View Full Version : Audio software reviews

07-11-2001, 11:01 PM
O.K folks: Tell us what your favorite audio app. is and, most importantly, why. Inquiring minds ( who haven't invested invested heavily in anything yet ) want to know! http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Safely behind the bleeding edge.

07-12-2001, 12:28 AM
i like sound forge and saw plus, although i would love to get my hands on a nice protools setup, cubase and a few other things. anything that to refine and manipulate those little waves.

07-12-2001, 02:44 AM
Peak LE is my favorite Macintosh application for recording music to hard drive for burning audio CDs. For example, I record live music and transfer files onto the Macintosh from my mini disc recorders with Peak LE (version 2.5.3, upgraded to 2.6 VST earlier this week). Then I burn CDs with Toast.

Peak LE has editing capability built-in (cut&paste audio, fades, normalization, etc), even supports plug-ins, but is priced well below $100. I think street price is still $70, which is exactly what I paid two years ago. Peak LE uses either the Macintosh built-in audio hardware or specialty digital cards.

BIAS, the company which produces Peak LE, frequently offers free upgrades, discount upgrades, and reasonably priced side grades to other BIAS products. BIAS tech support is quite pleasant and swiftly responsive. http://www.bias-inc.com

There's also Ultra Recorder, a _very_ stable shareware application for $25 that I LOVE! It's available on the web at http://members.aol.com/ejc3/Ultra.html
I used this application for stereo transfers to AIFF (CD audio song files) for over a year. It never crashed. Ultra Recorder works with the Macintosh's built-in audio ports, as well as specialty digital cards. The only limitation is that Ultra Recorder supports recording but no editing. If Ultra Recorder had normalization, fades, and compression, I'd still be using it instead of Peak LE. Did i mention that Ultra Recorder never crashes?

Before Ultra Recorder I used SoundEdit 16, a $150 commercial application from MacroMedia, still available but somewhat rare to find in the retail channels. This supports Macintosh built-in audio hardware. Hoewever, SoundEdit was never rewritten to take advantage of the new audio chips Apple uses on PowerPC Macs. SoundEdit recordings using PowerPC Mac's built-in audio don't come out as well as they did on 680x0 Macintosh built-in audio. But this affects only recording, not editing. I still use SoundEdit 16 for processing effects not included in Peak LE.

If you use SoundEdit 16, you must download the version 2.0.7 upgrade or it will fail on 68040 (or later) computers, and MacOS 8 or later. I'll upload this 2.0.7 upgrade to to MacGurus real soon now.

my free 7500 is nickel-and-diming me to death.

[This message has been edited by ricercar (edited 12 July 2001).]

07-13-2001, 07:13 AM
OK. I'm a former Logic user. I migrated to Digital Performer about a year ago because I liked their (MOTU's) hardware products. I went for the 2408 with its associated 324 PCI card. I'm using this with a pretty beefy 9600/350 which has the following; XLR8 500 G3, 2 18 G Cheetahs striped running off a miles2, 256 megs of RAM (just got another 256 yesterday http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ) I haven't maxed this setup out yet but I have had about 18 audio tracks along with midi tracks going at once. I'd like to see how many more audio tracks I can get going at once.
What do you think?

[This message has been edited by Randallx (edited 13 July 2001).]

07-13-2001, 09:09 AM
I think you didn't read the question http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/confused.gif Your post was mostly about hardware. What did you like and dislike about the audio software you've used? I know next to nothing about Logic.

[This message has been edited by ricercar (edited 13 July 2001).]

07-13-2001, 06:27 PM
that's a huge field. what kind of software are you referring to? shareware, recording, sound editing and manipulation, softsynths, effects, pug-ins....?

07-14-2001, 12:52 AM
Your right Michael, I probably should have been more specific. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

My interest runs toward mutitrack audio recording/editing. But eventually your going to want others to hear your work (at least I do) so file conversion/compression would be relevent as well. I'm not into MIDI at the moment, but that could change.

I'm currently using ProTools Free, mainly because it is. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Just trying to get something started here to find out what others are using and their experiences.
I still need to invest in some more hardware before deciding on an app.(RAM & video acc.).

Actually I was thinking of starting another thread for hardware. I'm very interested in MOTU's Firewire interface, but haven't found much from actual users.

Safely behind the bleeding edge.

[This message has been edited by M.Brane (edited 14 July 2001).]

07-20-2001, 02:22 PM
M.Brane, it seems you are again headed in the same direction I want to go, but ahead of me....glad you asked the questions cause I'm very interested in the answers.

07-23-2001, 02:18 AM
Bump http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Safely behind the bleeding edge.

07-24-2001, 10:29 AM
well, i can't talk about the MOTU's firewire product since i don't use it yet. i may consider it for my TI powerbook and convert it into a mobile studio. as others on these forums can attest, i am a pretty solid proponent of MOTU. after using their products for about 15 years, i am convinced that they are the best solution all around for digital audio. since they manufacture hardware and evelop software, their products work seamlessly. i have never had any major problems. and they are by far a less expensive but equally good alternative to digidesign. i have digital performer with their 2408 interface. this gives me 8 analog in, 16 adat in, plus spdif in for direct digital to digital. performer comes with a pile of pretty nice sounding plug-ins and the option to get more.
it's a fairly comprehensive setup at a fraction of what you would pay digi.

machine wise, digital audio is less dependant on speed than reliability though the faster your processor the more tracks you can have available. a G3 500 will give you anywhere from 12-16 tracks of mono 16 bit audio at 44 khz along with 3 0r 4 dgital effects, and all the midi tracks you want. that's plenty considering you will rarely use that many tracks at one time. HD space is essential. the more the merrier. here the fastest most reliable drives are recommended. while fast ide will work, most audio people still prefer scsi. seagate cheetahs running at 10,000 rpm are industry standards and will give you optimum performance.

07-26-2001, 02:44 AM
Thanks for the input Micheal.

I'm becoming more interested in DP. Seems there are quite a few users who have migrated from both PT & Logic. Wish they had a demo version to check it out firsthand. PT is OK but the learning curve is steep. I can usually figure stuff out pretty quick, but it's just the way the thing is set up. It's almost like you need a reference guide for the reference guide! I think they go too in-depth. It's like: don't tell the minutia of everthing you can do, just tell me what the controls are & let me figure out what to do with them myself. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

A lot of PT users are getting restless because of the lack of hardware developments at Digi. The firewire issue will be one to watch. With my 8500, it would be great if I can run a 828 off a USB/Firewire card. That leaves me 2 slots for LVD SCSI & a video card. Also I could collect stuff that I can migrate to a G4 later. With a $1k price drop, it's hard to resist getting one now, but I have other stuff to upgrade as well. The mics/ board that sounded OK with my PortaStudio are mediocre at best with the digital.

I've also been jonesing for a new motorcycle for about a year now. http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/eek.gif

Thanks again for your reply! http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Safely behind the bleeding edge.

07-26-2001, 10:53 AM
Digital Performer is a very intuitive program. anyone that's spent any amount of time with a mixing board and analog reocording machinne will immeadiately relate to the navigation setup in DP. i find DP easier to get up and running on than logic or digi.

Andy Richards
08-03-2001, 02:47 PM
I, too use SE 16 v. 2.0.7. And I like it.

I write and produce radio and TV commercials and some multimedia packages, so I don't need a lot of multi-tracking, but the effects they include in the package work fine. The ability to save to a variety of formats is very helpful.

Most of the recording work I do is done in studios, so I don't worry about that aspect that much.

However, ricercar made a comment about this software I'm a bit curious about.

While I used SE 16 on an old Quadra 660AV, recording was fine, but processing effects and screen drawing was very slow. Recording on a 1400/117 laptop was just awful, but it seemed OK on a 6100/66 -- maybe the lack of a cache on the 1400/117 had something to do with it? I noticed few problems with my Pismo 400. Then again, most of my recording work is voice scratch tracks for timing against video and music. Musical editing for me is nothing more than experimenting with levels and snipping a portion of a track here or there so it matches the video footage.

ricercar mentioned that SE-16 wasn't written to take advantage of the new audio chips in the PPCs. So, ricercar, were you talking about the regular sound circuits or the ones on the AV models which had extended capabilities? Also was it the chips or line levels that you had problems with? The 68k AVs and subsequent Power Macintosh models handle line-level audio directly, where the higher signal level improved the dynamic range. Previous Macs mic-leve input and needed a big boost. I use a little Mackie mixer to adjust levels so I had no problem with input levels.

Also something that affects sound are the input jacks. Until the PPC was released, none of the Macs I'm aware of had anything more than 1/8" Sony jacks. Models like the 7500, 8500 and 8600 AV had better 1/4" RCA jacks, which affect sound quality as well.

Outside of the 1400/117 and the sorry cache problem, and the 6100/66 and Pismo without an AV chip, I haven't noticed a big degradation in audio.

None of the Macs ever offered pro-quality audio, so is what you've noticed more hair splitting, or have I missed something?


08-16-2001, 03:02 AM
I'm having trouble locating the documentation explaining the exact difference in PPC audio hw vs 680x0 audio hw. This embarrasses me to no end, to fail with a bibliographic back up of my claim. I am still working on it... I am certain my source material was either the Powerbook Duo hardware developer notes or the Macromedia Deck 2.5 user manual.

The 680x0 AV machines may have the "new" audio chips. I have no background to comment. However, my memory suggests that the source doc explained the difference as 680x0 audio hw needed preamplification while the PPC audio needed attenuation, which is the reverse of Andy's hypothesis. :-(


my free 7500 is nickel-and-diming me to death.

08-16-2001, 03:35 AM
This may not be relevent, but I remember in some older games like Marathon having audio problems because their audio code was in 68K, so when played on a PPC, the code had to be emulated into PPC code before it could be executed. It sometimes caused stuttering and noise. So perhaps it is just a software issue where the app just needs to be optimised with PPC code. Hell, maybe not...

08-20-2001, 07:21 PM

I'll try not to be too windy, but:
The thing (good & bad) about PT's, is their supremacy of the full-blown MIX, MIX|Plus, and MIX3 (mix cubed) hardware systems which leads to a very wide base of compatible studio's anywhere you want to go (hey, when they surfaced some 10-odd years ago, they re-wrote the book of recording at that time).
What do I mean?
Say you really love studio "A" (which could even be your basement using the Digi001) for tracking at, but you hate doing your mixdown there. No problem, studio "B" has the room you can make the perfect mixdown in. Why? They've been around town the longest, and installed Mac/PT's setup's very early on because of their customers that were inquiring about it (a studio that keeps up with the technology, almost always seems to stick around for some unknown reason- hint sarcasim intended).
They got into into a "home-based" market with AMIII Toolbox, which originaly had Pro Tools D24(predecessor to the MIX systems), PT's III (a.k.a.-Project) AudioMedia, and DAE PowerMix (which was great to install to your Powerbook for doing field work) Engines.
Then they introduced the Digi001 and Pro Tools LE (this is what started the ranting and raving, because the above had not only the software for all different instances of PT's hardware, but even the AMIII engine had a Time Code Ruler).
The 001 and AMIII come without the humongous amount of DSP (as well as price), and thus, your CPU takes the hit for Plug-in EFX.

I will admit I've only used MOTU once in my lifetime and that was almost 4yrs ago (I don't even know what version it was), but they've got the 1st F/Wire interface in the market. Very cool for the new world Mac users, and at a price comparable to the 001 with way more I/O choices than Digi. Wide variety of plug-ins to choose from and *

A steep learning curve the first time I used it (I've used it two times more than DP), but once you've got it, very nice. Another wide availability of plug-ins, place your I/O of choice here__________________ and yet another *

Cubase (and all variants).
Steinberg. Whew. Ever tried working on a Deutsch version of one of these for the 1st time? (it was a really bad prank, but looking back on it, LOL)
Been around a long time, MANY plug-ins, EFX, Instruments, a classic. Also can use *

This is a reiteration of ricercar, Peak is a wonderful program (I also have the LE VST version and use it in exactly the same way, BTW, if you haven't gotten a email from BIAS, you need to upgrade or downgrade, if you didn't receive a message from BIAS, email me and I'll forward it to ya)
Adobe Premier EFX, VST EFX (comes with Waves Audio Track Shell, a great freebie for the price), SFX Machine Lite (make your own EFX), Digidesign AS (audiosuite) EFX and if you have the regular Peak (as opposed to LE) you have Sampler support, PT's Audio region import/export support, and am still waiting on a word about *

A little about *-
The new Universal Audio and TC Audio (different companies BTW) PCI, DSP plug-in cards.

Sorry I don't have the links to slap in here, but basicly these cards are Digital Perforfer and VST compatible PCI cards.
Basicly, these are a lot like Digidesigns 'Core' card, but, it's not propriety to Digidesign, just to any audio program that uses Digital Performer or VST EFX plug-ins.
For a fraction of the price of a new Pro Tools system, you have 2 card's utilizing massive DSP, that give you PRO-Studio quality plug-ins, don't bog down your CPU, and work with Digital Performer, Logic, Cubase and hopefully PeakVST (and LE).


"I made a conscience decision in a semi-conscience state"

08-20-2001, 11:26 PM
Hey billbo there you are! http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Thanks for your input(little recording pun there)!

You've obviously been around the DAW scene for a while. Do you see a trend developing with host based plug-ins taking over from the card based systems? Seems like Apple's hardware is headed that way.Perhaps with multi-processor Macs & OSX the TDM/Mix systems will eventually become obsolete. The thing that software can't do is quality input. You can only do so much with effects.Getting good sound into the program is the key.

What do you think about the controversy over the PT mixer. Do you notice a loss of quality when mixing internally? I don't but then I don't have a $10K set of monitors. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

I started out with nothing.
I still have most of it left!

08-22-2001, 12:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You've obviously been around the DAW scene for a while. Do you see a trend developing with host based plug-ins taking over from the card based systems?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1st off-
I'm originaly and most importantly a PA Eng.
Most of the studios I'm mixing in, don't have digital consoles, pro tools (mostly ADAT and 2" analog tape) or very good automation.

My first experience with Pro Tools was with version 1.5! The NuBus card didn't look anything like what they do now (ie-they looked quite wimpy and given the passage of time, that was in 1992, they were ungodly slow), and the only plug-ins at the time were the basic "DigiRack" plugs. Also, the list price for a full-blown PT's system circa '92 was somewhere around $20,000.00 +

As for the amount of 'host base plug-ins', that's a good question. There will always be a slew of them. I think because of the advent of the new T.C.Works and Universal Audio DSP cards (a wonderful idea BTW) any of the major players are going to have to keep developing and supporting them.
Here's at least one reason why-
Digidesign has already stated (thru U.A.) that they're NOT going to support RTAS plug-ins on the U.A. card.
This leads me to believe that they also will not support T.C.'s Power Core card (don't you hate propriety!!!).
I don't know about software like S.A.W., Soundscape or any similar products (I realize these are PC related, but, Plug-in's are having to be ported to both platforms these days) but I know that all the major plug-in players have somewhere around 6+ platforms to develop for (e.g.-VST, MAS, RTAS, AS, DirectX, TDM, + others that I'm forgetting).

Which is why I'm including this link and "the_anarch" -> http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000415.html quote:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You know, it's funny, we don't do a whole lot of rumor speculation around here. I guess we're just more geared toward making stuff that is available work, instead of wondering about stuff that isn't even out there yet, let alone whether or not it works...

Having said that, the only thing I've read about the G5 is that it's IBM who's the one working on it right now, and the Big Thing with it will be that it'll have the capacity to have multiple processors ON CHIP. This could lead to the possibility of having something like 32 processors in one box...

Can you guys imagine if someday we talked about adding processors to our machines as if they were RAM?

I can't remember where I read this, but it might've been the UK magazine MacFormat. I don't get the impression that they're real gossipmongers over there...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

With CPU's getting faster and faster, I think that host plug-ins will still be around for quite a while.

I still don't think that PT's TDM will become obsolete, even if Digi does or does not support X. The reason being that they are the DAW standard and are installed in more studio's globaly than any other program out there (I know it's a boisterous claim, but just look at any Post house, and 9 out of 10 will have PT's installed, and the one that doesn't, more than likely has a bunch of Fairlight's, Neve's, SSL's etc.....) I do believe that D.P., Cubase, and Logic are going to get a lot of Digi001/AMIII crossovers because of Digi's lack of "host-based" interest. Their main priority has, and always will be, TDM customers.

As for the differeintation of mixing internaly, I've never been able to hear much of a difference and besides, I like seeing my automation points, AND, a lot of local bands have given out demo's to clubs that they recorded in my little home studio.

However, I too don't have a pair of ten grand monitors to "hear" the difference.
I don't mix on real "monitors" at my home space, I use a horrible pair of Packard Hell powered (Monitor + )Speakers (I use a different 'monitor' than the P.Bell thank god).
As odd as it sounds to use such (excuse my terminology) shit, it makes it a blessing when I get to go into a real studio with real/good "studio" monitors.
My mixdown time decreases by at least 50% (if not more), and my clients like that.

Not that I have any mult-million national albums flooding the charts, but the people I work for are pleased, they pay me on time, and we're all generaly content with the finished product(s). Which is why we're all in this, correct?


"I made a conscience decision in a semi-conscience state"

[This message has been edited by billbo (edited 22 August 2001).]

08-27-2001, 12:38 AM
Thanks Bill for your enlightenment. I'm new to all this and still learning. Forunately I have a knack for hardware config. it's the software that I struggle with at times. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

I'm a guitar player that ended up as a singer & engineer by default(nobody else in the bands would/could step up. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif My approach to recording is the opposite of my guitar rig: the only thing that should be between a mic & the recording media is the necessary preamplification, and it should be as transparent as possible. I run enough analog effects on my guitar to make up for it. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Plug-ins are for minor tweaking/icing on the cake.

As I haven't invested in any audio-specific hardware yet,I'm just trying to get an idea of what will give me the best quality for my money. Would love to have a TDM but unless I win the lottery I doubt I will. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

PTF is actually very cool when you consider the price. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif The fact that I could take my sessions into a real studio (with those $10K monitors) is an added bonus if /when I get to that point. No point in doing that until I upgrade my front end.

I'm interested in the FW stuff for slot-saving & future portability. Digi has been suspicuosly silent on this issue. I figure they're either up to something cool or they couldn't care less. Hopefully it's the former.

One thing I am fortunate to have is a good freind who happens to be an awesome drummer & songwriter, as well as a pretty good guitarist/keyboardist(I can't play keys to save my life-the notes are all in line). http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Thank again Bill for taking the time to help out a newbie! http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I started out with nothing.
I still have most of it left!

08-27-2001, 08:14 PM
No problem M.Brane. Glad to have helped. I was originaly a bass player. I'm a vintage guitar/EFX-pedal collector (expensive hobby, that's why I don't have many) and a PA guy that didn't have any other choice but to become one.

I think for getting your feet wet, running PT's Free is your best-bet. I wish that I had that option back in 1992 (the first time I ever encountered PT's). Macs back then were like $5000.00plus and Pro Tools was some godly amount (I believe it was 20-G's, aren't you glad you're getting into this 9 years later?).

Good luck, and if you have any problems, keep using forums such as this or the Digidesign User Conference.

Or drop an email if you'd like.


"I made a conscience decision in a semi-conscience state"

08-27-2001, 08:37 PM
gents, thanks for the good thread. I am learning a lot from you!


08-27-2001, 11:54 PM
Bill: Analog effects pedals http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/kickass.gif !

I don't have a lot either, but what I do have I cherish. Especially my '80 TS9 (bought new-it's been around and looks it but sounds great!) my old('7?) Ross flanger(great chorus sound!) Morley power wah fuzz(worst fuzz EVER!) MXR analog delay(echoplex tone w/o the tape maint.) Uh-oh... getting off topic. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Magician: Your welcome. Where ya been? Also off topic: just got up & running w/my 2 sticks of Guru's 128MB FPM DIMMs. They didn't play nice w/my old 16MB sticks though-had to pull'em(the 16's-startup chime but black screen and nothing else). 256 seems a little snappier than 96 though. Will run Powercontrol/Powerfrax test overnight.The real test will be how much stuff I can have open at once. http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/cool.gif

I started out with nothing.
I still have most of it left!

08-28-2001, 02:11 AM
I love collecting those old pedals. Actually, I have the best fuzz pedal ever hand produced. It's an old (late 60's-early 70's) Vox Tone Bender that beats the hell out of all of my Big Muff (pi')s.

Coupled with a 1949 Les Paul Jr. (original P-90 that's been rewound three times, god I beat the hell out of that thing) through a 1963 Orange a Memory Man and a UniVibe of course, we're talking serious TONE Galore!!! I've never really liked Wah's (I jump/move around too much) but do have one of the Vox re-issue's.

Unfortuantly, I have had to learn the maintenance of the Echoplex. Fun as hell to play with though. Especialy if you hook a Theramin up to 'em.

Yeah, the LP and the Orange was complete luck, picked 'em up at a Estate sale for $500.00 (for BOTH!!!). It was at a house out in the boonie's, so nobody in the music scene here had any idea what was there for the taking. The widow had lost a son to 'Nam, and her husband died, so she was moving into a Retirement home closer to her daughter. I couldn't believe they had those pieces in his bedroom for 21 years. The only other "vintage" stuff I have isn't as golden as those two, but I have:
a old UniVox/Mosrite Ventures copy short scale bass
b old Kay P-Bass
c (not sure about the year, but definetly '70's) Tempo (kind of like the Teisco's) electric
and my 1967 Gibson LG-0 acoustic.

I don't know where you live, but if you ever get a chance to attend a vintage guitar show, go on the LAST day of the event. That's when all the wheeling-n-dealing happens, because they want to get rid of as much as they can before loading up and driving ___-amount of miles home with all that expensive gear in tow.


"I made a conscience decision in a semi-conscience state"

08-28-2001, 11:20 PM
interesting comments. i use to do the die-hard vintage thing. bought my first serious axe in '73. it's a '63 SG. still have it. also had one of the first mesa boogies. a mark 2. till it was stolen. then i went out to buy another guitar and 'natch i started looking for a vintage instrument. only i didn't expect to have to take out a mortgage to buy one.
actually, the whole vintage thing has gotten out of hand. instriments being bought up by collectors who artifically inflate prices by driving up demand and then hiding the items in glass cases hoping to cash in. i'm sorry but $60,000 US for a '58 les paul?
i could buy a house for that money. or how about 10 fantastic state of the art hand made guitars that will and do soundlike a les paul, a strat, a tele,...in fact.... you name it. and besides they always stay in tune. More than i can say for a lot of old guitars i've played. anybody who believes that vintage instruments are the absolute and only best has never played a top of the line PR smith or a Parker or a mcnuff. These instruments are like BMW M-5s or ferraris. now for that 'vintage' amp sound try a POD. it has computer modeling of about 30 vintage amp setups including amps you will never see like soldanos and dumbles. run it straight into the board and kiss your rack of pedals goodbye. not to mention lugging that back breaking amp around. i know, i still have a rivera 60m watt perside stereo amp. it weighs a ton and subsequently sits in my closet more and more often.
who says all progress is bad?

08-29-2001, 08:24 PM
'63 SG- sweet! http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

My take on the whole vintage gear craze:

To me there are two classes of vintage instruments: the pristine, unmolested collector pieces and the beat-up, modified ones. I don't even look at the first kind because A: I can't afford 'em and B: the reason most of these are in such good condition is because nobody who picked 'em up thought they played well. The ones that people played and liked are more likely found in the second class. I have 3 Flying V's, 2 Gibsons and an Ibanez. I didn't set out to collect Vees, it just worked out that way. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif None of them have much collector value due to cosmetic damage and mods, but I love 'em all.

As far as the amp simulaters go, they sound great. However I just don't get the same feel from them as I do from my Mark III simulclass,Super or JCM800. Yeah they're heavy and expensive to maintain, but there's something about that physical connection between my finger on the string & the air moving in front of the cabinet that the simulaters can't reproduce. Back in the early '90's I thought I would retire my old pedals with a Roland GP16. I took about 6mos of tweaking to discover that no matter what I did, it just couldn't get the same feel as my analog setup. The Roland now lives in my PA rack as a very expensive delay/reverb.I have tried some of the newer boxes & while they do sound better, to me they still suffer from lack of feel.

I started out with nothing.
I still have most of it left!

08-30-2001, 05:22 PM
it's all very subjective and therefore lots of fun......
my SG is also beat up and far from stock. it's been upgraded as mauch as i can go. my single coil pickups are noisy as hell and so make life difficult because i wanna' play high volume, overdriven guitar now.
that's why i'm looking at some of the newest instruments. incredible output, playability, and overall cool factor. the older you get the more you want something to work without too much fuss and muss. we get lazy i guess, or tired.....
flying Vs. ever tried playing one sitting down?

09-01-2001, 02:45 AM
Playing Flying V's sitting down requires one goofy looking trick. Play it with it resting on the inside of your thigh.

I have a buddy of mine that has a 68 SG Triple Humbuck w/Bigsby, which is one of the most rarest SG's you can find. Why? For some unknown reason, Gibson chose not to dot the "i" on the headstock (or someone screwed up really bad the production process at Gibson stamped those out for a whole year LOL) that year.

As per newer Guitars, Amp modelers, and vintage guitar prices;

I agree with you Micheal, they play much better than many-to-most stock vintage pieces (especially the 193x-59 era) and are definetly a lot quiter. And, as you said <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>...didn't expect to have to take out a mortgage to buy one.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

2-Amp Modelers.
A GODSEND if you live in a apartment situation. However, one thing that's near impossible with them, is feedback. I have feedback down to science and art form (with a 100 watt Orange and such an old LP single-coil, you have to be on top of things LOL) and it's actually a part of my creative process.
BUT, I don't have a AC-30, HIWATT, (I do have a pre-CBS Vibro Champ/Suede that I picked up this afternoon at a garage sell for $75.00 and I even had replacement tubes for it!!!) Marshall_______(there's been so many different Marshall's that came out so early on, I won't subject my fingers to a gruesome torture) etc...

3-Vintage Guitar prices.
You know, if it wasn't for that pretentious G.Gruhn (and MANY old geezer's like him) I think that the vintage market pricing would be geared towards the "knowing" musician crowd. People like 'Late Baby Boomers'-to-'OnTheCusp Gen-X'ers' that have recorded on Ampex TUBE 4-TRACK's (or similar variants) and similar OLD WORLD gear. YES, I have chopped/sliced,slipped,recorded on tape backwards, and I'm only 27. Unfortuantly I can't do anything about it. So I do a lot of searching with my fingers crossed and like today, Lady Luck indeed likes to shine on me every few years (it was in 1989 I picked up the Orange at a estate sale).
However, these new Custom Shop guitars, are more expensive than most "mint" guitars. I really don't know where to stand on these things. They have the cleaniness and quietness of new world guitars, but the wear-n-tear and paint crackling of a vintage piece that was a "player" guitar.

To anybody that wants cheap collectors pieces, (Gibson)Melody Maker's, Kalamazoo's, (Fender)Mustangs and Coronado's and old Uni-Vox stuff. Not the best Gibson's and Fender's ever made, and the Uni-Vox's were all "copies" of some sort, but you can find them pretty cheap. And you just know that sometime in the future some new pop-sensation is going to be seen playing one, and WHAM, you have a gold-mine!!!


"I made a conscience decision in a semi-conscience state"

09-01-2001, 03:47 AM
Feedback is essential. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif that's what the biggest problem is with the digital stuff.

My solution to the noisey pickup issue was to install EMG 89's in my '84 Gibson V. These are the dual mode ones, and work great. I can crank the gain up near full on my Mark III & nothing but tube hiss until I move a string. While nothing can substitute for true single coils, the 89's cop a very convincing Strat tone & the lack of hum/noise makes 'em great for gig duty.

I wish I hadn't been spoiled, but being a late boomer(36) I grew up playing through tube stuff (my first amp was an old Silvertone) at high volume. Guess I'm doomed to a life of tube/capacitor replacement. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I started out with nothing.
I still have most of it left!

09-05-2001, 01:34 AM
I agree, feedback is indeed essential!!!

As for noisy p/up's, I remember recording at a studio next to a radio tower, and the solution to killing the radio reception through my Orange, was wrapping aluminum foil around the head like 6 times!!!!

Needless to say, it worked. I actually had one of those Silvertones with the Amp/Case!!

However, I traded it for one of my Big Muff Pi's http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


"I made a conscience decision in a semi-conscience state"

09-28-2001, 06:12 PM
I started out in 1985 with a BBC Model B Micro with UMI 2B hardware/Software solution. The software came on an EPROM which was lucky seeing as the BBC Micro was a 32K machine!!! The software gave you 16 tracks of midi with both step and realtime input. The Hardware had two midi out ports that you could assign either all 16 or split the midi tracks.. this was a real feature that help with midi timings - particularly if you didn't have a midi patchbay and had to chain all your instruments. It also had a Sync 24 output, a start/stop jack trigger in/out and a tempo control knob, not to mention dedicated buttons for start, stop, record, rewind.

Vince Clarke ( Depeche Mode, Yax[Yazoo] and Erasure) recorded the first 3 Erasure albums using it. Depeche Mode used it during the recording of Black Celebration and Music for the Mases.

I then moved on to the Atari 1040 STe in 1988 using Steinberg's Pro 24 !!! Woohoo...

I then stayed with the Atari but in 1992 moved to C-Lab's ( then Emagic) Notator... I also dabbled with Passports Master Tracks for a while and with Cubase.

Then in 1994 I took ownership of a Quadra 700. I increased the RAM to 20Mb for a staggering cost of $200 and put in an Audiomedia II card. I then bought Logic Audio 2.6

I was blown away !!! Especially when I added a Quantum Fireball 2Gb drive.

But even then, although the midi spec was everything I needed I was limited on the Audio side... 4 track ( AudioMedia card limit) and no DSP !!

This set up did me until this year... Even managed to put out several commercial releases... ( had to bounce 4 audio tracks down to CD then bring them in as a two tracks...!! then start again... managed to end up with a composite of 18 tracks once !! )

Rather than buy a nice shiny new G4, a Motu etc I spent the last two years spending the best part of $10k on upgrading the rest of the studio...

At last ... I have finally got round to the MAC.

But rather than buy a new G4 I managed to acquire a 8500 with 17" ( my old EZO blew up!) for only $250. I just acquired a Newer G4 450Mhz and am upgrading the RAM to 336Mb. I am going to make do with the 8500 own Audio!

Getting back to the TOPIC .. software.. I toyed with the idea of upgrading to Logic Audio Platinum 4.7 but will wait until January for V5.0 with full a mxing automation !!!

Can't wait to get my hands on the Plugin effects... still, you'd think having 9 outboards would be enough ??? Never !!!