View Full Version : Rebuilding desktop question....

01-22-2001, 04:33 PM
Hi guys, I do regular maintenance on my drives with DiskWarrior.

I'm wondering, in Hardware Heaven, do you guys do desktop rebuilds as maintenence, and how is that different than the directory mop-up that Diskwarrior does?

I rarely crash these days, and haven't done a DT rebuild in more than a month.....buy I use DW about every other day.



01-22-2001, 05:50 PM
It's a different process altogether. I use the TechTool 1.2.1 freeware. I notice NUM 6 has a Rebuild Desktop again after dropping it it for a good while. I only do it a couple of times a year unless I see telltale signs such as generic icons.

01-22-2001, 07:15 PM
Thanks Louie


01-22-2001, 07:16 PM
I do it periodically using FileBuddy. Maybe once a month, I guess. Or when I feel it is needed.

03-04-2001, 12:04 AM
I have a friend who works as an onsite mac tech in silicon valley and he has a very strong opinion about disc warrior. He has made me promise that if I run it and it finds no errors that I will cancel and not do the rebuild. We have a bit of a language barrier in that he is technical and I'm not but the way he tells it is that DW is almost "too strong" for frequent use and if done so may cause you as many problems as it fixes. He also tells me that defragmenting a disc isn't nesscesary until you hit about 4 or 5% fragmentation. I used to rebuild once a week until the same guy told me not to bother unless like Louie says, you see generic icons. I guess there really is such a thing as too much of a good thing.

03-04-2001, 11:17 AM

That is an interesting comment about Disk Warrior. I wonder what problems he finds that DW creates? And what is too frequent? And what other utilities does he use besides DW, since it is in no way the only utility that should be used? IME, since adding DW to my mix (version 1.0 or 1.1, I forget), my backups have never been used, even once. I'll keep backing up, but since DW, the backups keep gathering dust and I keep wondering why I'm waiting to eject/load the next removable. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll keep backing up.

One other observation about utilities. Right after a full install of an OS from CD onto an empty partition or drive, and this is up thru the OS9.0.4 CD, has anyone looked at where everything is installed by checking with Speed Disk to see where all the files are located on this clean install? All over the place. The files themselves are not fragmented, but there are a lot of blank areas between. k

03-04-2001, 01:04 PM
Kaye, I have noticed that through OS 9.1(the messy new OS install). I always make it look pretty in the end with Speed Disk, after getting all the non-OS stuff onto the drive and I use a sequence similar to yours; DW-DFA-NUM (DD + SD)-DW. I always have a backup of some kind available or else am prepared to pay the price for not having it

03-05-2001, 02:30 PM
I dunno, I'll ask him for an explanation but I do recall how he said he uses it. He'll let it do what it does up until it asks if you want to replace the directory and if there were no errors found he cancels without replacing it. He uses the Apple disc repair first, Norton, DW, and then there is a mixed bag of others after that depending on what has been turned up by that point. I have been reading diametrically opposed opinions as to the need for defragmentation since there have been forums and don't see that changing any time soon. I know that a hideously fragmented drive, say, one that has been in use for a few years without the benefit of defragging will really benefit from having things sorted and put away. I've been in on this very thing and the drives were almost non-functional at that point but there were a host of other problems as well. Soooo, I think it is still mostly a matter of one's own peace of mind if the % is under 5 or 6%.

03-09-2001, 02:38 AM
RT Firefly,

Interesting wrinkle. Literally 20 minutes before your post about DiskWarrior, I had, for the first time, accidentally hit "rebuild" when the diagnostics in DW had found 0 problems.

My system has been flaky ever since, and I have no good copy of Norton DD. Guess I'll have to go out and buy a copy.

That said, I will be careful from now on out with DW. DW is an awesome utility, and has kept me running without problems for months.

Could be coincidence. Who knows. Would love to hear what your friend has to say about it. Invite him over here to throw in his 2 cents.


03-09-2001, 02:39 PM
i also would love to hear why this fellow (did we ever ascertain the sex?) has such a strong view of DW. over the years i have come to the conclusion that many software and even disk performance issues i've had were related to poor system hygiene. this is where preventative maintainance comes in. performing regular, (not daily), defrags, system checks, and directory corrections go a long way to preventing more serious problems down the road. many of the problems posted on these forums are related to poor maintenance.

I'm not sure i agree with the tech's contention that if DW finds no errors you should just leave the directory as is. when you graph your drive and it tells you that 300 out of 15,000 files are out of order, they should be fixed. i can't see that leaving them 'as is' is preferable to correcting them. what harm can DW do? all it does is rewrite the directory to correctly match the existing files on your drive. that's why after optimizing or defragging your drive(where you literally move files physically around) you will have to rerun DW and fix some new files that are out of order. this speeds file retrieval and avoids errors.

anybody else have any ideas?


03-09-2001, 04:50 PM
I'm with you Michael. And I think C8 has bumped into the fact that DW is not the be all, end all, just part of the tool kit. k

03-09-2001, 08:05 PM
I agree with the both of ya's. The ONLY maintenance I've been doing for months has been DW every few days, and I've been running pretty damn solid.

I know for a fact that that limited maintenance is actually inadequate. Mostly (as my order history at MG's shows), because I'm a cheap bastard, or at least VERY discriminating about where I spend my bucks. But, when things become utterly clear, I spend the bucks. I just wish MG's sold more of the utilities that we all like around here.

That said, the fact they don't must mean it makes no business sense to do so. That, I utterly respect.

So guys, are the routines in Disk First Aid decent? What's your opinions on it?


03-09-2001, 09:24 PM
DFA gets a little more sophisicated each time it is rewritten, but there are many things it can't fix. It's really more of an "Alarm".

03-10-2001, 01:39 AM
Louie, tell me what you think.........

If DFA finds things wrong, does it give you the option to fix or not? And if it does find problems, do you tell it to fix them?

I know I've read it here some time ago, but I guess I'm curious what you guy s use and do for problem resolution, and "maintenance sweeps"?

I seem to remember......DFA then NDD, then DW.

What do you think?

03-10-2001, 02:54 AM
software purchased thru distribution (like Ingram) can't be sold at retail at prices that are competitive with the superstores. If we were direct, or had an electronic agreement (as we do w SoftRAID and HDST), it would be another matter. For shrinkwrapped copies of applications, it's virtually impossible to compete with the outpost.com's of the world. Which is fine. Render unto Caeser, right?


03-10-2001, 03:35 AM
Right on brother man!!!!

How's that doggie of yours doing?


[This message has been edited by crazyeights (edited 10 March 2001).]

03-10-2001, 05:41 PM
If you have to render the three-finger salute, DFA runs on restart (unless you have it turned off). Under those circumstances, if it finds something it can fix, it will do so automatically. If it finds something that it can't fix, it will warn you.

If you run it manually and it finds something wrong it will tell you and also tell you if it can fix it or not. I seldom use it manually except recently when it was the only fix for this HFS+ wrapper problem. (Now DW 2.1 and NUM 6 can fix the wrapper thing). If I do run it and it says that it can fix something, I let it. I believe the the DFA Read Me advises that you run it from a disk other that the startup disk.

03-10-2001, 06:37 PM
Thanks Louie, yeah, I figured best run from another disk.

Hey, is there a charge for DW 2.1, download if you own 2.0?


03-11-2001, 01:01 AM
There is a charge. You get a discount and your old password for being a prior owner. Somewhere around $25, I think.

Are you florfed again?

[This message has been edited by Louie (edited 11 March 2001).]

03-11-2001, 03:34 AM
Okay, thanks Louie. No, I'm runnin okay, but I need to throw more money at this PTP and get some software and another big seagate.

I also need to spend about 4 solid hours doing maintenance on my machines, and prepping spare 1,2 and 4 gig drives, etc, etc.....

Louie man, it seems like there is always so much to do, and so little time to do it. I need an attractive, sweet, computer science graduated, slender yet voluptuous asian woman, who can hack, cook and clean and sew...and......you get the idea...... My friend Mike says I'm nuts, that asian women rule the roost with an iron fist.

Hey, so what if thats not PC (as in politically correct). I'm a simple guy with simple needs. So many of the gals these days want the fairy tale, but don't know what the hell to do with it when they get it. I guess it does no good to reminice about "the way america used to be".

Listen to me whine..........I've never had it so good, so I've got damn little to complain about.

So Louie, whats your take on NDD? Do you run it before you run DW?

And one last question..........WHERE did that word florfed come from? That is such a bitchin word!!!

I hope the Tennesee spring finds you and your loved ones doing reasonably well.


03-11-2001, 02:02 PM
Unless I have an obvious directory problem, and I don't have many, I run NDD first. Then I use Speed Disk to Defrag. If Speed Disk shows files all over Hell's half acre, I optimize. I know, Magician doesn't like that, but if the head has to run all over 36 MB's looking for a file, it's got to slow things down. Last I run DiskWarrior to do a final optimization of the directories.

If it has only been a short while since I did the above, and, say Navigator starts those damned quits for no reason, I run just DW and that usually straightens things out.

NUM has had its bad press that seems to stick with it. The early versions of 4.xx were a series of disasters and the early versions of 5.xx were a pain in their inability to boot all machines. The later problem was part Symantec and part Apple for changing boot ROM's every 15 minutes. Symantec tried to lay all the blame on Apple. Symantec usually puts out reasonably quick fixes when they screw up. I had such a public pissing contest with the NUM Project Manager on the MacFixIt forums last year that he sends me new updates to test.

03-11-2001, 06:38 PM
Louie, thanks for that. Good info!!

I hope you have a mellow rest of Sunday!!!

Till later,


03-11-2001, 09:15 PM
Thanks: Same to you.

When you're retired, like me, almost all days are like Sunday.

03-12-2001, 12:05 AM
Thanks Louie. Someday, I hope to retire. I'm a bit of a late bloomer, but, all things considered, I'm very fortunate and blessed to be alive. You're a retired career soldier aren't you? I expect you know what I mean.

Well, work beckons..........

Best to you L,


03-12-2001, 03:19 AM
ugh...working on Sunday? I at least waited until it was Monday to start, Dave!


Had to watch the Sopranos, too.


doggie is fine. She's nagging me to go to bed now. Almost done.


03-12-2001, 04:21 AM
Yup.........one of the downsides of having one segment of my work at the home front. Gotta pack all those books for delivery to the freight company.

If only I could train my dog to use dew claws like thumbs.......

Glad to hear your dear pup is doing okay. I must confess to lavishing quite a bit more affection on my doggie after your doggie went to the vet. His damn hip displacia is flaring up a bit too, so he's gimping around a bit, poor guy.

Glad to hear also that you have more sanity with your weekend work habits than I do. Part of my motivation is to pay for my trip to Australia in April.

I think I'll stay away from the nude beaches though............


[This message has been edited by crazyeights (edited 12 March 2001).]

03-12-2001, 10:37 PM
Hey c8,

Maybe you won't be on the beach, but I bet you'll be in the bushes with a sniper scope mounted on a Foster's can http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

03-12-2001, 11:19 PM
Aussie girls are, in general, beautiful. It was quite dangerous to go there on
R&R from VietNam.

There is also a fond memory of the two female Aussie ambulance drivers and the R&R from Korea to Japan.......................yes!

03-13-2001, 12:11 AM
Ouch!!!! Yep, I like to say I have a weakness for pretty asian women. Of course my friends usually chuckle, and remind me I have a weakness for pretty women, period. Hey, what can I say? I'm a plain old red blooded American man.

Throw in a cool accent, and I find it hard....................to resist. (wink wink, nod nod, know what I mean?)

Dual ambulance drivers, with an aussie accent. That is a fond memory Louie. (image: once friggin again, Dave biting his knuckle)

It is pretty likely to be warm there, and were I'm goin there will be a LOT of woman from all over the world. Although, Winona Ryder, in tube top and shorts, looking for me specifically, probably won't be there. Damn.

I'd let her sleep in my tent even WITH that big vein in her head that bugs Magician. She can even eat toast in bed if she wants.

Guys, there is an upside to fantasies like that (besides them being enjoyable).............it makes the odds of hitting a huge PowerBall lotto seem pretty good!!!!

Yeah MM, used to love the Fosters "oil can". 2 back to back was lunch for quite a long time. Of course, I was doing software tech support at the time. One of the down sides of the Macintosh (which I too am guilty of), since it was a relational database development package with a gui interface, something like half the customer base didn't think they had to read the documentation. Those oil cans should have been paid for by the management!!! I confess, I liked german or belgian brews better. Had to give the stuff up.......found out I was allergic to it. Go figure.

It'll be lots of sun, super lush boonies, weird critters, and sleeping in a tent, with the southern hemisphere sky overhead.

I'm gonna skip the croc wrestling this trip.



[This message has been edited by crazyeights (edited 12 March 2001).]

03-13-2001, 01:37 AM
Hey man! Aussies aren't Asian; they're cousins to the Brits but don't insist on doing it standing up.

03-13-2001, 04:10 AM
Oh yeah Louie, I know they aren't asians. But they do have that accent. I'm just saying I have a serious ass affinity for pretty asian girls, for reasons I'd best not go into here....... http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Not the least of which is their good manners and polite demeanor.....and extraordinary............



03-14-2001, 04:38 AM
talking about extraordinary racks, Winona Ryder is STACKED, Dave. For such a skinny little wild thing, with such deep brown eyes, she has got some SERIOUS hooters on her. I hope they are real. It would depress me terribly to learn that she had succumbed to the temptation for augmentation.

she also has some phenomemal legs on her. Don't think she would like .au, though. She's too pale to go outside like that. I think she smokes, too. Which is fine, if you're looking to get laid in Greenwich Village or someplace like that. For Down Under, you need a brutal chick like...Dina Meyers. A chick that can kick your ass.

I think Winona would be gasping after ten minutes under a ruck on the trail, and I'm SURE she would dislike bathing in a stream or surf. Dina Meyers, though....shit. I'm surprised she hasn't joined the Army already. I'll bet she can shoot, too.


03-15-2001, 02:42 PM
i thought this forum was called system software tips not ....

03-18-2001, 04:37 AM
sorry to ask about macs on your asian women appreciation page, but the question falls under this heading. Can you rebuild the desktop on a beige g3? it seems like someone somewhere sometime on this forum said that function ended with the 9600. this corroberates nicely with my experience, as i have no recollection of successfully rebuilding my dest top. when i hold down command option on the 7500 during start up, it politely asks if i would like to rebuild the desktop file, but the g3 boots like i wasnt touching it. however, i have had other beige g3 users insist that they rebuild their desktop regularly. is it rebuilding without asking me? is there some other key-command you use instead? whenever i get the generic icon thing, i trash the Finder, Mac OS, and System preferences, and zap the pram. that always solves the problem. so whats going on here i dont know about?

03-18-2001, 05:11 AM
Actually, it was a WOMAN appreciation page, and, admittedly, none of us would be here without them. And without some...er......fraternization, my system software would be SERIOUSLY compromised. No disrespect intended though. Just admiration............... http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I have always presumed desktop rebuild was still a function in New World macs, but hell, I ain't got one!!! Batmantis, you can settle this question for your self. In the Finder "Help" menu, select the Help Center and type in "rebuild desktop" or the reverse, and see what it tells ya. Keep in mind, you should keep those keys pegged until the "Do you want........" dialog box comes up. I think if you let up before that message it will just continue the boot sequence.


03-18-2001, 07:13 AM
yeah, it shows up in help, but i tried it before, but i mighta let go during the middle of the startup items launching, i figured it would go before that so im gonna try again in a little while. will let you know what i get.

03-18-2001, 08:58 AM
the keyboard was the culprit. i have a thirdparty ergonomic keyboard. when i replaced it with an apple keyboard and tried again the rebuild desktop window came up. interesting, sort of. thats the only start up keys that dont work. cd start up, and pram reset both work.

03-18-2001, 06:22 PM
Thoughts on Winona Ryder from 20 months ago:

She drives a BMW 3 series convertible (poorly), she smokes incessantly, and they look real.

I had the dubious pleasure of being rear ended by her in San Francisco (she harks from Petaluma, but the car was registered to an address in Ross), when she came barrelling up a hill, and did not realize I was stopped at the crest (those pesky stop signs).

She was most decidedly normal (after getting past the stress of the accident), gave me check to avaoid insurance companies, bummed one of my cigarettes, and proceeded with her day. The whole experience would have been humdrum normal if it hadn't been surreal.

Anyway, that the story of me getting a 'tap on the ass' from Winona Ryder!

03-18-2001, 06:58 PM
Dude, you didn't give her the "Well, you kicked my ass, would you let me take you to dinner now?"

Do you have accident photos? http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

03-18-2001, 10:38 PM
I had plans with my girlfriend (who of couse has since kicked me out, and kept my dog), and no camera, and since we hushed the insurance, I don't even have a Police Report with an autograph.

She was so normal in the situation, that I was not really star struck.

03-18-2001, 11:59 PM
you had her autograph on the check. hmmmm......cash it.....or frame it and put it on my desk (should have asked here to write "personal favors" on the memo line)

03-19-2001, 07:20 AM
Cash the check...keep the momento....cash the check...keep the momento...keep the momento...buy a new car...keep the momento...buy a new car...

Bought a new car!

Good advice for getting rear ended:
Skip all the People's Lawyer whiplash crap, and make sure that you only drive in front of vey rich people!

03-20-2001, 08:28 AM
damn, chris.

was she pretty in person? Nice?

was she wearing those doggoned overalls?

did she smell good?

did she take her sunglasses off?


03-20-2001, 10:24 PM
damm magician. you really need to get out a little more.

03-20-2001, 11:14 PM
Hey, hey now michael!!!! A vivid and maleable imagination is the sign of a great mind!!! Besides, Mag stays really busy.........I on the other hand am the unmarried one around here. I really DO need to get out more.

At age 43, it almost seems like the great gals are married or have boyfriends already. Ahhh........That said, it seems like my system resources are doing really well despite running solo.


(i will be more than happy to observe any answers to the questions Mag asked of chris in Mags last post)

03-21-2001, 12:27 AM
that very well may be true, Michael.

but the questions still stand.


03-25-2001, 11:10 AM
More on Winona, she was very nice, civil, collected, oddly enough NORMAL. She was wearing a pretty Gap sort of outfit, black Capri pants, nice vintage cut top, and Mary Janes with a bit of heel (the highlight of my day!).

Couldn't smell anything other than hot brakes.

Sunglasses came of breifly, and she looked as good in person as could be hoped for. While some think that if you look pale on screen you must be translucent in real life, I would argue that the opposite is true, and by that logic, George Hamilton must be dookie brown in real life!

03-25-2001, 11:43 AM
If it had been me, and having sort of a "thing" for Winona, I would have made a complete ass of myself, I'm sure.


[This message has been edited by crazyeights (edited 25 March 2001).]