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TZ
02-20-2002, 05:33 PM
just to alert users to be careful, very careful, with Drive10 10.04 and only work on a backup of a backup. After 40 minutes the rebuilt directory data showed (in red luckily) that Volume content size would go from 12.23 Gb to ZERO (.0 bytes). Click on Cancel did nothing. Had to hit Enter and hope that the selected button was in fact activated.

It is FASTER, SAFER, CHEAPER, and much more reliable to use the same advice given in the past: initialize a drive of the same size ideally, then backup or, with OS X, clone (CarbonCopy cloner is great for this, and VERY fast). Took about 20 minutes on my B&W to clone 12 GB and the new system is identical, bootable, and has everything intact.

With Drive 10, Disk Warrior, Norton Systemworks 2.0, you could spend as much as an 18GB drive costs on "utilities" that you may not need and will take longer than a regular backup (OS X flies through disk I/O copies).

Gregory

ricks
02-20-2002, 08:37 PM
I really wonder which utilities are going to turn out useful and well done for OSX. All of us that like to 'play' with our computers seem to buy most of the decent utilities that came out for OS8 and9. SoftRAID, FWB, Nortons, Disk Warrior, TechToolPro,SpeedTools,Retrospect, the list goes on and on.

Sure looks like so far the list for X is short and rushed in quality. Don't know if I'd want to count on any of them yet.

So here I sit, waiting.

Rick

TZ
02-21-2002, 09:04 AM
Anyone noticed that Symantec Systemworks 2.0 now has Disk Warrior in the bundle? along with Retrospect, etc? Is this a good sign? (ie, Norton can't and isn't trying to do what someone else does better)?

I would buy the full Norton pkg(s) which of course sound good, even though I already have firewall software and don't know about how well Norton deals with WORM and trojan horses. Seems like they also borrowed from NetBarrier (Intego) for some features.

I just "cloned" an OS X drive and was surprised that there were errors in Disk Utility regarding freespace that didn't get cleared up by using "Get Info" to calculate and update folder sizes etc, or by logging out and back in. And just initialized also. (maybe playing around while waiting and doing Get Info on the drive while it was copying... but an X15 should be able to "do two things at once" and not lose its pointers etc. When I got done with repair I used Synk to compare folder contents and there weren't any missing files.

When I talked to Symantec, I wasn't impressed with their forcing users to have a beta of Norton Utilities tracking all file deletion and background processes. I was hoping OS X would bring journaling to the Mac.

Gregory

dragon_x
02-21-2002, 08:44 PM
Anyone noticed that Symantec Systemworks 2.0 now has Disk Warrior in the bundle? along with Retrospect, etc? Is this a good sign? (ie, Norton can't and isn't trying to do what someone else does better)?

I would say its a bad thing, but I have had one of those weeks. Done ONE THING RIGHT or everything WRONG! http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

DW does its thing right and often when nothing else does. Norton dropped the ball when Apple moved to HFS+ so I do not treat them with much respect. They still need to earn it. That said - Norton AV is pretty good on the Mac for the rare case where we get a virus. The live update is OK on the Mac side. They really should have options to allow access from a FIREWALL - they do this on the WIN/tel side. You can setup a small dedicated machine as a server and run LU off that though. On the win/tel side we moved from a NOT SO ROBUST anti-virus package to Norton. Norton is much better and you REALLY REALLY need this on the win/tel side.

I have heard some good things about Norton 6 on the Mac. We use it at work along with DW, TTPro, etc...

They are bundling EVERYTHING now a days. They have a firewall product and I think you can get EVERYHTHING for a decient price... I wonder if it works?

I bought a new system for X - I can say so far its been a good investment. It has allowed me to really get my feet wet. I can do just about everything I need to, but I think classic emulation has gone FUBAR for some reason, but its not critical. There are some things X is great at and others that it is PATHETIC in, but its new so there is time to make it better. I also have classic installed on another partition - just in case.

The more knowledge Symantec gets the better - I guess. I trust them a little more than MS, but not much. I think NTFS has the 'journaling' features and maybe BeOS did too? There is a petition somewhere to get NTFS supported on X. This is definately a good idea - a plan B or maybe even a plan A. MS is moving all their users to NT/2/Xperimental OS so NTFS is going to be a VERY COMMON file system. I think X already supports HFS, HFS+, UFS, FAT32 and others...

One thing that is REALLY annoying about X is the lack of disk imagine software built into the OS. I mean Disk Copy in classic Mac OS was DA BOMB. This disk copy is a piece of $h!.

So how is 'disk clone'?


------------------
The Cost Of Freedom:
Every bit of energy.
Every ounce of courage.
Every drop of blood.

The Cost of Tyranny...

dragon_x
02-21-2002, 09:02 PM
I found the link to the petition -
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/OSX_NTFS/

TZ
02-22-2002, 04:14 AM
CarbonCopy Cloner uses an old reliable stand-by "ditto" (been around since the 70's) and with CCC you can create a bootable OS X system on another drive, volume or read to burn - quickly. Maybe the most important, useful, utilities I've seen.

BrickHouse, FireWalk X, they put a GUI on the firewall capability so Intego and Symantec have simply added a couple other features.

I would have liked to see something on Alsoft's web site about this Norton/DW Lite package bundle to explain to users, as I know they are working on Disk Warrior X but mum so far. Microsoft 'announces' products it seems lately, before they have one to create buzz and interest. FUD.

I'd love to see Linux/BSD/OS X/Darwin take the market by storm. Along with IBM's "linux mainframes" and now with Sun trying to jump into the linux "me too" arena, and turn the market upside down for once. Sun/IBM servers, OS X desktop.

[This message has been edited by Gregory (edited 22 February 2002).]

ricks
02-22-2002, 12:04 PM
I'll tell ya what, I need one of those utilities right now. I did the 10.1.3 upgrade and now I totally crash out the OS whenever I run Appleworks, which is a lot right now. SIX times yesterday. Nothing works except the mouse.

Vaunted uncrashable, memory protected, crash only the applicat........................Osx a...........

Ri.............

TZ
02-22-2002, 01:08 PM
rick.... cloning has the effect of optimizing and insuring there is no trouble reading and following all the files and links correctly, then boot to the new system, etc pre-bind the new system, then use Disk Utility (DFA or whatever you trust). Sorry you got hit with the bug (there are no bug-free systems, only bugs not yet fixed or found).

Two backups. One to test and one in case things go sour you still have something to stand on. A good way to clone or backup is to output to two media (as long as you're reading...) one to tape or FireWire, another to SCSI.

There is no big shortcoming: you cannot RUN OS X from CD like you can OS 9, linux or other systems (not yet). I'd like to see someone solve that puzzle.

You only need a small 2-2.5GB volume for an OS X system, especially if you keep /Users and have a separate /Applications somewhere. If I can learn to do that I might try spreading my system across three drives at some point.

I assume you've tried 'fsck -y' on startup to try to resolve problems (first choice) and then DFA from the Install X CD (2nd choice). You can run fsck on the selected startup disk even when booting (holding down "C") to boot from a CD.

Gregory

[This message has been edited by Gregory (edited 22 February 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Gregory (edited 22 February 2002).]

ricks
02-22-2002, 07:56 PM
Thanks Gregory,

Yes, yes and YES. You hit these right on the nail! I did the fsck and that helped. I also will do the clone.

I am currently running with a minimum partition running the OS, also another drive with an entirely separate OS.

My users folder is at: /volumes/Local/Users. With Applications and application resources at the Local level, above Users.

I moved it during a new install using a combination of NetInfo and the Terminal to double check my work. Everything seemed to work perfectly until the Keychain started making up things to need login for and then Mail started doing strange things a week later.

I am still unsure where the bug is, I have no doubt I will find I did something corny that I'll have to stop doing.

Thanks very much for the email on fsck, your input is invaluable.

Rick

TZ
02-22-2002, 08:19 PM
hey, rick, you're welcome - testing the B&W with your RAID and all the help. There is enough circumstantial 'evidence' to suggest that Apple's installers and updates need to be taken with... a grain of salt or two and lots of TLC (dual backup in case one heads south) until you know it works and have read all the horror stories.

You may have done everything "correctly" and by the book - but is Apple reading? on the same page? I think though that they want to be a true blue *nix and are headed there. Slow out the gate (years getting OS X, years not getting pink/taligent or all the "classical" OS's (gershwin, choplan) and they finally got OS 9 pinned and clean and all native PPC code and VM to work sortof (intro'd in 7.0 ten years ago?).

If I can clone 12GB in 20 minutes, you can maybe cut that to ____ ? 5 minutes?

Gregory