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View Full Version : Sum the needed parts for OSx in 7600 box



levelbest
12-06-2001, 04:56 PM
Hello,

I have found good info on Macsales.com web sight. And here and there I have learned some things on these forum pages. What I want to do is to list, and then to clarify my next investment in speed toys, keeping in mind that I do want to install and learn OSx in my near future.

I am now running system 8.6 on a 7300 with an XLR8 G3/400 and 512 Mgs of memory. The biggest problem is going to be choosing my next hard drive. I am taxed to frustration right now with a 2 GIG and a 4GIG drive. Basically running at stock speeds.

I have heard on these forum pages that striped drives are much faster than normal. However, OSx from what I read, does NOT allow striped drives. So, if that is true (is it absolutely?) then, I will avoid the investment in striping my drives.

I have seen the argument go both ways with the ultra wide SCCI and ATA (now 100). I have also heard that FireWire drives are getting cheap enough that FireWire could be the way to go for my main internal drive. (Is this true?)

What is the requirement for an ATA drive for the Mac. Specifically for a Mac using OSx? I remember something about needing to be able to be used as a start up disk. Some can and some can not. Can someone refresh my memory as to what that term is and what I should avoid "IF" I go the ATA route? And does this apply also to OSx use?

I have been looking for a Voodoo 4 as I have heard that they "may" be compatible on OSx after all. Is that a rumor only. or has anyone you know of actually gotten it to work (stably)?

I will have to invest in a CD burner of some type before purchasing OSx as I also read that it absolutely will not, ever, work with floppy drives (Is that true?)

Right now I am having a really frustrating time trying to see what applications are conflicting with each other. My 4D will not start up anymore on my main drive. Neither will Quicken. Palm desktop is a new arrival that could have done something to cause it, so was the installation of OCR scanner software. But removing extensions, etc, has not corrected my problems. Oye, will I be glad when every thing works well again. I am hoping that moving to the latest system and doing a clean install from a larger disk will help, a LOT. Lets hop[e so.

Thanks. Any suggestions on something I might have left out would be great.

lb

TZ
12-07-2001, 09:06 AM
Conflict Catcher can avoid installers dumping stuff that doesn't belong.

ATA/100 is bootable and some have hard raid that can be used I think under X.1 even. $200 for PCI IDE and 40GB drive. Or just put a $200 SCSI drive, add Miles2.

To be safe I'd go with ATI Radeon (either VE or full), or UltimateRez ($39).

If things aren't working right, backup, initialize, and be careful doing a clean install.

You can't run 9.2.2 on that box and while you could try the Unsupported Utility route for OS X, it is less supported now than 10.0 was. You could install Linux quite easily.

Do you want to invest $400 when new Macs are coming out, and an iMac might do all you want and keep the 7300/7600 for 8.6 and current projects. SCSI CD burners also require another "unsupported" utilty to get working, FireWire still needs more work and is not bootable on vintage (or even B&W) Macs. FireWire is external, for internal, ATA/100/133 is probably the easiest way to go, and you might be able to put an ATAPI CDRW off that card.

There was a message about SoftRAID and OS X on www.xlr8yourmac.com (http://www.xlr8yourmac.com) last week (?) and how Apple's is very rudimentary.

levelbest
12-07-2001, 10:25 AM
I have never found Conflict Catcher to be of much use. I must be the only guy around who doesn't get it. I hear many love it. But, All it does is ask me what I think might be causing the problem, restarts a couple of times and asks me if the problem was solved? For the life of me I don't see the use of it. Hasn't solved any problems for me.

Did you say that system 9.2.2 won't run on my box at all? That isn't the latest 9 version is it? Doesn't that now go to 9.4? If my box won't go further with the new 9 then, better I prepare for it's funeral now.

Apple always dramatically changes the architecture every 4 or 5 years. There is always enough compatibility for the models just finished, and the illusion is that they are still the same because, after all, you can still run 80's software on a new mac (try that with Microsoft) But in truth, even my new ZIF card XLR8 processor will no longer take a chip from a new mac as they are now in a different chip configuration.

I will watch with interest over the next couple of months to see where the G5 goes and what Apple will do with the next system bus and accouterments. As we are late into a development cycle with the G4, I think the current choices will expand before long.

And in the mean time, I am wondering just what I have to do to get system x running on my 7300 mac. I have heard that it actually runs pretty fast on older machines. It may not be a perfect solution, and I will still need to invest in another hard drive. I will also need to get a cd burner or a zip for back ups. I think that with burnable CD's getting cheap, I will go that route. But I have to go there before thinking more seriously about system x. The mac.sales site says that floppy drives just will not work under system x. And I still have a lot of legacy software on my floppies.

Of course, the day I finally have to let go of Fair Witness and More will be a sad day indeed, Please let there be a good thought organizer and workshop planner available for system X.

lb

tm311
12-07-2001, 07:27 PM
i'm with you on conflict catcher....for 80 bucks i want it to look at everything on my computer and suggest to me the optimal set-up. I don't get it either. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[This message has been edited by tm311 (edited 07 December 2001).]

lasvegas
12-11-2001, 05:57 AM
Conflict Catcher does a great job of simplifying the process of narrowing down conflicting Extensions/Control Panels. It's also go a great feature of allowing you to merge an older System Folder with a clean install, moving everything you want and leaving all the old crap that won't work in the new System Software anyway. CC also better organizes the icons displayed during boot and offers the option of displaying extension names. Yes. It would be nice to have a utility to just appear and announce, "This is your problem... I fixed it." Get real though. That utility doesn't exist, and CC isn't it either.

The newest "Supported" Mac OS your 7600 will run is Mac OS 9.1. There are patches and utilities to allow installing newer versions such as 9.2.1 or OS X, but unless you have a need or strong desire to run the newest and greatest, you should be quite satisfied with 9.1.

TZ
12-11-2001, 06:41 AM
Conflict Catcher: It insures, if you create a link group, that all the members of that group are enabled or disabled together. Let's you manage extensions that EM will not. Can spot a system file that is in need of minor repairs (you'll need REsEdit however to verify and correct it) which otherwise will lead to freezes etc and bring your system down and make it worse.

I've got the latest drivers and extensions from 9.2.2 on my 7300 which runs 9.1. ATI, OpenGL, OpenTransport (boosted net thruput). I just use TombViewer to extract.

No magic bullets. I wouldn't be without BOTH Disk Warrior and Norton. They do a superb job. Would you want a dentist to only use one tool for all problems? There is no school or textbook (unless Sad Macs qualifies, but they are out of date by the time they are written).

The lack of Open Firmware on 7xxx boxes makes it hard(er) and difficult. Not easy to work around but Sonnet's tool seems more polished at helping upgrade/install 10.0/10.1 than Ryan's UU (which was done using Darwin and a 7300). but the 7300 is 4-6 yrs old.

There was suppose to be a 9.5 Mac OS but where do these rumors of a current 9.4 come from? Not reliable sources (MacIntouch etc). Can you run Windows ME on a 5 yr old Intel box? Don't blame Apple. You can run SuSe Linux or BSD and they run very well. There is more native powerpc code in 9.1+, and some AltiVec code handling parts of the system. But 9.2.1 broke or created some problems as well.

Grab a Miles2 or even a BlueNote and one of the 18GB drives for another $200, or IDE card/drive (save $100 but doesn't seem to run as well as scsi).

Most people don't have the time to learn all the ins and outs. Or need a G4/G5 - OS X though does. but not for email, surfing, basic graphics. And the G5 will be a true workstation class machine that will not exclude Apple having low-end G4's on the desktop.

lasvegas
12-11-2001, 08:13 PM
7200-7600 machines all have OpenFirmware 1.0.5 built-in. The only problem is version 1.0.5 defaults to using the modem port for I/O. Connect a terminal to the modem port at 38000/n/1 and boot the machine holding Command-Option-O-F. Alternatively, you can easily use Ryan Rempel's UUX to setup OF to use your current video and keyboard and reboot right into it.

Sonnet's solution is nowhere near as elegant as Ryan's UUX. It does have a rewrite of Apple's Startup Disk, but UUX is so much faster and more powerful than Startup Disk. As far as patches and additions to OSX drivers, Ryan's done a much better job than Sonnet. Okay¨÷ Sonnet has a G3 driver built-in for OS X. I much prefer XLR8's OS X driver though.