View Full Version : new powermacs & miles2?

01-13-2001, 08:46 AM
I'm going to order the new pm 733 shortly http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/kickass.gif and I want to transfer my four 10k cheetha's to the new machine. (2 intern/2ext in Gurus enclosure)
I was wondering if I'd be better of installing an Ultra Atto 160 or transfer the 2 Miles2 as well. Will I see a performance gain with the Atto in the new system? (currrent = 68MB/61.5 MB read/writes) Moving the Miles' + the other stuff that must be transferred will fill up all 4 pci slots so the Atto has the advantage of freeing up a pci slot for a future toy.
Last and most expensive option is the leave the stuff in (the 9500 will be transferred to a freelance employee) and pop in 2 15k Cheetha's and an Atto.
Thoughts anyone?

[This message has been edited by Ton (edited 13 January 2001).]

01-13-2001, 11:24 AM
I would seriously contemplate moving the drives over and buying an ATTO card. You should definitely see an increase in thruput with the new machine. The new G4's should have better PCI thruput, but that is yet to be seen first-hand. And it is always a good thing to free up a slot. Just my pennies, here. When I am in your shoes (this summer, hopefully) that's what I will do.

01-13-2001, 12:49 PM
The Miles2 works better in a vintage Mac than the UL3D. In a newer Mac, one UL3D dual channel will blow away dual Miles2. Dual X15s would fly with one UL3D. My $.02. k

01-13-2001, 01:18 PM

you will see about 80 MB reads, 80 Mb writes in the new machine with an Atto dual channel SCSI 3 with dual x15s. That is kick ass. Saw that in a Sawtooth and the new machines will be the same or better. Don't know if the x15s can push more data through only 2 drives on the new PCI bus.

The Miles2 runs out of breath @ 40 Mb write via a single board. The PCi bus looks like a single bus via that new Uni-N controler so bus duplexing cannot be done.


01-13-2001, 03:19 PM
Thanks guys fo the great advice.
I was already tempted by the dual x15s and the Atto.
I was not aware you wouldn't be able to bus duplex scsi cards in the new machines so that will make the decision a lot easier.
Those and the new machine will http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/kickass.gif

01-15-2001, 04:53 AM
definitely stick a UL3D in a new machine, Ton. It will definitely work better than a Miles2.

01-17-2001, 12:10 PM
Ok, now trying to fill in the details what to do and spent my dow as economical as possible (I'm cheap http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

1) Atto ULD 160
2)I want to put the x15's in an external Gurus enclosure.
Now the crucial question, how many?
Exploring the Gurus benchmark archives I found the following:

QuickBench¬ô 1.0.1 Test Results File
©2000 Intech Software Corp.
Test file created on Saturday, July 8, 2000 at 4:18:56 AM
Test Volume name: 2xST318451LW_UL3D_G4_500

Xfer Size Sequential Read Sequential Write Random Read Random Write

1 KByte 473.261 KB/sec 548.817 KB/sec 413.138 KB/sec 365.912 KB/sec
2 KBytes 2.014 MB/sec 1.155 MB/sec 1.029 MB/sec 643.687 KB/sec
4 KBytes 3.994 MB/sec 2.292 MB/sec 2.325 MB/sec 1.464 MB/sec
8 KBytes 8.060 MB/sec 4.462 MB/sec 4.531 MB/sec 2.488 MB/sec
16 KBytes 22.223 MB/sec 8.591 MB/sec 4.419 MB/sec 5.492 MB/sec
32 KBytes 34.796 MB/sec 16.597 MB/sec 10.546 MB/sec 10.279 MB/sec
64 KBytes 60.154 MB/sec 29.540 MB/sec 18.928 MB/sec 15.068 MB/sec
128 KBytes 44.000 MB/sec 48.780 MB/sec 26.438 MB/sec 33.606 MB/sec
256 KBytes 67.433 MB/sec 72.829 MB/sec 36.765 MB/sec 38.594 MB/sec
512 KBytes 71.675 MB/sec 78.320 MB/sec 38.169 MB/sec 40.508 MB/sec
1 MByte 72.830 MB/sec 76.343 MB/sec 48.606 MB/sec 51.152 MB/sec

QuickBench¬ô 1.0.1 Test Results File
©2000 Intech Software Corp.
Test file created on Tuesday, July 11, 2000 at 11:21:32 PM
Test Volume name: 3xST318451LW_SCUL3D_G4500

Xfer Size Sequential Read Sequential Write Random Read Random Write

1 KByte 761.267 KB/sec 556.297 KB/sec 419.059 KB/sec 484.778 KB/sec
2 KBytes 5.895 MB/sec 1.160 MB/sec 1.238 MB/sec 1.013 MB/sec
4 KBytes 5.617 MB/sec 2.383 MB/sec 2.635 MB/sec 1.929 MB/sec
8 KBytes 3.934 MB/sec 4.438 MB/sec 4.105 MB/sec 3.901 MB/sec
16 KBytes 9.109 MB/sec 8.561 MB/sec 6.775 MB/sec 7.649 MB/sec
32 KBytes 23.126 MB/sec 16.403 MB/sec 16.105 MB/sec 14.322 MB/sec
64 KBytes 44.845 MB/sec 28.668 MB/sec 10.663 MB/sec 24.348 MB/sec
128 KBytes 75.497 MB/sec 46.845 MB/sec 25.535 MB/sec 28.023 MB/sec
256 KBytes 94.945 MB/sec 71.701 MB/sec 34.882 MB/sec 49.525 MB/sec
512 KBytes 103.031 MB/sec 96.287 MB/sec 58.215 MB/sec 66.521 MB/sec
1 MByte 100.161 MB/sec 107.095 MB/sec 58.050 MB/sec 80.153 MB/sec

QuickBench¬ô 1.0.1 Test Results File
©2000 Intech Software Corp.
Test file created on Tuesday, July 11, 2000 at 11:39:00 PM
Test Volume name: 4xST318451LW_SCUL3D

Xfer Size Sequential Read Sequential Write Random Read Random Write

1 KByte 945.180 KB/sec 573.789 KB/sec 358.809 KB/sec 632.711 KB/sec
2 KBytes 6.028 MB/sec 1.198 MB/sec 1.841 MB/sec 1.291 MB/sec
4 KBytes 2.727 MB/sec 2.340 MB/sec 1.896 MB/sec 2.378 MB/sec
8 KBytes 49.952 MB/sec 4.572 MB/sec 6.545 MB/sec 4.586 MB/sec
16 KBytes 11.830 MB/sec 8.356 MB/sec 22.129 MB/sec 8.583 MB/sec
32 KBytes 16.174 MB/sec 15.224 MB/sec 40.203 MB/sec 16.409 MB/sec
64 KBytes 34.361 MB/sec 28.397 MB/sec 16.409 MB/sec 11.616 MB/sec
128 KBytes 77.385 MB/sec 47.035 MB/sec 31.815 MB/sec 35.679 MB/sec
256 KBytes 73.510 MB/sec 70.604 MB/sec 45.429 MB/sec 46.631 MB/sec
512 KBytes 91.481 MB/sec 96.102 MB/sec 59.822 MB/sec 78.046 MB/sec
1 MByte 106.135 MB/sec 114.705 MB/sec 76.425 MB/sec 78.320 MB/sec

The performance gain is huge going from 2 to 3 Cheetha's and relative small adding a fourth cheetah.

Am I right that spending nearly $500.- for the fouth Cheetah is not really worth the performance gain.

Btw the current dual Miles / 4 x 10k Cheetha setup perorms about the same as the 2x 15k /ULD 160, A bit higher in reads, a bit lower in writes.
Thanks, Ton

01-17-2001, 01:11 PM
Ton, those benchmarks were done using a single-processor 500MHz Sawtooth G4, an ATTO UL3D, and increasing numbers of X15's. The numbers don't lie. What I would say is, no one, at this point, really knows how three versus four X15's will stack up on a current revision Sawtooth, particularly one with dual processors, or one with these mysteriously referenced PCI enhancements that Apple touts in their site propaganda.


01-17-2001, 01:36 PM
Ok, Mag you're absolutely right that you can't use the benchmarks as an absolute figure when the x15/ULD 160 are used in a single or dual new architecture mac.
But relatively spoken, the differences would be more or less the same I would think. Just trying to make the right descision here and frankly I don't want to wait untill these new macs have arrived and benchmarked in each and every way.
Thanks, Ton

01-17-2001, 05:53 PM
I would find it hard to believe that a single miles2 with two 10k cheetahs couldn't handle both drives just fine. Then doubling that wouldn't seem too tough for a new G4. I think that I'd keep the cards, and if you're not satisfied with the performance when the 733 arrives in late March or so, if it's too slow, just sell those miles2's and get the Atto (or whatever is better by then).

I also have a question what Gurus box would you buy? Are you going to make just enough room for the two drives, or have extra space?

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01-17-2001, 11:35 PM
true, true. The only caveat I see, really, is that the Miles2 maxes out at 40MB/sec sustained reads, regardless of how many X15's you use.

01-18-2001, 01:48 PM
I'm a little suprised that the miles2 is the best U2W card for the mac out there. Less than six months ago you all lived and died by them. Doesn't anyone make a U2W card that works for the Mac that goes above 40MBps? It seems strange that the spec is 80MBps, but no card does half of that. Just curious...

01-18-2001, 07:25 PM
the Miles2 outperforms the ATTO UL3D and UL3S in vintage machines, not in New World. It's an architecture thing we have discussed ad nauseum in these forums for months now.

the only way to get beyond 40MB/sec sustained reads with a Miles2 is to use two of them, bus duplexed, in a six slot PCI Power Mac.

an ATTO UL3D or UL3S in a New World machine will blow away a Miles2 in a vintage machine. You get 40/40MB/sec, pretty much, off a single x15. Add another, and your thruput almost doubles, for both reads and writes. Yes, I'm saying you will get roughly 75MB/sec sustained reads AND writes off a pair of X15's running on an ATTO in a Sawtooth.

So. We still love the MIles2. In vintage machines. In New World machines, we prefer the ATTO, despite their higher cost.

01-18-2001, 08:55 PM

Magician means maxes out at 40MB/s in sustained "writes". Sustained reads continues on up as you add more drives. Three seems to be about the max in a vintage Mac. BTW, it looks like Initio is not going to produce an U160 or U320 card, at least not in the near future. k