View Full Version : External can be Internal?

01-26-2001, 03:11 AM
I have ATTO UL3D OEM version from Apple.
It is Dual Bus, I can see only 1 internel connector and 1 external one.
(Retail version of UL3D has 2 each internal and external, doesn't it?)
I don't use or have external device and would like to use this external bus internally.
So it mean that I can connect 2 drives to each bus internally.

Can I pull out the internal cable and connect to external connector if there is a space for cable to get out? Is it simple like that? Or any knowing issue not to do so? Or silly idea? http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/confused.gif

G4 500 DP
AGP and ATTO card only in PCI slots



01-26-2001, 05:28 PM
Mas...it sounds like you actually have a UL3S, a single-channel card. The UL3D, whether Apple or ATTO, has dual internal and external connectors.

01-26-2001, 05:58 PM
Well, It does look UL3S. At Apple Store web, "lean more" about Hard drive says "dual-channel Ultra160 SCSI".

I checked with ExpressPro-Tools, and it shows Bus 0 and Bus 1. Bus 0 has all my internal drives, Bus 1 has nothing.

Apple System Profiler shows UL3D.
There are 2 identical "slot - B, SCSI card" shown below the slot A (AGP), display card.

So it's diffinitely Dual Channel. It is Apple's, Internal and External means "dual"? http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/mad.gif

http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/confused.gif ????? http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/confused.gif

01-26-2001, 06:28 PM
my 2 cents,
if profiler only shows bus 0, and bus 1,
then isn't bus 0 your machines internal bus,
and bus 1 is your pci card's bus,
thus your pci card is only a single channel card.
the card may have an internal and an external connector, but it would still only be one channel.

if you have a dual channel card, then profiler should show,
bus 0,
bus 1,
and bus 2.

does this sound right to everyone else?
it sounds like you want one drive on the internal bus and one on the scsi card's bus. but to answer the question, you could drag a cable through and use it internally, but then again you have an internal connector and should use it, but you might have to get an adaptor.

[This message has been edited by professor (edited 26 January 2001).]

01-27-2001, 07:02 AM
you should have dual internal and dual external connectors. Keep in mind that the UL3D and UL3S use the same PCB board, the same connectors, and even the same chipsets. The UL3S only has one internal, and one external connector, however.

if you really do have only one internal and one external connector, you need to send it back to Apple. Regardless of what is reported by ASP, you do not have a UL3D.

01-27-2001, 12:38 PM
Can I pull out the internal cable and connect to external connector if there is a space for cable to get out? Is it simple like that? Or any knowing issue not to do so? Or silly idea?

There would be no reason to do this, IMO. A single bus U160 card can support up to 15 devices. Some or all can be internal and some or all can be external. I would only put about 4 U160 drives in a machine like that and I would only put Ultra2 drives or better on that card. Now I would assume it should work fine - with the right cabling. Simply connect an internal cable to your external connector and run it into the case somehow. Not sure why you would want to do this, but maybe I do not understand what you want to do?

The dual channel should have two connectors inside and out (4 total) is so you can spread ALL your internal drives off both channels (NICE for RAID) or run them all off the external channels - or again you can mix. U2 cards and newer do not need two channels to run drives externally and internall.

Of course if your ASP reports 2 scsi buses, I'm confused. Maybe its an OEM thing?

01-27-2001, 01:28 PM
Yes, It's OEM thing!

Apple says "With the dual-channel Ultra160 SCSI card, you can also connect external SCSI devices on the second SCSI bus without affecting the performance of your internally connected Ultra160 SCSI drives."

In addition, when I asked about ROM update 1.6.2 (from 1.6.1f1), ATTO said "Unfortunately, you cannot update the "OEM ATTO adapter" with true ATTO firmware. You may want to contact APPLE regarding any possible firmware updates." http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/tongue.gif

OK, nevermind... http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

01-27-2001, 03:07 PM
I wonder if the "cannot" means shouldn't. I know many pieces of hardware that "couldn't" be updated with firmware, etc. But I or others have succeeded. Voodoo cards, ATI cards, well, maybe they are mostly video cards. Just because Apple says you can't doesn't mean you can't. According to Apple, I still can't put 128MB Ram sticks in my 9600 or 7600. Have I? Yes. Any other ideas on whether this is an official warning or just an advisement that it is not supported?

01-28-2001, 01:24 AM
no idea about the firmware. I tend to listen and obey where firmware is concerned, especially if there is a possibility I will ruin a $500 card.

it is possible to run external slow devices off one channel of the UL3D, and theoretically not interfere with fast internal LVD devices running off the other channel. We've got customers buying weird cables with .8mm Champ connectors at one end, and 50-pin MIcroD and 50-pin Centronics at the other end, doing exactly this.

I think it's kind of a waste to do this....I mean, you could just get a Bluenote for $75 if you really need to do so....why waste a $500 card to run CDRW?

01-29-2001, 09:08 PM
I also have the UL3D Atto card from the Apple BTO program. (listed as dual channel)
It has 1 internal and 1 external connector.

Atto Express ProTools indentifies both channels. (bus 1 & 2)
It lists the type - ExpressPCI UL3D

Power Mac G4 (Gigabit Ethernet): SCSI Card Specifications (http://til.info.apple.com/techinfo.nsf/artnum/n58580)

01-30-2001, 01:59 PM

another example of Apple weirdness. They cripple a perfectly good card by giving you only one internal and one external connector, each for different buses. Apparently they don't want you to bus duplex with that card.

01-30-2001, 06:13 PM
Yea, it wasn't a bad price though.

$700.00 for the card and one Atlas 36 GB 10K mkII.

If you get more than one drive, the Apple Stores prices aren't as attractive.

When I eventually replace my AV machine, It will have to have the real dual channel card.

01-30-2001, 07:49 PM
BTW, not only Apple's ATTO card but also Apple's 10KII drive.
OEM is Rev.DD20, others from Quantum are DA40.
Different Rev. makes different performance according my benchmark.
Which is slightly slower? You know the answer.
I have 1 drive from Apple, 2 from Quantum. OEM drive makes more noise when it seeks.
I don't notice the huge difference anyway, I like them very much! http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
(but I won't do Apple OEM thing for next machine http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif ).