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View Full Version : OS 9.1 and SoftRAID 2.2.2



seaav8r
01-14-2001, 08:51 PM
FYI.....

I installed OS 9.1 this weekend. The conflict between SoftRAID 2.2.2 and the Startup Disk control panel is resolved.

kaye
01-14-2001, 09:40 PM
Someone else, Ton I think, mentioned this also. Thanks, good to know. k

MacMikester
02-01-2001, 12:00 AM
One thing I recently found out the hard way (I'm jealous 'cause you guys are finding out the easy way):

If you have OS 9.0.x on a boot volume or you boot off a CD with OS 9.0.x, it messes with PRAM so that you can't just set the Startup Control Panel to an OS 9.1 boot volume and restart normally. You will get the ole flashing '?'. The workaround I found is to reset LOW PRAM (i.e. NVRAM) by using TechToolPro or doing a four-finger three-chime PRAM reset on a cold reboot.

02-01-2001, 02:42 PM
Hmm.
On my 9600s, the Startup Disk control panel from 9.1 will always crash, even with extensions off.

This has been confirmed on MacFixIt. Any ideas?

kaye
02-01-2001, 02:47 PM
darin,

Did you try MM's procedure and do you have OS9.0.4 installed on another partition/drive? k

magician
02-01-2001, 06:44 PM
turn off your stupid third-party extensions, nimrod.

SoftRAID 2.2.2 is working perfectly on all our machines here under OS9.1.

it's probably that ridiculous spellcheck utility you love so much, or PopChar, or ActionMenus, or Kaleidescope, or OneClick.

and disable Object Support Lib while you're at it.

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

kaye
02-01-2001, 07:12 PM
Darin,

What I found on MacFixIt:

Startup Disk crash on older Power Macs
Startup Disk crash on older Power Macs Bill Strohm writes: "On my PM8500/Newer MAXpwr 500 MHz G3, the new Startup Disk control panel crashes with either a Type 1 or Type 2 error and recommends restarting, whenever it is opened. No difference with extensions on or off." Replacing this with the control panel from Mac OS 9.0 was a successful work-around. We now have several confirmations of this bug.


Extracting a copy of the Startup Disk control panel from the Mac OS 9.1 Tome (using TomeViewer) and replacing it with the one that was crashing somehow eliminated the crashes for one user.

More generally, the incompatibility of Mac OS 9.1 and Mac OS X may extend beyond Mac OS Classic mode. A reader writes: "Don't use the Startup Disk control panel to select boot drives if you have OS X installed anywhere. It may result in the disk's System Folder getting unblessed and a failure to startup at all."

Another point:

New Macs come with files newer than in Mac OS 9.1 Update
Schoun Regan (of Complete Mac Seminars) has a new 533MHz G4. The CD that came with it includes files newer than those included with the Mac OS 9.1 Update. A partial listing of the new files reveals:

* Date & Time 8.3.1; Keyboard 8.5.3; Sound 8.5.3; and Startup Disk 9.0.1 are updated control panels.
* MacOS ROM 6.7.1 is a newer version of this file than what comes in OS 9.1.
* DVD Player is now up to 2.5.
* USB Software is bumped to 1.4.8 and FireWire drivers to 2.8 [The FireWire drivers failed to show FireWire ports on both iMacs and PowerBooks. However, another reader found that the new FireWire drivers fixed his problem with a Umax 6450 scanner.]

So, if you installed the downloadable OS9.1 Update, you have an older version of the Startup Disk control panel than what is on the OS9.1 CD. There are some folks here that have the CD, mine is on order. Might be expensive to get from them however. k

Louie
02-01-2001, 07:33 PM
The Startup Disk Control Panel for 9.1 was finally rewritten in native language (RISC). I have the full CD and will extract the CP and upload it to our FTP site. The version from the CD is 9.0 and is called Startup Disk.

02-01-2001, 10:40 PM
Thanks, Louie

Mag (aka Dick)

"turn off your stupid third-party extensions, nimrod"

Gee, I thought I mentioned that it crashed with EXTENSIONS OFF, you asswad!

"SoftRAID 2.2.2 is working perfectly on all our machines here under OS9.1."

Did I say anything about SoftRAID. Did I? DID I! NO, short attention span boy!

"it's probably that ridiculous spellcheck utility you love so much, or PopChar, or ActionMenus, or Kaleidescope, or OneClick."

I use two of the four you mention, and I'm sure that others use some as well. We can't all be as cool as you, you fat little weevil.

"and disable Object Support Lib while you're at it."

Now you're insulting me.

Now then,
the thing that I found odd was the wording of the sentence from the MacFixIt site...

"Extracting a copy of the Startup Disk control panel from the Mac OS 9.1 Tome (using TomeViewer) and replacing it with the one that was crashing...."

Why would one replace the newly extracted one with the one that was crashing? Clearly, I think (hope) that they meant the opposite.

In either case, I shall try Louie's upload and see if I can get this to work.

http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/mad.gif

Louie
02-02-2001, 12:09 AM
The only way that could make sense is if the Apple installer porked the CP during installation. But, why not? Give it a shot. Don't forget to restart after you drop it in http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

jorge
02-02-2001, 08:13 AM
guys, Darin, you too http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I have a new G4 with many of the new files not included in the OS 9.1 update. Name the files and I'll email them to you. Uploading the files now to the ftp site. Folder is called "Updated OS 9.1 not on download".

j

[This message has been edited by jorge (edited 02 February 2001).]

magician
02-02-2001, 08:57 AM
all moved to the Apple directory on the FTP site.

thanks, guys!

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

02-02-2001, 09:50 AM
Well, after a clean installation off the real 9.1 CD and the swap of the latest Startup Disk control panel that Jorge uploaded, the control panel *still* crashes whether extensions are ion or off.

I just don't get it (which makes me go insane!). Any ideas? Might this be related to striped volumes? I'll try from a single fixed drive, but that shouldn't make any difference.

Between this and catching up on all XLR8 e-mail, I pulled my fourth all-nighter in 10 days. The hallucinations are beautiful, man.

http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/eek.gif

jorge
02-02-2001, 11:02 AM
d,

when your dog starts looking good, got to bed!

Try a clean install when you install OS 9.1 Clean your system folder!!!

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
j

Michael
02-02-2001, 12:44 PM
D & M
male to male hostility often masks desires deeply embeded in the psyche that the conscious mind refuses to acknowledge.
http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
M

02-02-2001, 02:42 PM
Michael,
you don't wanna go there.

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Jorge,
what an insult! You actually think that I... ME... Darin from XLR8... the poster child for the clean installation would not do a clean installation of 9.1? Shame shame! Now go play with your rat.

This friggin Startup Disk control panel still quits on me. I think it has something personal against me.

magician
02-02-2001, 03:14 PM
maybe it's those crap video cards you are running.

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Michael, it is abundantly clear that Darin desires me sexually. While I defend his right to pursue his lifestyle (I would prefer personally that he do so with a little more decorum), I cannot condone his objectification of my person. I am much, much more than just a hunk. I have a mind, and a personality, an intellect, and most importantly, I have feelings.

I myself don't swing "that way." (Why do you think Darin calls his Mac "swinger," anyway?) I enjoy the company of men, but not in that way. Am I to be crucified because the thought of Darin slobbering over Photoshopped pix of Sly Stallone's body with my head pasted on them makes me shudder? (I have a better physique than Sly, anyway. I'm REAL.)

Those of us who were not genetically programmed to desire the nasty, sweaty huddlings of sex with same-sex partners need to stand up for our rights. We deserve as much dignity and respect as those who frolic with their "roommates," and who have introduced such innovations to Western civilization as the "glory hole."

Just my opinion.

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Michael
02-02-2001, 11:02 PM
5-0 for mag.

M

MacMikester
02-03-2001, 01:23 PM
Hey Darin, I boot OS 9.1 with a raid on my 9600 and no crashes. I have one other system around (now also OS 9.1) on another disk and can switch between them OK with the Startup Dick Control Panel from the downloadable update. Butt......all manner of brown goo hits the cooling device if I startup inbetween off any OS 9.0.x system disk. Only way to recover is to reset NVRAM. Have you tried resetting NVRAM to see if your crashes will go away?

Darn spellchoker is gettin' all subliminal on me http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Miles
02-03-2001, 04:50 PM
The startup disk control panel crashing on older macs is a known problem:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Startup Disk crash on older Power Macs Bill Strohm writes: "On my PM8500/Newer MAXpwr 500 MHz G3, the new Startup Disk control panel crashes with either a Type 1 or Type 2 error and recommends restarting, whenever it is opened. No difference with extensions on or off." Replacing this with the control panel from Mac OS 9.0 was a successful work-around. We now have several confirmations of this bug.

Extracting a copy of the Startup Disk control panel from the Mac OS 9.1 Tome (using TomeViewer) and replacing it with the one that was crashing somehow eliminated the crashes for one user.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's from MacFixit here, about 1/3 of the way down the page. (http://www.macfixit.com/reports/macos9.1.shtml)

I had the same problem on my PowerWave, but it mysteriously went away, came back, then went away again.

Regards,
Miles

[This message has been edited by Miles (edited 03 February 2001).]

magician
02-04-2001, 02:58 AM
that's real odd. We have several, and I mean several, vintage Power Macs here, all upgraded to the gills, and we never encountered the issue.

needless to say, it runs seamlessly on New World Power Macs, including iMacs.

I guess I'm still wondering if something installed in the extensions folder is causing it. Holding the shift key down doesn't really ensure that nothing is loaded. Some stuff loads anyway. Booting off a MacOS CD-ROM is a better test. You KNOW that system folder is clean.

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

EGPoulin
02-04-2001, 09:42 PM
Ihad loaded 9.1 on my PCenter (xlr8 G3 400) and at first the startup control panel always crashed too. about 2 days later it got stable and that was it. I had installed and removed nothing in thoes 2 days.. just plumb went away for good!

I dunno, but It sure made me confused..

Really basic, but was the desktop rebuild? Norton? Disk Warrior?

~~~Eric~~~

chrismenke
03-08-2001, 03:45 PM
Okay folks, I'm stuck and need some help.

Configuration:
PowerMac 9500 132 with PowerLogix ZIF carrier and 266mhz G3
144MB RAM

SCSI Bus 0 (mobo internal):
ID0 - Apple 600i
ID7 - mobo controller

SCSI Bus 1 (mobo external)
ID 5 - Seagate ST410800N (SoftRAID 2.2.2 RAID 0, device 1, aka 'Honker')
ID 6 - Seagate ST410800N (SoftRAID 2.2.2 RAID 0, device 2, aka 'Honker')
ID7 - mobo controller

SCSI Bus 2 (PCI Jackhammer SE, slot 1):
ID 0 - IBM DCAS (SoftRAID 2.2.2 driver, aka 'Booter')
ID 1 - Seagate ST34573WC using the dreaded geniric SCA adapter (SoftRAID 2.2.2 RAID 0, device 1, aka 'Boot RAID')
ID 2 - Seagate ST34573WC using the dreaded geniric SCA adapter (SoftRAID 2.2.2 RAID 0, device 2, aka 'Boot RAID')
ID2 - Jackhammer controller

Now for the problem:
I can boot from 'Honker' or 'Booter', thus confirming that I can boot from an array, or a Jackhammer device, but try as I might, I cannot boot from 'Boot Raid', and I have freezes and problems after trying. Also, sometimes when I try to copy a system folder, I get a stopped watch system hang on the last file of the transfer. I know SoftRAID claims some problem's with upgrade cards, and I know that these generic SCA adapter have been the bane of many people's existences, but the adapters work well in another Mac.

I'm just stumped here....

Any thoughts should be posted here, but any definitive answers should be sent to me: chrismenke@excite.com

Cheers,
Chris

MacMikester
03-08-2001, 08:04 PM
Boy this is confusing, I don't know whether to post or email. post or email, email or post....Oh, heck, all definitive answers start out as thoughts, don't they?

Just because your generic SCA adapters worked in another config is no guarantee that they are up to the current task. Try Granite Digital, sold and endorsed by the Gurus for your best chance of success. Certain seemingly miniscule things like latencies, voltages and noise change from config to config.

The JackHammer is a great card but the latest version of the controller software (v.1.4.3) is only certified through OS 9.0.2; you don't indicate your OS.

Every termination setting on every drive and every cable is supect until proven otherwise.

It would probably be better to have the CD addressed at ID#3 for the sake of convention (and who really knows what else?)

I assume the JackHammer is really at ID#7. If not, this is the email candidate.

Regards

kaye
03-08-2001, 08:19 PM
MM,

He's running OS9.1. I know because I'm psychotic. k

Louie
03-08-2001, 08:24 PM
And, how is the JackHammer termination set in the Control Panel?

chrismenke
03-08-2001, 09:15 PM
Kaye,

You should know I'm running OS9.1 because that's the topic.

Louie,

The Jackhammer card has it's termination set to auto via the 1.4.5 control panel.

Louie
03-08-2001, 09:52 PM
Between SCA adapters, using JackHammer with a non-supported OS and having the JackHammer ID=2 should be more than enough to cause your problem.

chrismenke
03-08-2001, 10:28 PM
Well,

Two typos from my initial post.

The CD ROM on Bus 0 is at ID3.

The Jackhammer Card is @ Bus 2, ID7.

Outside of that I'm getting rady to admit it's the adapters, although I really wonder why a simple circuit which appears to do nothing more than translocate pins.

Same sorts of errors occured with pair of old trusty Conner drives. Will try supported OS, new ribbon cable, and my Proliant tower with SCA backplane (when it arrives).

Thanks for your thoughts!

kaye
03-09-2001, 02:05 AM
OK c, so how do you think I figured it out? k

chrismenke
03-09-2001, 12:59 PM
k,

Did "Topic: OS 9.1 and SoftRAID 2.2.2" have anything to do with it?

c

BTW: Here's an interesting happening, I keep an Excel spreadsheet open most of the time. When I use the Post a Reply form here, and said spreadsheet is open, I cannot get cursor activity in the Post a Reply form until I leave Navigator, quit Excel and come back.

magician
03-09-2001, 11:52 PM
damn.

try IE5 and see if it behaves differently. If not, you know it is probably an Excel problem. If it does....well, then it's NN.

what version of Excel are you running? I often work in Excel while web surfing and working on the forums. No problems.

chrismenke
03-10-2001, 03:31 PM
I just gained some insight on the Excel issue. It has to do with cursor control between Excel, NN 4.7, and some object lib that sapns the two. I have my speadsheet open (Excel 2001 BTW, cause I really love bloated slow software that makes loadsa slot machine noises and has a cute cartoon helper [remember when a spreadsheet was a business app]) and am able to post this, but I cannot control
my curscor by mouse, only by tabbing, and and arrows, and I connot select text. I tried this in some other forms, but cannot duplicate.

Odd huh?

chrismenke
03-10-2001, 03:36 PM
An update on my SoftRAID issue:

I can use the drives with an SCA-50 pin adapter I found, and they max out the speed of my internal SCSI bus, and boot reliably. Sadly, I have only on SCA-50 pin adapter, so cannot test RAID 0.

I'm going to use a single 4gb wide Barracuda for booting until the Proliat tower with backplane gets here, has it's Compaq logo stickered over with an Apple sticker, and is tested.

Will let y'allses (that's the plural of y'all for those with no redneck friends) know how things go.