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PENDRAGON18
01-26-2002, 02:54 AM
OK, maybe its not strictly a crash - but there it is.
Running the mac system for several days - IE has been up for at least a day (overnight). Get back from work and wake the system up - do some surfing. The second page I goto - IE 5.1 (it really sucks) crashes. OK - no big deal right? Wrong.
Mac OS even starts to tell me the rest of the system is OK, but the window does not fully come up. http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/mad.gif
I go to the 'finder' and try to go to ther Apple menu - ALL the menu's are HOZED. http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/mad.gif
I can not get to force quit at all http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/crossbones.gif

I give it 5 minutes to recover - its still freak'n out.
I had to force a reboot.

So why is there no KEYBAORD command to get to force quit????? http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/mad.gif

Any ideas?

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Formerly dragon_x
until the SCSI forum became pooched http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

tm311
01-26-2002, 08:12 AM
There is a keyboard command to bring up the force guit dialog box.....at least on my non-usb keyboard...if i do a force quit i get the "force quit' box to come up and then i can get out of IE. You can try omniweb as a browser.it looks very cool and will one day be a kick-ass browser but it crashes on me at least once a day but does not take down my system with it. Another thing i have been told about osX (and again maybe this is only applies to unsupported machines) you should set your energy control panel to NOT let the HD sleep due to possible data corruption.

TZ
01-26-2002, 09:32 AM
With IE I've never had a crash since 10.1 but then my system is constantly being reinstalled from scratch. OmniWeb did crash regularly but the latest sneakypeeks have been good - but pulled while they look for a server to host their ftp server.

In IE I do have to occassionally click on the Finder desktop (even in OS 9 it can look like it hasn't stopped sometimes) to regain control. If you have Terminal open running Top or Process Viewer it helps just to go to another application.

But if you have to force quit (command + option + ~) then I would definitely run the "fsck -y" on restart. Or boot from the CD (too bad my machine can't boot from FireWire CD drive).

OmniWeb seemed to write to the directory and required Disk Warrior to repair. Which is why I keep OS X on two drives. It is now not possible to run OS X disk utilities w/o unmounting a drive, not just the one volume due to OS X's driver.

Because BSD and OS X keep writes deferred in memory, and keep multiple copies of the disk's directory btree headers and tables, to improve performance, a crash etc can actually be much more severe or more likely to lose data than Mac OS 9 would.

Try to clean out recent changes and you may want to run the stand-alone combined update 10.1.2 which will do some repairing. Links, preferences, services, network.

Mozilla is coming along and it only damages or loses its own preference file. And of course there is a new iCab posted yesterday.

Gregory

PENDRAGON18
01-26-2002, 06:13 PM
IE seems to crash on me about once a day. I have IE 5.1 (it seems this is much worse that IE 5 for X) and 10.1.2

I know about Unix crashing and burning. First there is the crash and then there is the clean reinstall http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/eek.gif

Crashes are normally very rare, but X is not quite mature in some areas - so I guess its going to be more common and in addition I would be running the system much more conservatively if it were a mission critical box. I would still stay this is at least 2x more stable that classic Mac OS. Still crashes are agrivating http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/mad.gif

I think I have had about 3 hard crashes with this install of X and so far (knock on wood) my system has come through every time. However it seems that I can not longer run PS6 in classic mode. For some reason the menus are hozed. Kinda strange since that is what happened to the menus in 10.1.2 - during the crash.

The annoying thing is I think I could have prevented the 'hard crash' of the system IF I could have gotten to the old FORCE QUIT window. I have heard that force quitting the FINDER is a good thing to do every few days or weeks. It kind of reminds me of when you do no use the FINDER in classic (for a server or Router for instance) that the Mac OS can run for months and months on end - without issue.

IE 5.1 is fairly fast. Netscape 6 (the last one I tried) is a slow turd. Its really crazy to have a browser run THAT slow on an 867MhzG4. I have heard the newer version (6.1.2?) is much better. Its really crazy to have a browser run THAT slow on an 867MhzG4. It doesnt seem any slower on my G4/433 (at work) and this makes me wonder if the program is not paying attention to the speed of the CPU http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The thing I did not like about OmniWeb was it rendered 'this is an unlicensed version' (something like this) in the background of every web page. The thing I do not like about iCab is just when I get used to using it - the trial period expires. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

It does not seem like one browser can do it anymore either. Some pages suck on IE and others can crash IE. Some pages work great on iCab, but others are not so good. I think the tech industry REALLY needs to develop some better standards and MS needs to stay the hell away - since they like to take universal standards and then make them MS proprietary money laundering mafia crap.

I will try that keyboard shortcut to the FORCE QUIT option. I have an Apple PRO USB keyboard - I hope it works.

Otherwise Mac OS 10.1.2 http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/kickass.gif Apple really has something here... I think they are about 85% of what they need.

TZ
01-26-2002, 08:15 PM
Sorry to hear you've had so much trouble. Try the latest OmniWeb 4.1sp32 http://www.omnigroup.com/ftp/pub/outgoing/sneakypeek/ and see how that goes. I bought it when it came out and like it a lot. I also just paid for iCab Pro, too! http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I'm sure you have more than 512MB (I'd use 500+ just surfing). I also use each browser for different features, like when I need to disable java or scripting or something. Or want to save a web page's text.

Do you have a 2nd drive to run OS X from for emergency repairs?

I'd lose my RAID setup frequently waking from sleep. I don't trust RAID built by either ExpressStripe or Apple.

Long ago I found that using Login to auto-launch didn't work. Then heard that mixing Carbon and Cocoa creates trouble. Then Apple says that launching applications this way is bad mojo. Add to that don't launch Classic on startup. And errors that are being attributed to running Classic.

I wonder if there is hardware or RAM that is at the heart of the problems. I know for me I ended up upgrading and replacing all my RAM. Crashes went away.

Gregory

dragon_x
01-28-2002, 10:34 PM
But if you have to force quit (command + option + ~)
This is not the force quit command. It is the window rotater command in IE5 on X. I 9 it seems to be (command + ~)

Apple REALLY NEEDS TO:
put keyboard command for force quit. I suspect that USB is not up to the task, which could explain why the PC world has stayed far away from USB. Apple tried to tweak the USB, but nobody like that http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
improve dual/multimonitor support
improve iDVD's ability to import QT movies
make file sharing as easy as classic


I have 768MB on my QSG4.
I have a single 60GB drive setup with 3 partitions: 5GB X, 5GB 9, 45GB data
This will change as I will add another 60GB CudaIV from Gurus.
I have an 80GB FW external.
I have the 2930UC SCSI - with nothing attached - I have no money for SCSI http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
I have no money for RAID and it is just as well since SoftRAID is not out for X yet.

As near as I can tell the hardware is 'perfect', or as close humans can get to perfection. My PISMO G3/400 actually has a 'defective' CPU, but works pretty good under X. I have been fairly gentile with it though. Strangely there is no way to control where X boots into 9 from. I know that a crash in classic WILL affect classic when you boot into it natively. So I installed 9.1 on the 'classic' parition and 9.2.1 on the 'X' partition. For some reason X likes the 9.1 version - I guess if it really goes FUBAR it will only hoze one parititon and classic is fairly resistant to this - still with 3GB partitions and 3 OS's its kinda dinky.

I would not be suprised if there were issue with the video drivers. This has been a baine of Apple, ATI and now it seems nVidia. I know there were serious issues with the YosemiteG3s and the ATI RAGE128s.

IE 5.1 sucks. It can crash at will and it also FUBARS regularily where I will have to close a window or quit out of the app all together. I usually like to spread about 5+ windows around my desktop and IE cramps my style. Yet there is no browser that seems to do it all. I might just get iCab Pro or OmniWeb. At least they try. I think IE 5.0 works much better, but then that is a typical upgrade for MS.

I just spend 2 hours of OT in a futile attempt to get a S-can W2K/NT Thinkpad (T22) to run properly. My mind is fried. Windows suX, X RULES! http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


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I'm back!

ricks
01-29-2002, 12:01 AM
Hey dragon_x,
Great to see your name back on the boards! You do look kinda younger with the junior moniker.

I don't want to rub it in, but I never have a crash with IE in X. This is on the QS867 which has been the most stable computer I have ever had. I have crashed all sorts of classic stuff and only taken down X once.

We're going to be learning about X for a long while yet, I look forward to most of it. Sometimes the simplist things seem obscure though, like setting up the networking.

Even with your issues at least you still sound positive with X.

Rick

wingman
01-30-2002, 02:52 AM
dragon_x,

With an unstable IE, it sometimes helps if you trash:

~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.internetconfig.plist

A little file that holds your Internet (sys pref) settings, and where IE decides is a good place to store its setting and cookies. It corrupts pretty easily, as does its OS 9 analogue, Internet preferences.

May not help, Java intensive sites have been known to bring IE (X) to its knees.

chromatica
01-31-2002, 07:12 PM
maybe i'm totally confused here - isn't the keyboard command for force quit under X

cmd-opt-esc ?

when i do that i get "force quit applications" box that pops up and lets me kill whatever i want... it only didn't come up the one time that X completely went down with a kernel panic

-jacob.

dragon_x
01-31-2002, 08:39 PM
chroma,

You are correct. Same as classic!
http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/confused.gif

So why are half the commands different and the other half the same - and then more of them are hidden? - NOT GOOD.

Funny how Apple forgot to put that shortcut on the menu. I REALLY wish the Apple menu was a versatile in X as it is in 9. At least I have not TRIED to do anything to the Apple menu in X - yet.

The other thing that REALY annoys me is I can not get a free upgrade to 10.1 with the FULL INSTALL. So hardware that is not well supported on 10.0 kinda sucks when running an install.

Also disk imagine is whack. I have not had much time to look at it but it SHOULD be the same as classic. OK I know this is unix and all and the .img is now .dmg and I am sure there are other differences under the hood but it seems the abiltiy to quickly and easily image
disks
folders
partitions
drives
is GONE http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif


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I'm back!

dragon_x
02-03-2002, 12:50 AM
While I am on this rant -

What the hell is up with USB in X?
I mean I can switch back & forth with my KVM USB 4 port switch and classic is FINE. For some reason X seems to think my mouse speed goes back to medium. Why does it fail to remember or insist on forgetting?

X seems to forget the mouse speed anytime a USB mouse is disconnected. That is messed up http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/crossbones.gif