View Full Version : OX X Boots loads 9 from 60 gig but not my 40 gig?

03-13-2002, 09:54 PM
I recently got a QS 733 with 896 MB RAM a 40 gig Seagate and 60 gig IBM. I set them up identical to each with a 1.5 gig partition with only OS X on it, and the remainder with 9.2.x and my files/apps. Everything was a clean install at the same time. The 40 gig OS X opens fine it just won't let me open my 9.x files/apps - like with the 60 gig drive.

I have been playing with X and using the 60 gig OS X as startup disk. Enjoy it. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Everythings been fine for the 3-4 days. So tonight I thought I would try using the 40 gig OS X to startup - and it said I needed version 9.1 or higher to open Classic. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Thanks, Randy

[This message has been edited by rwm2 (edited 13 March 2002).]

03-13-2002, 10:02 PM
Hey Randy,

I also had some strange stuff happen with classic. las vegas, who knows too many thngs to be one person, says it's most likely we crashed out or hard booted out of OSX while classic was running.

I don't know about that but my system always shows OS9.2.2 as being 9.1 after I boot from classic. You might try doing an overlay type install of 9.2.2 on your drive and see if that helps. Never hurts since it just replaces files and leaves everything in place.


03-13-2002, 10:06 PM
I have had zero crashes on this machine so far.

The 40 gig was 9.2.1 so I upgraded to tried 9.2.2 - same problem.


03-14-2002, 09:57 AM

OS X needs to have a Classic System Folder selected in Startup Disk sometimes in order to use it - especially if it hasn't been booted from.

My 9.2.2 would always show "9.1.1" after it added Classic compatibility extensions.

I don't use IDE but I've read that OS X 'should' be on the master and not on a slave drive. The 1.5GB is 'enough' but maybe a little cramped. Might want to waste some space for all the moving around of files that OS X likes to do and just to allocate space.

How did you install OS X to both drives? Installed or using CarbonCopy or something else? CCC works fine and will be bootable as it recreates all the necessary links needed and blesses the system properly (ie, modifies the boot blocks to recognize the system).

Sounds like a fun machine. There seem to be too many users even with QS 933's having trouble with 10.1.3 and wish they had kept a copy of 10.1.2.

Putting /Users on its own drive (for I/O), or its own partition, makes cloning, backup, and keeping your Library intact.

If you change the startup disk to the Classic system folder you want, save changes, then go to the Classic cp, you should be able to select it. Sounds like the Desktop information needs to be updated or something.


03-14-2002, 02:34 PM
My 40 gig is set as the "Master drive" and the 60 gig is the "Slave drive".

Both drive installs were done at the sametime - or one after the other via CD's that came with the machine. I gave OS X a 1.5 gig partition on each drive. I started using the OS X from the 1.5 gig partition on the 60 gig drive - It has been fine. Opening "classic" from the OS 9.2.2 " on the remainder of the 60 gig partition. The machine has never had a lower version than OS 9.2.1.

I did transfer all my 7500 files/apps/system which had OS 9.1.x on it to the larger partition on the 40 gig to a holding folder - most has been tossed now.

It's like owning two cars - I just tried to startup the backup one and...and no go? My OS 9.2.x versions have never came back as 9.1.x like what seems to have happened to you and Rick at times.

I found a setting in OS X started up from the 60 Gig that allowed me to startup from the OS X on the 40 gig - it said it needed to transfer and install some files for "classic" it seemed to do this fine but no go with using the 40 gig OS X partition as the startup.

I am thinking of installing OS X again on the 1.5 gig partition on the 40 gig. If you think I really should give OS X more room than 1.5 gig let me know now!!! But why does OS X on the 1.5 gig partition work on the 60 gig drive and not the 40 gig. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif


[This message has been edited by rwm2 (edited 14 March 2002).]

03-14-2002, 03:58 PM
I got it. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Thanks, Looks like I was on track lastnight but just did not read things right - too tired. I never had the "Classic System Folder" right - or I don't think so.

Thanks, guys for the input.

03-14-2002, 05:14 PM
You may want more than 1.5GB later. Dev Tools takes up 500MB. Keep the volume 50% free seems to make sense. A gig or two won't kill ya for space, will it?

for me, why install twice when I can do it once and clone the system - maybe later set up one for XWindows or Darwin testing or something, or just for emergency use.

Don't forget "X" will (always try) to startup in OS X, Option gives you the Startup Manager screen.

Startup Disk control panel writes out some boot code to the drive to 'bless' that partition's system folder. it's really just ye olde "System Picker" now part of Open Firmware code.

Glad you got it running!


03-14-2002, 06:08 PM

I got lots of space - space I don't even know what I will do with. I could initiliaze the drives again and partition one or both different - Fix the 60 gig up -- it is sorta just there. I do not need anything on it. Do you agree with having OS X on a partition by itself? How large of partition would you give OS X? Some members out here have just split thier drives? I know it's a matter of opinion and uses. I don't have enough uses to begin to tax the QS 733 or my stoage - and lack the knowledge to know and forsee whats going on with OS X.

I am trying to eliminate the redundancy of coping/installing/setting up again....

I have read some of your posts about cloning/carbon copy.... Please direct me to some of them. I need to learn this sounds great - and get any needed software.


03-14-2002, 07:11 PM

What would I give OS X? I've tried small (it works), full drive (okay also) but 7.9GB, first volume has the advantage of being able to erase, keep it on the outer tracks, doesn't matter if it is highly fragmented, you can still repair other volumes.

I prefer to use OS X's Disk Utilty to do the partitioning. I found that a full OS X ended up using ~3GB. Probably best to keep your applications on another drive.

Drive #1: System (Applications, Developer)
Drive #2: /Users
Drive #3 Your Software, Installers, Images, Emergency system

A 2GB disk image and use CCC to make a copy of OS X with all the basic software - clean virgin system. You might want TWO. One with just 10.1, and one with 10.1.3. I was able to get a minimal OS X system into 1GB disk image.

CCC (http://www.bombich.com/software/ccc.html) How to use CarbonCopyCloner. CCC requires 10.1.2 or later.

Software Updates and utilities:

##### Recently Posted Apple Software (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=75150) #####

>>> MacFixit OS X Utility Picks (http://www.macfixit.com/library/osxu.shtml) <<<

**** Version Tracker (http://www.versiontracker.com/vt_mac_osx.shtml) ******

TinkerTool (http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=11967&db=mac)

Pacifist (http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=12743&db=mac) another great essential, replaces TombViewer functionality to extract and install components from a package (like IE from the Essentials.pkg).

Snax (http://www.cocoatech.com/) Swiss Army knife Finder.

FireWalk X (http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=10832&db=macosx) firewall

Prefs Overload 4 (http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=8390&db=macos)

Anything from OmniGroup (http://www.omnigroup.com) (Disk Sweeper, OmniWeb)
OmniWeb Sneakypeek (http://www.omnigroup.com/ftp/pub/software/MacOSX/.sneakypeek/releases/) public beta

SuperGet Info (http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=11311&db=mac) essential to empty trash, permissions

Books, Online Reference, etc.

"Mac OS X Unleased" (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0672322293/ref=ase_osxfaq-20/103-2092160-6238261) http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/tinymacos.gif
The technical side of OS X @ 1500 pgs

MacOSXHints (http://www.macosxhints.com/)
A UNIX User's Mac OS X Notes (http://compsci.salve.edu/macosx.html)
Unix Guide (http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/reference/unix_guide/) (well, one of 'em http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


[This message has been edited by Gregory (edited 16 March 2002).]

03-14-2002, 08:15 PM

Thanks for all the info, Another project. I'll get back to you.


[This message has been edited by rwm2 (edited 14 March 2002).]

03-14-2002, 10:32 PM
Gregory and all

I just did some more reading in the OS X posts and there is a lot that I understand what people are doing or in concept anyway - but WOW http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/eek.gif

Where is a good start for basics to OS X? Web site perfered or a book works too?

You are saying to partition the first 7.9GB and install OS X? Is this the size of the first volume? Both of the 40 gig Seagate and/or the 60 gig IBM. I can do anything with the 60 gig drive now........ Nothing on it to lose.

I am just playing and learning now. I have lots of room and can format and format and install and install - need to figure out the CCC.


03-15-2002, 06:44 PM
Randy, et. al.,

There was a long write up today on the new iMac LCD and why one person ended up partitioning and his results. Informative article on MacInTouch: http://www.macintouch.com/flatpanelimac8.html

An OS X install will fragment the hell out of the partition with files get scattered all over. Of course CCC and ditto copy (both require BSD package be installed) will cure that quick enough. Multiple drives boost performance. I was finding that a system sans Classic or even OS 9 (put it on FireWire or external drive that you can connect when needed just for emergency) seemed to be happier. Classic + OS X (BSD etc) felt like sludge and oil + water.

then again there was something beta even with 10.1. ExpressStripe volumes had trouble with multiple partitions on a drive or RAID for me, I'd try to run Disk Utility Repair and it would have to unmount ALL volumes, not just the one I wanted. I thought it was an OS X issue and not just ATTO's issue. (I have this to say about ATTO: good hardware doesn't translate into the best software).

I know that everything I do will get redone/undone again next month. And especially once SoftRAID X (3.0?) is out - maybe 3.01 just to be safe? and maybe even again with 10.2 this summer.


[This message has been edited by Gregory (edited 15 March 2002).]

03-16-2002, 02:06 AM

To think, I talked you into this joyous undertaking that has truly been a bed a roses.

Holy smoley, what the heck is goin on there? I can't see where all the problems occurred. You ought to be making smoke in OSX by now.

A thought on your troubles. Have you tried a OpenFirmware reset? I have had to do it twice in the last two weeks but it saved the whole enchilada doing it. I like the 'set-defaults' and 'reset-all' combination, it has resolved a startup issue both times where the boot couldn't locate a system folder. I have no idea yet why. I only added a couple of Barracudas to the ATA133 RAID card, it was unpopulated with drives, and my boot stuck at the flashing question mark. OpenFirmware resolved that.

I have been reading several of the new books on OSX. I must say that I like "The Missing Manual" the best. The ones I have read a little bit so far are: Mac OSX The Complete Reference, MocOSX Bible,Mastering Mac OSX, and Mac OSX for reallllll Dummies.

I like the Dummies the least, it was written for the total computer begginner. The Complete Reference is pretty dry but well written. Bible and Mastering are useful but I have looked into them the least, no real judgement yet. I'll have to get into them a bit before making a call on them.

I guess I am going to have to side with Greg on how big to make the OSX system partition. I think we should call that the 'root' partition. I have not been able to figure anefficient way to completely move my Applications folder out of root and into the Users partition.

I am being advised to leave ALL the apps that come with OSX installers on the root partition at /Applications only installing added applications at the user level. I hate that so far. You must remember where each application is located and then you'll still find yourself hunting around for them.

The reason to leave them in the root partition is that each time you upgrade the OS you will also upgrade the apps that come with it. They will get placed in the root partition whether you want them there or not.

I am not happy about that right now. It's not elegant, nor is it satisfying.

Still, we are way ahead of the curve talking about stuff that most folks haven't even noticed as issues. It'll all come out in the wash, someday...

Keep at it Randy, glad to see you aren't using that new Quicksilver just to replace your $200 CD player on your stereo.

Later Buddy,

03-16-2002, 03:01 PM
Hey Rick and Gregory

Rick - things really were not that bad. I always want to take things too slow and do it right the first time. But with X why am I even trying... like Gregory said "I know that everything I do will get redone/undone again next month. " So I think I will just plan it that way. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The PROBLEM is ME - I think. Maybe I don't give myself enough credit - but when I read what you guys are doing and the knowledge and skills.... makes me http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/confused.gif . I been working around Macs 16,17,18... years but not near to the extent that a lot of members here have. I feel like a freshman student that just jumped into a junior level class without the "all the basics" I need. I have not even read an article on X till 2-3 weeks ago. Closest thing was looking at advertizing of the OS X logo. Serious, but I don't feel real lost. Spent a lot of time yesterday reading Apples fourms and another that Gregory talked about... There atre people with more and less knowledge than myself everywhere I go - so I guess I am going to make it. Maybe by the time I get through all Gregory's links I'll be getting nearer to a upper classman.

OH Rick, my CD player is worth more than $200 - What ever a 7500 XLR8 G3 400MHz, 288 megs RAM, 18 gig 10k Cheetah and Miles2, VooDoo 3/3000, USB card.. is worth? It also does a few more things than the standard CD. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Later friends

[This message has been edited by rwm2 (edited 16 March 2002).]

03-16-2002, 03:18 PM
It's funny - Looked at the 7500 yesterday and it was running my iTunes, updating NCAA scores, and a small download. The QS 733 was surfing, waiting for email and a rare Appleworks open. I really don't know if thats funny - but I best find more for the 733 to do - to justify my toys - but to who http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif The QS 733 is smooth really nice.


03-16-2002, 03:39 PM

Randy, you don't know how much you sound like Greg and me when we trade by email some new found way to make X work after screwing it up. Just like us except we did it by email and kept it secret from the world. http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/tongue.gif

We keep saying to each other, "wow, you really know what your talking about, what an experienced expert you are" and we keep answering each other," I don't know nothin"!

OSX is a whole new world and what we're talking about on this forum is so far beyond what most forums folks are talking about there's no comparison. All of us, you included, are operating out of the normal realm by moving directories, resetting locations and cloning system partitions. I am proud of all the information that you, Greg and others are kicking up while immersed in something as new and immense as switching to OSX is. Awesomw, everyone.

I learn everyday from the things your doing and the questions that you ask from experimenting. George Middleton has a Applications Folder post that showed me how easy it can be. Really insightful. I have been making a big deal out of several fairly easy things that George cut through the fog and made seem simple.

We'll all get there, it's great to have a place to throw around the ideas and methods we all are finding. Thanks.


03-17-2002, 10:42 AM
Thanks for the compliment, Rick. Hopefully that application thing is a decent solution and not some needless complication. I guess time will tell as we all get more familiar with X's file system, what goes where, what can be moved and aliased, etc. But we all know Greg's the man! If it weren't for him and the rest of you mods on the Macgurus forums, I'd still be watching from the other side of the fence. Really, Apple oughtta be paying you guys. I'm actually spending more than 50% of my time at this point in X. It's starting to feel more comfortable and less foreign..

Randy, what did you end up doing by way of partitioning on the QS? I lost sight of that thread, but after you raised the issue I decided to re-examine my approach and ended up with 11 partitions and it's all your fault! -g

[This message has been edited by gmidd (edited 17 March 2002).]

03-17-2002, 01:52 PM
I still have the 1.5 GB partition on each drive the 40 gig and 60 gig. I am using the 40 gig - getting ready to redo the 60 gig.

I spent all day Friday reading abourt partitions and setup for OSX and find everything from people leaving OSX, 9.x.x and everything they own on one drive and some have choped a 60 gig into 10 partitions. I don't know? Nobody knows?

I don't have any OSX apps yet... except a few game demos right now. I am thinking of going with a larger OSX partition like the 7.9 GB Gregory suggested - so I have room when the time comes - it makes as much sense as any. I think I will create a scratch area also. Hey I am just going to redo this next month anyway when I learn more.

I really am just experimenting and learning - till I know what I am doing better - I was going to watch from the sidelines for a while and somehow Rick put me in the game. I love the game. http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/confused.gif http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I find myself using OSX now too. Much more than I ever expected to be doing now. Need to learn more about the directory moving issues and... and... and.. OH NCAA Basketball today. Computer day off.

Later all

[This message has been edited by rwm2 (edited 17 March 2002).]