front of the Burly with the frame installed, slide one cooler/drive in upside down and slanted with the left side up and the right side down into the opening, leaving about an inch sticking out the front. Let it lay that way on the slant. Take the shortest LED wire pair and thread it behind the back of the cooler/drive and through the left up side of the cooler channel to the front of the drive, attaching the colored wire jumper to the lower LED drive pin (remember, the drive is upside down) and then the black wire jumper to the upper LED drive pin. Now rotate the assembly in the Burly opening clockwise with the front of the cooler/drive still sticking out until the assembly stops, now with the right side of the assembly slightly up and left side down, and blue side up. Push on the right side, the Burly side panels will give enough so that the assembly will go horizontal. I did this whole procedure because the LED wires, while generous length, I wanted routed around the back of the drives so that I could slide the drives out, if necessary.

Now, slide the assembly out another inch and prop it up in the rear with a screwdriver handle on one side, not the center where the drive logic board is. Mount the SCSI ID jumpers, three sets, onto the rear of the Seagate using the smaller jumper sets (for Seagate) and leaving the three larger jumper sets dangling. Directions for how to install these jumpers come with the Burly. I urge you to pay attention to which ID select switch jumpers you are using so that later you will know which switch controls the ID of which drive. Remove the screwdriver handle and push the assembly flush with the front bracket.

Screw the assembly to the Burly only in the rear, both REAR screw holes in the assembly line up with the Burly on BOTH sides, four screws in all. No screws at the front on either side. (NOTE: at this point, magician recommends testing each drive installation and LED and ID selector before continuing to the next. I had to install this away from my computers). Continue to install (stack) cooler/drive assemblies, being careful to use the shortest remaining LED wires and the next logical ID selector wires by the same procedure as above. If you run out of drives before you run out of bays, just slide in more Ult Coolers until all bays are filled.

Last, connect the SCSI cables to the drives and install the molex 4-pin connectors to the Ult Coolers.

Step 23, the payoff, bench testing. Well, I got lucky, everything worked, the LEDs and the ID swithes, cabling, all the way it should. Attached it to PTP, fired up the Burly with its front mounted power switch, fired up PTP, and ran one test, MB5 Disk 5129. Much more testing to follow, but I have a boot 50-pin drive in PTP that seems to be totally hosed by xlr8 CarrierMPe tests. I want that HD with four OS versions on it back before I continue with this project.

Last, I made notes as I went along with this. If I forgot anything, my apologies. It is a fun project. The 8-bay Burly is much like a PTP and S900, same height, 1/2" wider than S900, 1/2" width less than PTP, 1" longer than both but then you also have to make room for the terminators and heavy Granite external cables. Unlike the PTP, but like the S900, all of the internal metal corners/edges are rolled over, very good attention to no sharp finger cutting pieces. Open on both sides. Swedish vs. Russian finish? Made in Taiwan, R.O.C. Tests and pictures later. k

[This message has been edited by kaye (edited 23 April 2001).]

magician
04-24-2001, 01:33 AM
k....did you use just four screws per drive?

I use four per SIDE....two up front, two in the rear....I am talking about the 3.5-inch drive brackets, attaching them to the enclosure chassis.

did you put your brackets on upside down or something? Or did I misread you?

also...the drive ID switches.....definitely the toughest part.

I am considering a rewrite of the tutorial, at LEAST of that part.

also....hot-glue, just a dab, helps hold the LED wires onto the front of the drives....and the ID wires on the pins at the rear of the drive.

I also use hot-glue to secure the LEDs themselves into the front plastic panel of the Burly. I don't like it when one LED sticks out more than the others, or worse, isn't well-seated. This entails taking the front panel off.

Congrats on a nice build! An 8-bay unit is the toughest....it takes the longest.....and there is more to go wrong.

Good work!

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

jorge
04-24-2001, 09:26 AM
the led wires are the trickiest part. I had to bend mine at a 90 degree angle in order to clear the Ultimate coolers fan. The wires would pop off unless I hit them with hot glue.

Didn't mess with the SCSI id on the back of the case. I set the ids on the drives.

Holy canoli k, you have some serious hardware. Need to pay off my Ti G4, get a 1GB ram in there, then start saving for a new machine.

j

kaye
04-24-2001, 02:10 PM
magician,

Yes, four screws per drive and all in the rear, two per side. I didn't like the way the front of the Ult Coolers lined up when screws were installed in the forward holes. Not as smooth looking.

No, did not put the Ult Coolers in upside down, nor the brackets upside down. In order to install the LED wires, I started with the cooler/drive assembly almost upside down so that I could easily work with threading the LED wires thru the bracket and install the wires on the drive pins. Then flipped the assembly rightside up to connect the ID selecter wires in the rear, then install the assembly and do the rear screws, two per side.

Because I had to build this Burly in another room, I did not test each drive as I went along. So I did not hot-glue anything. I may go back and do that. But everything works right. But, yes, I know that the LEDs, LED wires, and ID wires should be hot-glued. Fortunately everything was tight anyway so I decided to just do it.

I love this thing.

jorge,

I noticed the problem with having to bend the LED wires, so instead of bending, I slid the drive further back away from the Ult Cooler fans, and now the LED wires gently turn and don't come close to the fans.

The ID wires, a pain to install, but once installed, work neat. Since I also want to use this as a single bus for the S900 with one Miles2, I set the ID switches to 1,2,3 and 4,5,6 on the dual bus PTP with two Miles2. That way when I go to the S900 config, I won't get an ID conflict.

I know this Burly firehose floods the PTP and the S900 with more data than they can take. But eventually I'm looking to get a later Mac which will take one of my ATTO UL3D dual-channel cards. I purchased the necessary external Granite cables to mate with the UL3D's two external .8mm champ Very High Density connectors. Waiting to see what Apple is up to next, NY? k

MacMikester
04-24-2001, 07:12 PM
Hey k,

This must be what all those self-improvement gurus are talking about when they say "poised for success". Your gonna slap whatever new Mac comes along right upside the head. Yo

jorge
04-24-2001, 07:57 PM
k,

I tried moving the drive back but figured it might benefit being closer to the fan. Used my Gerber pliers to bend them, and hold them while I hit them with glue. Now my nice setup is sitting @ my brothers house connected to my previously owned 9600.

How do the ID wires install? Face up, face down? Would like to make a note of it next time I build one.

j

kaye
04-24-2001, 08:13 PM
j,

I also pushed the drive back because magician noted in Roll Your Own RAID that pushing it back allowed for the velocity of air to build.

The ID wires install face up on the rear of a Seagate, and use the smaller connectors. In other words, the two 2-wire connectors install on the top row of pins, each with its colored wire toward the drive's power connector. Of course, you must install the correct color wires to the correct set of pins. The single black wire connector installed on the bottom row of pins, the 2 pins closest to the power connector with its single black wire on the pin closest to the power connector. Difficult to explain but the Burly instructions are clear. k

[This message has been edited by kaye (edited 24 April 2001).]

magician
04-25-2001, 01:55 AM
hmmm.....I'm still a little uncertain about this whole screws thing, k. Not to make a big deal out of it. I'm certain you built this thing well.

I'm just wondering if the stuff you got somehow is different from the dozens of other units I've built or supervised. I've always used four screws per side, eight just to attach the brackets to the chassis, and three per side to attach the drives to the brackets, for a total of fourteen screws per drive. A lot of other integrators get lazy and use fewer screws, but I realized at some point that using as many as possible minimized vibration and reduced noise.

these latest Cheetahs, the X15's, are specially engineered to dampen vibration, which is great, as it shows you that Seagate understands exactly how speed phreaks like us are using their hardware. They know we're building arrays with them, stacking the drives in close proximity to one another. Transferred vibration is much reduced with these drives, which helps keep them fast, and again, reduces noise.

ah.......you did install the assembled drives in their coolers first, THEN the bezels, right? If you do it that way, installing them separately, then you definitely use all the screws. You didn't just leave the bezels inserted into the sides of the drive brackets, did you?

again, I apologize for beating this to death. I just want to make sure that you get the most from your investment. This stuff ain't cheap. It is pretty good gear, though. Not real pretty. But solid as hell, and faster than anything else on the market. And very price-competitive.

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

kaye
04-25-2001, 05:57 PM
magician,

Let's see... yes, pulling the bezel ears out of the brackets does allow you to install 3 screws per side in mating the drive to the brackets. I confess I don't do that. I leave the bezel in the brackets and mount 2 scres per side, total 4 screws to mount drive to brackets. Lazy I guess, but everything is tight.

Attaching the brackets to the chassis I used 2 screws per side for a total of 4. I did not use 4 screws per side because I don't like the appearance on the front. With just two screws per side, I can jockey the front around so that the horizontal gaps are gone, then tighten up the 2 rear screws on each side.

Total 8 screws per assembly vs. 14. The 6 not installed, 2 lazy and 4 appearance.

Damn, 36 more screws to install for 6 X15s? OK, I want to make you happy too. The way I have these installed, I can just slide them out part way one at a time and do the remaining 2 drive/bracket screws and do the hot-glue on the LED wires. Slide them back in and install 4 screws per side to the chassis. When done with the 6 drives, carefully remove the front panel and hot-glue the LEDs. BTW, I did remove the front panel this morning just to see if it could be done without losing the LEDs, and it works fine. Reinstall the front panel. Finally hot-glue the ID selector wires to the drives. That should do it. Except I gotta practice hot-glue first. k

magician
04-26-2001, 02:57 PM
k, no problem--everyone has a different technique that works best for them. I'm sorry for taking you to task on it...I was having a hard time envisioning how you were doing it.

was your enclosure actually a 9-bay or an 8-bay? do you need me to send you another UltHD Cooler so all bays are filled?

kaye
04-26-2001, 03:19 PM
Burly 8-bay and you sent me 8 Ult Coolers, thank you very much. All bays will be filled. I just liked the look of the Burly bay bezel in the top bay. I'm putting the last Ult Cooler in the top bay and rescrewing the whole thing and hot-gluing everything. Going to have a blister in the palm of my screwdriver hand, unless I end up hot-gluing that hand to the case. I'll be typing with one hand if that happens. k

Ton
04-26-2001, 03:42 PM
Hey Kaye and Mag,
I'm following this thread with great interest and can't wait to see the benchmarks when it's finished. After all I got some spare internal room for a couple of X15 to add to my external 4 x 15k raid 0 http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by Ton (edited 26 April 2001).]

magician
04-27-2001, 12:44 AM
you know, k.....you could always just stick a VXA drive in that top bay.

(I HAD to say it--SORRY!)

how's your array running, Ton?

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

kaye
04-27-2001, 03:39 AM
I'm thinking about it magician. And I am about ready to start testing after I get thru with the 100 screws and hot-gluing 38 times. Plus I first want to test this Apple QuickDraw 3D Accelerator you sent with my PF3+. Downloaded the Apple instructions. Got your package this morning. Thanks, will return it when done. k

Ton
04-27-2001, 04:02 AM
Just great, it's so unbelievable fast in saving big files and not the slightest sign of file corruption or directory problems. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I have few other questions though, let's say I would add two more internal 15k Cheetha's to the striped raid. I don't know how quickly seagate models and revision numbers change but is there any chance the current ST318458's are being replaced in the foreseeable future? I always thought it was best to use the same drive models/revisions within the raid so I don't want to wait to long and discover that these drives are discontinued, would I? And what about connecting them, a second Ultra Atto Dual or on the internal connectors of the excisting Atto?
Tia for your advice, Ton

kaye
04-27-2001, 11:29 AM
Ton,

You mean X15 ST318451LW? I just purchased two more Gurus X15s, and they were Seagate firmware revision 0003 to go with four previously purchased that were also 0003. I have two more in the S900 that are also 0003. This is over pretty much a time span since the X15s were introduced. I don't know how long this will go on. Using same drive models, pretty crucial, but same revision, though optimal, not crucial. I did run three 10k Cheetahs (ST39204LW) in a RAID that had different revisions, 0001 and 0002. It was not crucial.

What machine are we talking about that you have an ATTO UL3D in? I thought you had a 9500 with dual Miles2. Am I behind the times with your hardware? k

Ton
04-27-2001, 12:01 PM
Yes, you're right Kaye, I meant the X15 ST318451LW's. The old 9500 workhorse is still in use here in the studio by a co-worker who really enjoys it's speed and it will not retire for a long time to come. I moved up to a 533 MP with ULD 160 and 4 x 15K cheetha's external and thinking of adding 2 more internal in the not so far away future. I wish you luck with the building of the 6x 15K cheetah raid and I'm really interested in some benchmarks when it's finished.

Ton

magician
04-29-2001, 03:22 AM
ton, just add them to the internal connector on your existing card. No need for another card! You can handle up to 30 drives with dual channels.

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I am not sure what's happening with Seagate drives.....I keep hearing intimations that a 36GB X15 may be imminent, or maybe a rev to the current 18GB, but who knows? This revision of the 18GB X15 has been out awhile, and dropped hard in cost. I remember we debuted them at over $500 each...and now, they are what? Almost $350? They'll probably fall that far within the next couple of weeks, maybe.

I agree with K: same rev is optimal, but not always feasible. Same part number is pretty important, at least for the sort of reliability and stability I expect and demand from an array.

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Ton
04-29-2001, 05:19 AM
Thanks for the advice Mag.
Looking at the G4/450 4x and 6x X15's quickbench benchmarks it looks like that there's a substantial gain in going from 4 to 6 X15's with a relatively small investment. Hmm, tempting... As I do most benchmarking with the 8MB Atto expresstools test, any clue how this score is with 6 drives/UL3D by approximation? Would I need additional internal cooling? (besides the CD/RW there's nothing installed in the G4/533DP)
Thx as always, Ton

[This message has been edited by Ton (edited 29 April 2001).]

kaye
04-29-2001, 03:52 PM
Ton,

I have done enough testing on this dual bus Burly with 2x Miles2 and 6x X15s to know that the sieve (choke point) of the 54MHz bus (xlr8 G3 at 540/270, 54MHz bus) is maxed out at 4x X15s. ATTO ExpressPro Tools virtually the same at SR 128MB/s and SW 76MB/s. QuickBench actually down a bit at 128/71. Only increase is MB5 Disk 5137 and Pub Disk 3719 vs 4546/3666 with 4x X15s.

This Burly needs a New World Mac and connected to an ATTO UL3D. k

Ton
04-29-2001, 05:35 PM
Kaye, I'm afraid I do not understand your last post, or is it my poor English that's failing me here?
At present, in my situation, what I raised here, is about a new world mac and an Atto UL3D and about the 4 X15K vs. 6 X 15K Cheetah isssue. I do understand that 4 cheetah's and 2 Miles2's will max out on a vintage mac but that was not what I was talking about.
When I read in this thread you were going to built this 6 drive raid 0 I assumed it was not for your trusted PTP, or am I completely missing something here? http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/confused.gif

[This message has been edited by Ton (edited 29 April 2001).]

kaye
04-30-2001, 12:01 AM
Ton,

I purchased the Burly so that I could stop buying X15s for every Mac I have purchased and intend to purchase in the future. Right now it connects to the PTP in dual bus config and to the S900 in single bus config. In the future it will go with some New World machine and one of my ATTO UL3D cards. I want to see what occurs at Macworld Conference & Expo/New York 2001 July 18-20. But right now I don't have a faster bus machine.

Looking at your G4-533DP, I don't know where the firehose would peak, but I'm sure that 6x would be a jump over 4x X15s, and I would think 8x would be a jump. Even on this old PTP, 8x shows some improvement in MB5. k

Ton
04-30-2001, 07:27 AM
Thanks for clarifying kaye.
Does anyone have or now where to find the 8MB Atto expresstools benchmarks for 6x Cheetha X15 and Atto UL3D? thanks. T

[This message has been edited by Ton (edited 30 April 2001).]

magician
04-30-2001, 12:11 PM
i only use and upload QuickBench benchmark files to our FTP site.

i rarely use ATTO Tools.

kaye
06-20-2001, 09:26 PM
Finally uploaded some Burly pics to the ftp site. Front, left side, left side overhead, right side, and rear with cables for 2x Miles2 (dual bus) in PTP, and another rear shot for 1x Miles2 (single bus) in S900.

Not shown, I have the special external Granite champ cables for my ATTO UL3D, awaiting a more recent Apple Mac (dual channel). k