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doctormelodious
03-26-2002, 01:57 PM
Greetings,

I am SO CLOSE to getting this to work, but it's still wonky. First, my setup:

8500/150 (or whichever one had the 50MHz bus speed) tower
Sonnet Crescendo 400MHz G3
MacAlly PCI FireWire/USB Card (3 FireWire & 2 USB)
Adaptec PowerDomain 2930 Ultra (narrow, 50-pin) SCSI card
1GB RAM (interleaved)
Quantum Fireball Ultra SCSI drives (two 2GB and one 4.3GB)
Glyph external Ultra Wide SCSI drive w/68-to-50-pin adapter (9GB)
OS 9.0.4 (with all extraneous extensions off)
Sony DSR-PD150 MiniDV cam

After much experimenting, I have been able to capture DV at 100% quality, without dropping frames, to any of the Quantum drives on either SCSI bus, or to the Glyph on the Adaptec bus. The problems lie with the playback.

Playback from the Glyph drive is a mess. Every second or so I get this gray checkerboard effect all over the video monitor connected to the DV cam. I assume that the PCI bus just can't keep up with having to read from the drive through the Adaptec card and spit out FireWire through the MacAlly card. I do find that odd since the same thing works fine when I'm capturing, but perhaps reading is more intensive than writing.

Playback from the Quantum drives -- when they are on the good ol' 5MB/sec internal SCSI bus -- ALMOST works. I'll get maybe 10 seconds of smooth video, and then it momentarily hangs on one frame until it catches up with itself.

I have tried reformatting the 4.3GB Quantum drive with FWB drivers and upping the minimum block size to larger and larger numbers (gave up at 200K). Still no dice.

I would greatly appreciate any suggestions for remedying this situation. It's so close, it seems like there's gotta be a way to get it to work. A couple of questions come to mind:

1. Do I need a different FireWire card?
2. Do I need different drives?
3. Does PCI slot choice play a role in this? Which slot is the "bus master", and which card (Ultra SCSI or FireWire) should go in it?
4. Would this work better with OS 8.6? Is 9.0.4 slowing me down?

Thanks in advance for any insight into this problem.

Regards,
DoctorMelodious

M.Brane
03-26-2002, 11:44 PM
I'm no video expert but the thing that jumps out at me is the Adaptec card and the adapted drives. I've got a Seagate 18GB narrow on the stock internal bus (10MBps http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) on my 8500 ( originally a 120, now with 400mhz XLR8) and it does over 9MBps. I can open about 6-8 QT videos before it gets glitchey.

lech2
03-27-2002, 05:18 AM
Some people said that vor video processing the only Processor-card you can rely on is the XLR8 - Mach ...

doctormelodious
04-01-2002, 07:00 AM
Hi M.Brane,

Thanks for the reply. What kind of Seagate drive are you using (Cheetah, Barracuda, etc.) that gives you 10 on the internal SCSI bus? I thought the internal bus was only 5MBps. With the Quantum drives I get 5-6 on the internal bus and 11-12 on the Adaptec card bus.

Also, any other opinions about Sonnet vs. XLR8 for video work? (Thanks Lech2, by the way.)

Regards,
Perry

M.Brane
04-01-2002, 11:13 PM
Perry, the drive I run is the only new narrow you can get. It's the first one listed on the Guru's Seagate page: http://www.macgurus.com/shoppingcart/showrampage.cgi?mg_hdseagates.html

Here's how it looks with iTunes and Netscape running:

QuickBench¬ô 1.5 Test Results File
©2000 Intech Software Corp.
Test file created on Monday, April 1, 2002 at 7:07:04 PM
Test Volume name: Work

Xfer Size Sequential Read Sequential Write Random Read Random Write

1 KByte 798.722 KB/sec 351.222 KB/sec 132.864 KB/sec 224.075 KB/sec
2 KBytes 1.449 MB/sec 679.071 KB/sec 292.124 KB/sec 284.900 KB/sec
4 KBytes 3.361 MB/sec 1.498 MB/sec 496.931 KB/sec 827.027 KB/sec
8 KBytes 3.919 MB/sec 2.430 MB/sec 1.050 MB/sec 2.203 MB/sec
16 KBytes 5.705 MB/sec 3.330 MB/sec 1.823 MB/sec 3.409 MB/sec
32 KBytes 5.523 MB/sec 5.234 MB/sec 2.287 MB/sec 5.023 MB/sec
64 KBytes 6.429 MB/sec 6.841 MB/sec 4.110 MB/sec 3.983 MB/sec
128 KBytes 7.999 MB/sec 7.701 MB/sec 5.756 MB/sec 7.054 MB/sec
256 KBytes 8.044 MB/sec 8.199 MB/sec 6.268 MB/sec 7.603 MB/sec
512 KBytes 7.706 MB/sec 8.601 MB/sec 7.391 MB/sec 8.296 MB/sec
1 MByte 8.306 MB/sec 8.625 MB/sec 7.810 MB/sec 8.444 MB/sec

Extended Test Size: 2 MB Read: 8.121 MB/sec Write: 8.978 MB/sec
Extended Test Size: 3 MB Read: 8.126 MB/sec Write: 9.062 MB/sec
Extended Test Size: 4 MB Read: 8.141 MB/sec Write: 9.186 MB/sec
Extended Test Size: 5 MB Read: 8.244 MB/sec Write: 8.903 MB/sec
Extended Test Size: 6 MB Read: 8.249 MB/sec Write: 8.933 MB/sec
Extended Test Size: 7 MB Read: 8.300 MB/sec Write: 8.962 MB/sec
Extended Test Size: 8 MB Read: 8.313 MB/sec Write: 9.053 MB/sec
Extended Test Size: 9 MB Read: 8.326 MB/sec Write: 9.047 MB/sec
Extended Test Size: 10 MB Read: 8.325 MB/sec Write: 9.066 MB/sec

This is the 1st patition on the drive, the one I use for audio files.

Never had a Sonnet product. My XLR8 400 G3 has been totally stable with ProTools. I never mess with video (no camera http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif ) just download QT's I find on the web. Mostly motorcycle stuff. Fun to watch those squids make fools of themselves! This guy has some cool stuff:
http://www.wrenchwhore.com/video/video.html

DHB
04-10-2002, 02:18 PM
doctor...

I'm amazed you've gotten as far as you have.
You sure seem to be tottering on the edge success.

Your 2930 Ultra card has a theoretical throughput of 20 MB/sec.

I'm not real familiar with an 8500, but if there are TWO internal scsi connectors, then one connector is one end of the external bus (5MB/sec) and the other is the internal-only one (10MB/sec)...just like the 9600s have.

miniDV requires a SUSTAINED throughput of a bit less than 5 MB/sec for coming off the camera (& going back to it). They are NOT overstating the case when SUSTAINED is mentioned.

However, generally, an "AV"-rated hard drive is required (such as some later Seagates, Atlas Vs, 10K IIs, etc.) for all-around success. These drives usually have 2 meg onboard caches or larger & a special type of temperature compensation method (don't recall the term). This is probably where your playback problems reside...wait until you try to send output back to the camera. http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

I don't know zip about Sonnet products...may be a negative factor here too.

Again, my knowledge of the 8500 (I assume six pci slots) is vague...but...

I'd try your fastest drive alone on the 2930U card & dedicated to the video files

put scsi card in slot 1
put the FW/USB card in slot 4 (the two bus master slots)
No USB devices or other FW devices if using the camera for up/down load

Realize that just one hour of miniDV takes over 12 Gig of disk space.

You might just get by with the above.

However, a more proven config is something along the lines of what I've just recently built for my 13-yearold...

PM9600...256M ram, xlr8 G3 @397mhz, bus @52mhz
Adaptec 2040u2w scsi card (LVD) in slot 1,
with an Atlas V 18 gig dedicated-to-video (4 Meg onboard cache, FWB drivers)
Boots off a 50-pin Seagate drive on the internal 50-pin bus (10MB/sec)
Toshiba 40x cd-rom
xlr8 firewire card in slot 4
Radeon PCI in slot 5
Mac OS 9.0.4

I've created a monster...iMovie2 and my JVC 9500 miniDV camcorder are going every day...he's doing stuff that looks like the kid's skateboard video that Jobs showed at the last MacWorld (January?)...except he has a lot of them...and needs more disk space...& my big-mouthed 16-year old told him that Dad has four 36 Gig Atlas 10K IIs he's not using right now...sigh.

From what I"ve seen with miniDV on four or five G3-accelerated legacy Macs the phrase "SUSTAINED throughput" is the best mantra to use while trying to 'be-like-Steve' on-the-cheap. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

doctormelodious
04-10-2002, 02:58 PM
DHB,

Thanks for your very thorough reply. I think you might have hit the nail on the head re: "sustained throughput." The next step would be to try an AV-rated drive, as you suggest.

Regards,
Perry