View Full Version : Norton System Works 1.0

12-01-2000, 10:56 PM
Hey, Gang.

Has anyone tried out Norton System Works 1.0 (NUM 6 and NAV 7)? I'm wondering whether to install on Swinger, my badboy 9600. I've run both on Crooner, my backup 'puter (also a 9600 with 9.0.4. and so far so good. Obviously none of the NUM "trash" components are installed (disklight, crashcause, etc.).

Please relate your experience.

On an utterly unrelated note, everyone check out a m ovie called Pitch Black. It's on PPV and is available for rental. Best space/thriller/mean alien movie since Alien, I think. Nice twist on things, great characters, great direction, very fun script and when you trace all plot line backwards, everything makes sense and nothing is superfluous or overdone. In fact, the director almost demands that you really pay attention as small yet important details are not flashed on a neon sigh for the weakest cranial link in the crowd to catch.

Lemme know what you think (of course, you have the right to disagree, you'll just be wrong).


12-02-2000, 12:33 AM
I salute you, you who are brave enough to run "Norton Crash Guarantee" products.
YMMV, but I avoid all Norton like a plague.

Mad Dog

I wanted to see PItch Black, one of the characters is on Farscape.

12-02-2000, 05:17 AM
Hey Darin,

Yeah, Pitch Black was a pretty good thrill. Definitely tapped my adrenaline reserves.


12-02-2000, 10:57 AM
i'm running norton 6 on my S900 G3 500, cheetah laden work horse and it works a peach.

pitch black had its moments. i wouldn't favorably compare it to alien however which was a masterpeice of suspense and characterization. PB's premise was good (actually based on an old Poul Andersen short story) but the characters were quite unbelievable.they didn't reamin true to from. major shifts in personality came without any setup. also the director played fast and loose with the audience's feelings. that's unfair. characters disappeared with little warning and the main protagonist was quite unbelievable. i mean hand to hand combat. also the ending was a total cop out. it was a deliberate red herring which i think tends to dispute your assertation that the plot lines were logical and coherent. in fact the whole redemption scene was clumsily handled.

but compared to most sci fi fare these last few years, it certainly was a cut above. the effects were original and the cinematography was good.


[This message has been edited by Michael (edited 02 December 2000).]

12-02-2000, 02:09 PM
Aliens (#2 in the series) is the gold standard by which I judge all other similar flicks. Alien (#1) was almost as good but a little longish in the setups and the later efforts were second class. The pacing in Aliens was superb, with beautiful setups and delivery. I was on the edge of my seat for an hour and forty-five minutes and didn't even realize it! The mama-to-mama battle was a trifle overdone but Sigourney Weaver pulled it off. The characterization of the marine squad of the future was as real and believable as it gets. I look forward to taking a peek at Pitch Back.

It's great to take a break and discuss some of the really important things in lIfe http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

12-02-2000, 03:31 PM
i just need to comment on that mcmike.

alien and aliens 2 are entirely different movies. aliens is a classic suspense film in the mold of hitchcock, where it isn't what you see but what you don't see that keeps you glued to your seat. while it did deviate into some graphic areas notably the infamous dinner scene, alien was graphically restrained letting you use your imagination to fill in the blanks. that's why it was so effective. also ridley scott set the standard by creating a clauterphobic set of dim and dingy tunnels and hallways. it's since become a cliche but you have to remember when it first came out, i think in 78 or 79, i'm not sure, it was absolutely state of the art.

aliens2 is another beast. cameron wisely decided to take the film into another direction entirely, therefore avoiding any unfavorable comparisons. his film is basically a buddy war flick and very true to the genre. no one creates tension like cameron and his approach to actionn has more in common with the guns of navaronne then any sci fi flick. again highly original and effective. i agree, it is one to use a a yardstick, but i would say both films are at the top of the game. aliens 3 was a mess. not only did it insult the audience, but you never could connect with the people. ripley became a sort of symbol and there is where the franchise almost died.

i have yet to see aliens4, but for some funny reason i don't feel compelled to.


12-02-2000, 04:33 PM
Aliens 4 is worth seeing once, if only so you can enjoy Winona Ryder in a tank-top (the girl has got an amazingly nice rack for such a skinny chassis).

Aliens, number 2, is one of my all-time faves just for the strong acting, strong characters, and great lines. Paul Reiser was so believable as the slimeball corporate weenie, and the supporting cast of Space Marines was great. How many movies have had lines get subsumed into popular culture? How many times have we all whined, "game over! Game over!"

How about, "he can't make that kind of call, Ripley. He's just a grunt--no offense."

"None taken. I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."

That's still my favorite part of the movie. That and the part where whatshisname asks Vasquez if she's ever been mistaken for a man and she replies, "no--have you?"

And of course, Vasquez and the LT pulling the pin on the grenade in the finest tradition of the Corps.

ok....one more. When Vasquez yells, "Let's rooooock!" and opens up on the beasts.

Awesome flick. I wish I hadn't seen it so many times.

I will definitely check out PB now. Thanks for the tip.


12-02-2000, 05:26 PM
Let me clarify and embellish...

There's no question - Alien (first one) is an absolute treasure and deserves, in it's own way, to be considered an archetype in the way that Blade Runner, The Godfather, Jaws and even Rocky all broke through with a new kind of story and presentation that each spawned an entire genre of pitiful rip-offs. I did enjoy the Alien follow-ups, but Alien is *so* far superior that perhaps I should have been more clear in my distinction regarding Pitch Black's stature.
Pitch Black is not Alien. It is simply another movie born from the very, very potent seed that Alien sewed. That being said, with so many of these movies royally sucking, Pitch Black was refreshing in that it had it's own voice.

I *do* think that the characters were believable within the boundaries of the film. More so, the way that certain characters evolved or had their qualities revealed, was consistent in such a way that if you watch it a second time, all the small details and hints that are laid out in the early parts of the movie are there for a reason and can all be traced through to their own conclusions.
Alien is a classic film. Pitch Black is a really good movie. With all the shitty movies being made, it's refreshing to see such a nice little sleeper like Pitch Black come by. And come on, who wouldn't want to be Riddock?

If you want to talk about some of rthjne more recent breakthrough FILMS, lets's talk Fight Club.

People all hemmed and hawed over American Beauty as such a great tale of the everyman saying "enough is enough." Well, I say that Fight Club is a far more cutting and poignant portrayal of what someone basically "snapping" is all about.

It's got some Network, some Jeckyl and Hyde, some Psycho and more, all rolled into a disturbingly accurate depiction of the generationless folks in between the baby boomers and the gen X'ers. There are many days that I wish I had the disposition of Tyler Durden. The idea that only the man with nothing to lose is truly capable is a very seductive and true concept, especially in this age when we have all become so dependant on tools that so far exceed our own minds and two hands.

Any thoughts?

[This message has been edited by darin (edited 02 December 2000).]

12-03-2000, 12:18 AM
http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/mad.gif Dammit, Darin, why you always gotta be pickin' on the little forums, the innocent, backwoods, simple ones, like USB and Networking Issues, and now System Software Tips, to spread your insidious brand of chatsloth. Honestly, folks come to talk about real issues, like virus utilities, the merits of the available patterns in Graphing Calculator, and font archivers, and all you can do is turn our peaceful way of life into a discussion of modern action-drama cinema.

It's people like you that make the MacGurus Forums the way they are...

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Bwahahahahahaaaa!!! I love it.

( http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/alert.gif All of you that have found this thread belong to the truly special (some say deranged) group that I propose takes the name Backwoods Browsers in recognition of their dedication to righting wrongs, fighting evildoers, and eliminating the most esoteric Finder crashes. Darin can be in his own group, the BackDoor Browsers, in recognition of his special dedications, etc. http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/tongue.gif )

Now, IMNSHO, Alien and Aliens are two totally separate movies. I agree with Michael. Alien was a great adaptation of a great sci-fi/horror novel, and Aliens was an action drama with http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/kickass.gif Space Marines and incredible special effects, including some of the best puppetry and slime ever. Favorite moment: Aliens, when Sigourney steps out of the elevator to fight the queen down in her lair, and all you can hear is her ragged breathing and the hissing pilot light on the flamethrower.

Darin, I'm right there with you on Fight Club. I thought it was great. I started carving all my soap into custom shapes myself. I want to point out that Neuromancer combines the techno-thriller genre with the power-of-the-powerless theme with its depiction of a chaotic drifter as engineer of massive change which he does not fully understand but is willing to undertake since it gives him a life.

Lastly, did anybody see Unbreakable? I just did, and I thought it was great, but I've never heard so many mixed reviews. I know a lot of people thought it sucked, but in a strange parallel to our Alien/s discussion, I think it and Sixth Sense were totally different movies in most respects. Great camera work and acting/dialogue, more minimalist than anything. Loved it.

Bring the noise. And darin, don't drop the soap. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

12-03-2000, 11:10 AM
Hey Fellow Space Travellers,

Just to be narrow minded for a moment, I will propose the following scenario and solicit comments/suggestions: Your wife (who absolutely hates SCi-Fi/Fantasy and would rather watch Dirty Dancing over and over all weekend) leaves for the weekend to visit her sister and leaves you alone in the house for the weekend. Since you have busted your ass all week at work, you have neither the energy nor the charm (ain't got your mojo workin') to go out and get into trouble so you decide to have yourself a weekend long Sci-Fi/Fantasy movie marathon. After purchasing the proper refreshments and healthfood snacks, you truck down to the Blockbuster and get:

Alien, Aliens, Predator (I and II), RoboCop, Dune, Terminator (I and II), The Dark Crystal (gotta love them Skekksies), Back To The Future, Jurassic Park, StormTroopers (for laughs), Total Recall, and what else??

12-03-2000, 01:16 PM
>....and what else??

Arent you forgetting The Matrix ? Best shoot out scenes in Hollywood.
Also,dont forget BladeRunner.

Whats "Stormtroopers" ?

Mad Dog

12-03-2000, 02:37 PM
Yup, yup....two good ones I forgot about. Stormtroopers was a tongue-in-cheek save-the-galaxy from marauding hordes of nastie giant beetle-like creatures. It was really a spoof of the genre but with excellent special effects and a fair amount of gore. Came out sometime in the mid-nineties.

12-03-2000, 07:02 PM
Don't I get credit for mentioning Blade Runner first? Come on, man!


Good call on the Matrix. It definitely belongs on any serious movie buff's shelf. And for the silly side, there's always Hardware Wars, the low, low budget, spoof of Star Wars. I loved the lazy and bad attitude of the character based on Harrison Ford, "Ham Salad."

Two points that should be addressed:

1) While I am the undeniable king of taking a topic off track, I did start this one, so... but it would be great if, in addition to the movie gab, you all could post any experience with the versions of NUM 6 and NAV 7. I have that gut feeling that it's okay to install them on Swinger, but just want to be sure. Mag? What's your call?

2) Despite many of the gags here (and, no doubt, ones that will be posted in the future) I do not actually stick things in my ass. I occasionally pull small furniture out of it, but that's a whole different story. Furthermore, I do bathe and keep my place clean (you never know when a chick may want to see your place - you KNOW she doesn't want to see the skid mark undies!). I actually have the essential bachelor's maid service come bi-weekly. But enough about the private Darin for now.

Oh, before we get back to the actual topic, if you like Radha Mitchell, the oh so cute heroine from Pitch Black, check her out in 'High Art' with Ally Sheedy. The two of them get it on.

It's like the adult male equivalent to hearing "Ice cream truck!" as a kid. "Lesbian scene!" just immediately gets you running for the remote.

Am I right or am I right?

[This message has been edited by darin (edited 03 December 2000).]

12-04-2000, 03:39 AM
i would totally agree except I'm not so sure I want to see Ally Sheedy naked.

for lesbian scenes...what was that gangster flick with Gina Gershon and whatshername? You know...one of the Arquette sisters, right? Damn, THAT was lesbianism, which deserves a studious nod from some of the most cogent movie reviewers I am proud to be among.


dookie, you had me rolling. And yes, darin, you DO get cudos for mentioning Blade Runner first. It is an absolutely critical flick in the genre. I really love the way Scott handles the ambience of future LA. So gritty, foggy, so pacific-rim.

Starship Troopers is the other one you guys are forgetting. Definitely a lesser film, but still required for those quiet solo Saturdays when you refuse to do any yard work or go farther than the fridge for another beer. I live for Saturdays like that.


no personal opinion, at this time, on System Works. I have not installed it on any mission-crit machines. Yet.

who saw the Sci-Fi channel version of Dune? I felt that it took too many liberties with Herbert's work, but is fine as entertainment. In a lot of ways, I think Lynch's version is truer to Herbert, though it, too, took too many liberties.

Look. I'm not saying these versions of Dune sucked, ok? I will definitely watch the second installment Monday night, especially if they have a later showing that doesn't conflict with Monday Night Football. I just think that Frank Herbert wrote one of the seminal series in all of science-fiction, created a complete and believable future universe that is unrivalled in its internal coherence and complexity, and I think it deserves better. I was hoping that finally, someone would do a great Dune movie. I am still waiting.

what's the latest on the LOTR movies? Isn't the first installment scheduled for release this month sometime?

I'm wondering if we shouldn't create separate sci-fi and movie forums. It might be better to just continue our digressions in the threads of the other forums, I guess. I definitely like these digressions.

Darin, it's ok if you put stuff up your ass. I still will consider you my friend, and I will defend to the death your right to anally pleasure yourself anytime you like, as long as you are not in my presence. What you do alone, or in company with other butt-brothers, is your business.

Now, go clean out your fridge. I hate to think about what's still in there, after all these months.


12-04-2000, 08:25 AM

12-04-2000, 10:26 AM
sorry to spoil the party guys, but those are not 'lesbian scenes'. those are male fantasy lesbian scenes as imagined and orchestrated by voyeuristic male horn dogs. real lesbians don't look or act like that. that having been said, Gershon was/is hot.

i think MM did mean 'starship troopers' when he said 'stormtroopers'. (which reminds me of another must see. Elsa, the SS Stormtrooper. not remotely science, but definitely fiction)

Dune the movie actually highlights something i have felt for years. most movie directors are not perceptive about SF. they either view it as a vehicle for pyrothechnical SFX (anything by Swarzenegger or Stallone), or turn it into some kind of hippy-dippy flower child (see 3rd encounters, or contact, or even 2001) and ultimately naive and childish excursion into the meaning and origin of life. (monty python did that supremely, thank-you very much).

Dune was a wonderful book. (the franchise went steadily down-hill from the first installment) yes, herbert did fully realize a universe, but really what made that book so engrossing was the fact that it was nothing more or less than a glorified political soap opera. i mean after thousands of years of so-called evolution and all the universe could come up with was a Roman styled empire? but oh the intrigue. we could only wish washington was half as interesting.

i thought lynch's vision was extraordinary. the physical look of the film has never been rivalled. the juxtaposition of the quaintly antique with the highly technical gave the film a unique look. i think lynch did the best he could with the material. i would argue and say no one could translate dune into an understandable 2 hour movie. maybe a mini-series but not a movie. there are some things film can never do. and that is rival the texture, depth, and sweep of a good novel.

i fear the same thing will happen with Lord of the Rings. these are epic works that span generations and demand significant portions of your life to experience. it will be impossible to translate all that into a 3 hour movie. no doubt, hollywood will manage to turn it into a swashbuckling love story with a bittersweet ending and some new age pap tacked on at the end to send everyone home believing they just had a profound spiritual awakening. (I doubt anyone in hollywood would understand what the real Lord was anyway. tolkein was a Christian writer and Lord is nothing more or less than his adaption of the ancient story of loss, redemption, prophecy and the ultimate fight between good and evil as set out in the Bible)

enough for one day.

12-04-2000, 12:19 PM
Re: Gina Gershon movie - I think you're referring to "Bound" - starred Jennifer Tilly as the mob guy's girlfriend

I concur on the sci-fi movie poll - loved Alien, less so Blade Runner - Matrix is good but that part where they meet the "Oracle" I found to be a bit slow - Sort of like the end of Gladiator...

12-04-2000, 10:40 PM

Yes, I meant Starship Troopers. I was trying to thinly disguise my hunt for good movies that I might not have seen with half-baked recollections of those I have seen. But...I'm so glad you mentioned The Lord of the Rings trilogy (and the Hobbit) Michael. If ever there were a series of movies that needed to be created and properly done, it is this series. I don't care how trite you want to make the story sound as a biblical interpretation, this series has the same effect on every young mind I have ever known. It is an epihany. It is a world in which it is absolutely permissable to investigate the morality of Christian teaching without any stigmata of organized religion. Creeds and beliefs have their own life in the universe of imagination that is Tolkien's masterpiece of fantasy. This series needs a big budget commitment from a state of the art studio to present it as it should be. It will be a classic for future generations. The cartoon efforts to date have been abysmally disappointing.

12-04-2000, 10:55 PM
I thought "Starship Troopers" was fun, but silly. Imagine in the futute, the military consists of a bunch of guys with rifles. Kind of like "Deliverance" with special effects.

What happened to artillery ? Mortars ? Armor ? Air support ? Machine guns ?
I guess in the future, they cant afford any of these things.

Mad Dog

12-05-2000, 02:23 AM
Bound...that was it.


12-05-2000, 10:47 AM
Lord of the Rings is unfortunately not going to come out until christmas 2001. One per year. You can download the trailer at apple.excite.com. Or at least you could two months ago.

I would like to contribute Logan's Run. It's a little old and cheezy looking, but the premise is great. You never really know until the end if he is actually telling the truth, or still following the plan. (and the idea of picking someone from the "circuit" is a bachelor's dream.) http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[This message has been edited by despaxas (edited 05 December 2000).]

12-05-2000, 01:42 PM

Christmas 2001 is a YEAR from now.

I liked Logan's Run. Jenny Agutter. Grrr. Nice outfits.


12-05-2000, 05:31 PM
It's been a while since I saw Logan's Run but are you referring to the part when she and Micheal York are shedding their fur coats in the ice cave?

Anyone notice how the guns that are used in Logan's Run are very similar to those that Arnie is now using in The 6th Day? - the side flames coming out of the barrels..????


12-05-2000, 06:07 PM
I don't really remember, Chris....it's been awhile. I just remember thinking "nice shanks," and that was pretty much it. I liked her little silk outfit.

I am pretty easily entertained, though. I'm not real demanding. I'm friends with Darin, after all.


12-05-2000, 07:26 PM
You see, M. is still just brewing over my refusal of his advances last summer at Macworld.

Trust me, NEVER let him know what hotel room you're staying in. I feel dirty just thinking about him: crying hysterically in the corner of the room, his far-too-small french maid outfit totally askew just after a told that him no, things just weren't "that way" with us.


I can't believe I made it outa there alive.


[This message has been edited by darin (edited 05 December 2000).]

12-05-2000, 11:46 PM
Dude, that wasn't Magician. That really was the maid. You were drunk from the revelry at the Power Computing afterparty (wait, that was 96... never mind) okay, the VXA afterparty, and magician, taking PITY on you, sent the only maid he could find that LOOKED like an aging reptile-snarfer with a pot belly and glassy eyes to help you out.

You should thank him. Magician, not the maid. When she realized you were "that way" her fibrilating heart was crushed. You fiend.

And what is this stuff about furniture? I think you've got a colony of little gnomes up in there not only producing furniture, but mining diamonds as well.

Catch me if you can. http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/cool.gif

12-06-2000, 11:11 AM
i certainly wasn't attempting to be trite by pointing out the thinly disguised biblical allusions in Tolkein's work. i think the LOTR resonates with people because it taps into a fundamental, almost primeval place in humanity. the need for redemption and release. besides, who wouldn't want to be part of the merry band of adventurers.

again i want to just reiterate that while all the movies mentioned had merit, some more than others, the whole problem with attempting to put the best sci fi on film is that no film can ever capture the subtleties, sub-texts, and huge vistas, not to mention the gee whiz factor of the best sci fi concepts. so there's always a loss of transmission. that goes for any great literature. so we are basically reduced to oogling comely actresses shanks.

now back to Gershon.....


12-06-2000, 02:19 PM
This will probably start some sparks but...comments on Event Horizon - whew - personally - a mess of a movie - over the top blood and gore and I just didn't get it. I didn't mind Pitch Black...Total Recall had that rather amusing Arnie's eyes bugging out part

12-06-2000, 07:55 PM
I liked Total Recall because of Sharon Stone.


I know, I know....I'm twelve.


12-06-2000, 08:01 PM
Because of Sharon Stone or was it the leg-crossing scene?

12-06-2000, 11:18 PM
I can't believe what I'm about to say...

I love movie chat as much as the next phreak, but can we *try* to throw in a few comments on Norton System Works 1.0 (NUM 6 and NAV 7)? If only to get it out of the way so we can concentrate on mob flicks as the next topic? I want a few more reports from the trenches as to how reliable the new versions are.

Whaddaya say?

Ooh, Pitch lack is on PPV again. Gonna go watch Riddock (Vin Diesel) kill one of those nasty, flying hammerhead meanies with his hands. BTW, watch for Vin Diesel. He got his first break in Private Ryan and his star is rising fast. I have a friend who is a famous author currently overseeing the production of a Hollywood adaptation of one of his stories and I guess the word is that Vin is the guy every director wants right now. My bet is he's going to be a big star.

Not as big as Mag, though.


12-07-2000, 01:14 AM
i think you're mixing up stone's movies. the leg-crossing or should i say uncrossing, which is what i think everyone is referring to, (not a very clear shot either) was in the ice-pick thingie verhoeven movie. fiction but not at all scientific.

obvioulsy no one has any experience with norton whatchyoumacallit. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


12-07-2000, 04:55 AM
damn...what was the name of that movie?

Final something....I liked that flick, too. I think I actually have a photo of Sharon in that scene...hmmm...just searched. Must be on a backup somewhere. It was called sharonallthewaytoshanghai.gif, I kid you not.

the horrific part was the ending.....with that ice pick under the bed.

still makes me shiver.


12-07-2000, 09:06 AM
Basic Instinct ;-)...

12-07-2000, 01:56 PM

Doesn't take much to set these guys off, does it? Actually though, I too am far more interested in Sharon Stone than the new Norton, which I don't have yet. Sorry, I am waiting for more comments about it too. k

12-07-2000, 02:03 PM
Still using the last generation Norton thingamadingies.

Thought of two more: 2001: A Space Odyssey and 2010 but I'm curious to hear what Michael thinks about books written from screenplays after the movie is produced (just to try and explain the psychedelic skullfreakin' of Stanley Kubrik). Sometimes I think I understand the movie and that scares me.

12-07-2000, 05:31 PM
you should be afraid, MM. Very afraid.

I remember going to see 2001 at the old Maya theatre in Denver when I was a kid....this was in the 70's, so, being young and and the '70's, we did what kids always do before they get on the bus and go to the movies on a field trip.

I, too, understood the movie.

Thank God I left those old vices in that long lost decade, where they belong.


Now....Sharon Stone....what a glorious, unrepentant woman. She's a predator. Make no mistake.


12-14-2000, 03:00 AM
You guys are hilarious........and oh so right...!!!

12-14-2000, 03:17 AM
Sharon Stone and I got naked and installed the new versions of NUM and NAV on my system and they work great.

So there.

May I also be the first here to express my utter horror over the fact that that imbecile is going to be our President. Trust me, all those who supported him will soon realize just how precarious a state we will be in with him as commander and chief.

This election was nothing more than a bitter partisan street fight with the Supreme Court acting as an arm of the GOP, handing the election to the Republicans. After seeing Gore's absolutely brilliant and moving concession speech and then seeing putz-boy's, I felt sick.

Back to our regular programming.

[This message has been edited by darin (edited 14 December 2000).]

12-14-2000, 03:24 AM
Old thread, but there is one movie you didn't mention,

A Clockwork Orange.......here's the REALLY scary thing.....I was 12 or 13 when my family saw that at the drive in theatre. They were mortified, I was enthralled....and became very sad at the end....I actually really "got it".

THAT'S scary.

Winona Ryder...............damn! Think about that name too..... http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

rockin thread


12-14-2000, 03:06 PM
Winona Ryder, aside from having a sensational rack, has got some phenomenal legs, too.

I just can't get past that vein in her forehead.

She also dresses like such a little slob. I guess if she were naked much of the time I would get over it...that would probably compensate for the vein, too.

I could care less who the president is as long as there is no more erosion of gun rights, no more abuse of national forest resources, no more taxes (which are already too high), and the economy needs to keep on churning with low unemployment, and high tech stock valuations on NASDAQ.

It's the economy (and my guns and computers) that really matter.

I do need to clarify about guns rights. I am not personally opposed to waiting periods, etc. What I do fear, along with all other paranoid gun owners, is the integration of government databases which include gun ownership data that would enable the government to easily confiscate my implements of killing. It's no one's business how many machine guns I have. Unless I make my neighborhood a free-fire zone. Then it's a law-enforcement issue. Not a consititutional issue.

The second amendment, more than anything else, is a built-in protection against tyrrany. An armed populace serves as a deterrent against an increasingly arrogant and self-serving government which is more concerned with its own perogatives than any sense of responsibility to the people. I realize I sound crazy. We'll see how crazy I am in the next 20-years. You think the Montana Freemen are a fringe group? You think the rise of American Militias is an aberration? These developments are a reaction to something happening in the American social fabric, and the government has some responsibility to bear here. Don't even get me started on Waco, Ruby Ridge, etc. Needless to say, they will want to doublecheck the gunsights on their tanks and helicopters before they come to my house. We know how to shoot here.

Common-sense measures that keep weapons out of the hands of criminals are good. Assuming that the gun laws needed in inner-city Philadelphia are the same laws needed in the wilds of Montana is retarded. No one wants guns in schools. I do want them in my house. And whatever I do in my house, in a law-abiding, non-sociopathic manner, is my business. Not the government's.

[This message has been edited by magician (edited 14 December 2000).]

12-18-2000, 03:39 AM
Damn Mag!! I didn't know you had it in ya....to anyone getting their news from somewhere besides the MultiNat's and the whores, you sound sane, and I'm with you, don't even get me started.....maybe we've bought a little time with dubya, but that's about it, now the MT urge makes sense. A massive PV array, top end sine wave converter for all those macs and sat link, and wind gen for backup, kick ass garden out back, and a small pack of rockin dogs to guard "the ridge".

Throw in Winona in some fatigues and webbing and I'm there (sans underwear of course).

Hmmm. Wish I could find that poster I downloaded......you could appreciate it. Top panel..3 side by side photo's.....Stalin...Hitler...Mao...

The caption reads: World leaders agree....gun control works....

Hmmm...you got all the good macs....you own a Garrand?

REMEMBER AUSTRALIA!!!! http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/mad.gif http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif


[This message has been edited by crazyeights (edited 18 December 2000).]

12-18-2000, 04:28 AM
no comment, dave.


12-18-2000, 01:52 PM
prudent response


12-18-2000, 05:37 PM
C'mon, guys..

The government is our friend. If guns were banned there wouldn't be any more violent crime and school shootings would stop. We have to do SOMETHING, don't we?

( If you can't detect the sarcasm here, please beat head against floor, repeat as necessary )

12-18-2000, 06:51 PM
I think the solution is to arm all teachers, and especially, arm all moms.

that will take care of it. The last thing I would want, if I were a criminal, is to deal with a terrified, armed mother protecting her children.

all criminals would die within one year.


12-18-2000, 09:41 PM
A applaud your comment M.

They gave the law abiding residents in New Hampsire a license to carry a concealed weapon and crimes, rapes, thefts etc fell over 50%. (don't remember the exact number but that is in the ball park).

We are having a hell of a time here in Taxachussets in regards to gun rights. The local government has given the police chiefs power to decide who and who cannot get a license. No one gets concealed licenses unless you carry half a mil to the bank or the chief is your uncle.


12-19-2000, 12:55 AM
there's an idea..........

12-20-2000, 07:48 PM
j, reminds me of when I lived in Washington, the state, not the city.

anyone could get a CCL there, and we all did. Everyone was packing in those days.

there was a big story in the local media there about a local guy, he was in the Army, who bought a house in a "distressed" neighborhood and moved his family in there. On the same block, apparently a local gang was engaged in criminal capitalism selling crack.

Tensions escalated, until one day the Army guy invited a bunch of pals over for a Saturday barbecue. This is a true story. They all happened to be packing heavy iron, complete with shot guns and semi-auto rifles in their trunks. All legit, all legal.

I don't remember how things started, but there was an actual gun battle in that neighborhood. Cops were evacuating people under fire, and the gang members and the Army guys in different houses exchanged fire and kept each other pinned down for like an entire day. I believe it finally stopped when the gang members were all wounded, or otherwise surrendered. I believe this was even profiled, with imaginable fan-fare, in Soldier of Fortune. I remember hearing about it on the news, and read about it there. This all happened after I had left Washington and moved to California in the late '80's, I believe. It might have been later, in the early '90's. I can't remember.

I'm pretty sure that the Army guys all got off with dismissed charges, or were never charged with a crime. Obviously, they claimed self-defense, and had some evidence in the form of news station video, bullet holes, and expended casings littering the floor of the crack house.

It was a cause celebre in the gun media, as you can imagine.

I'm not in favor of firefights in our neighborhoods. But I sure would prefer to have the right to carry if I lived in a neighborhood like that. Can you imagine how the headlines might have read if those guys had lacked the means to defend themselves?

12-20-2000, 11:32 PM
Please do not condem President Bush until he has actually done something to deserve it....my god we put up with Bill for 8 years lets give W a chance.and PLEASE don't tell me that Gore gave an impressive speech..he totally read the thing off a teleprompter..who knows if he even saw it before he read it....he was still hung over from the night before http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I meant to say...please no politiacal talk in here*LOL*

12-21-2000, 06:35 AM
I don't think this has a lot, really, to do with either Gore or Bush. Of the two, Bush is probably friendlier to guns-rights activists than Gore, anyway.

don't mind us. We're just a bunch of crazed gun nuts.

and your point about talking politics on this forum is well-taken. We often digress here, though we usually talk sports, babes, movies, and sci-fi literature.

we also like to talk about Darin's weird sexual proclivities, and his reluctance to clean his house.


12-21-2000, 10:03 AM
I'd absolutely LOVE George W Bush if he'd only admit on national television that he packs blow up his nose like Robert Downey Jr..

12-21-2000, 11:06 AM
Gore wants to see all guns off the street. Sure, doing this takes guns out of law abiding citizens leaving the illegal guns out there. Can you imagine this happing? Only cops and robbers with guns? Its the irresponsible gun owners that are at fault as are the politicians. Pisses me off!

In Massachusetts, I can't buy a handgun manufactored after 1998. The state safety officer passed a saftey law or what the hell it is banning all hand guns without a certain safety feature. Only Smith and Wesson signed the agreement and can sell their hand guns. Only private sales of hand guns made between 1998 to the present are allowed. Can't buy them out of state since you must go through a gun dealer. I tried. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

We can still buy Shotguns and rifles. Don't know if this law is legal or not or how the hell he gets away with this crap but in Massachusetts, anything is possible. Hate the poltics here.

As for Bush, at least he is smart enough to know that he is stupid enough not to speak in public without a pre written speech. Gore is stupid enough for anything. Wish John McCain would have won.


12-21-2000, 05:13 PM
did you guys see the booking photo of Robert Downey in the latest People? My wife gets that magazine. The dude has a total junky thousand yard stare. He looks like absolute shit, like he was getting wasted for days.

really sad. Really, really sad. Maybe it was Time or Newsweek. I forget. There was an article about how narcotics trigger physical changes in the brain that result in addiction.

this should be required reading for all kids who are thinking about experimenting with drugs. Experiment too much, and you end up with an altered brain that continually craves the dopamine release narcotics trigger.

I mean, this is a guy, who if he lived his life right, could have almost any woman, could win an academy award, could live a life of incredible security and luxury, and indulge almost any whim. Instead, he puts it up his nose, and injects it into his arm. What a waste.

If it were legal to waste drug dealers, and the populace were armed, with bounties paid for each carcass drug into the nearest police precinct, drug trafficking would dwindle overnight.

good thing I'm not president. I'd reinstate frontier justice.

12-21-2000, 06:29 PM
The thousand yard stare was most likely from his methamphetamine usage. Staying up for several days straight tends to do that. I've seen many, many people go down that road. After a while they get this wierd, twitchy intensity to them. Unfortunately, I get to deal with people like that all the time.

I don't fully buy into the drugs triggering addiction thing. I think personality tends to factor into the equation as well. I agree there are physical changes caused by chronic usage, but I think there has to be an existing condition as well to cause someone to go so far down that road..

12-22-2000, 09:14 PM
JP, you raise a good point. After all, people have been figuring out different ways to get loaded for thousands of years. What the hell made American Indians eat Peyote buds, for example? Sure, they were used in rituals, but altered consciousness was the goal, nonetheless.

12-22-2000, 09:19 PM
Addictions come in many flavors, you know.

After, all , what makes people start buying computer parts and putting them together, and trying to get the most speed out of them ?

I dont know what causes it, but I WANT MORE ! http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/jollyroger.gif

Mad Dog

12-23-2000, 03:55 AM
Anyone else notice Bush lately on TV giving out those cabinet positions? He needs a SERIOUS procesor upgrade .he speaks so slowly...i wannna RIP the words out of his throat...he should be thankful he won and stay the hell off TV for the next 6 months before someone catches on and reopens the vote counting!!! I too was rooting for McCain!!

Having 2 daughters approaching the teen years i am aware of how things have changed even in the past few years concerning drugs....i was watching some show on MTV about a girl messing her life up on ecstacy....they showed a Brain scan of a normal 19 yyear old and then showed her brain scan...it was a total mess..looked like a swiss cheese....this was after only a year of doing the drug. i am not naive enough to think my daughters will avoid drugs all together.i just pray they don't like it!!!!

Anyone see Robet Downey Jr on Ally Macbeal(my wife got me hooke.....i promise*L*)
he is very talented..and a great singer too..i hope he doesn't wind up dead like so many other great talents ..i don't understand addictions like that where they take over your life .......well off to price shop G4 xlr8 cards and X15 drives...this 450 G3 card and dual cheetah raid system is just too slow......he-he!! j/k http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

12-24-2000, 01:15 AM
making computers go fast can be very addicting, indeed. But it's a hobby. If you overspend, you'll simply burn a couple of credit cards. You won't abandon your kids, steal from your parents, and end up turning tricks in a crackhouse to feed a computer hardware addiction.

these new chemical designer drugs are absolutely frightening. I mean, I keep reading about these drugs slimeballs slip to chicks in their drinks so they can have their way with them, and these poor stupid girls wake up the next day wondering if anything happened. I think there are some recent accounts on www.apb.com. (http://www.apb.com.)

the thing is, it seems like anyone with an erector set chemistry set and a college text book can figure this stuff out and brew up their own concoctions. I haven't even tried looking for ecstasy cookbooks on the web, but I have a sinking suspicion that they are widely available.

the only defense is to raise your kids right, teach them to respect themselves and their brains and their health, and to pray your ass off. The shit is available. At any school dance, any prom, any nightclub.

again, open season on drug dealers, and legions of armed moms and dads would take care of a lot of it. Sure, there would be abuses, and mistakes, and innocents would die. That could be legislated, and handled by due process and laws. But if it were legal to blow away any drug dealer, as long as you busted caps on the slimeball when he was caught in the act, how many kids would be saved?

Wouldn't it be more effective, overall, and socially, than the bullshit we waste money on now?

12-24-2000, 01:57 PM
Magician, open season on human slime would be a tempting, and certainly satisfying idea. Just make sure to buy stock in Remington when the time comes.

Just as bad as people selling drugs is the realization that what they sell is even more poison than a user might think; I doubt any one of these "back alley chemists" can make the drugs without a large degree of contamination. Ajax in your crack, anyone ?

In any case, I keep telling my wife that my computer/Ebay madness is certainly cheaper than a crack habit. I _dont_ think that argument holds much water though...... http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Mad Dog

12-25-2000, 12:24 AM
well, civilized folk inevitably inveigh against "vigilantism," and decry it as the death-knell for society.

when I was young, I lived for a time with my grandparents on a ranch in Southern Colorado. No one locked their doors. Everyone waved at each other as they passed on the road. If someone's livestock got out, you stopped, herded them, and closed the gate for your neighbor. Then you drove over and let him know what happened, and had a beer while you talked about the weather and the lack (or surplus) of irrigation water.

everyone was polite, always. I believe now that most people were polite because they were simply good, honest folk, but the fact that all of them were armed is not irrelevant. Horse rustlers were still fair-game in those days. I remember hearing about local ranchers shooting rustlers who were trying to steal cattle and horses. Sure, the ranchers had to talk to the Sheriff, but charges were never brought, as the rules were clear: Rustlers knew that if they were apprehended in the act and tried to run, they were subject to getting shot. No one was ever prosecuted for protecting their property.

later, I spent a lot of time in Missoula and Livingston, Montana. It made me very nostalgic for those days when I lived with my grandparents. The degree of courtesy was extraordinary. I can't help but suspect that the fact that every truck parked outside the Old Murray Hotel had a rifle in a window rack had something to do with it.

it is my belief that allowing good people the right to protect themselves and their property without fear of prosecution is fundamental. Here in Delaware, if someone invades your home with bad intentions and you blow them away, you better do it while they are facing you. If you shoot them while they are running out the back door, you will be prosecuted.

my feeling is, if you are in my home uninvited in the middle of the night, I'm going to bust caps on you regardless of the direction you are facing. I shouldn't have to worry about it. If you don't want to get shot, don't go snooping around someone's house in the middle of the night. Stay home.

drug dealers are, in my opinion, a special hazard, particularly to our young. So many of these scumbags try to work their way into junior high schools, recruiting kids to front for them and sell among their peers. Commonsense laws, like those that existed for cattle rustlers when I was young, and a universally armed populace, would certainly put a dent in their operations. In the same way that rustlers knew they were subject to be shot on sight, drug dealers would rapidly learn that moms and dads nationwide were their greatest enemy, and it is my belief that there would be less violence, less drug distribution, less criminal activity, and more courtesy.

12-25-2000, 05:24 AM
Yes, times have changed, haven't they? Magician, the only problem I see with civilians being allowed to dispatch dope dealers is the lack of due process. As we all know, there are an awful lot of people who would start to lean on the side of presuming suspicious behaviour as drug dealing.

I'm in a cash business, and have to carry a lot of cash. Hell, the way the Federal and state forfeiture laws are now, if I get pulled over for speeding and I have a lot of cash on hand, if the trooper wants to be an asshole, he can take my money, and leave me to prove I'm NOT a dope dealer. If they need evidence to back themselves up, all they have to do is test the money for traces of narcs. Unless it just came out of a strap of bills from the fed, it ALL has traces of drugs on it. It could get pretty out of hand.

So far as weapons, I'm with you. I have friends who have become "estranged" when they learn I have a couple of Mossberg 500s in the house, despite they fact I haven't seen those guns ever move by themselves. But if anyone ever has the balls to break into my house when I'm here, I'll wrack a round and if they don't split, we ain't gonna talk about it. I hope I never have to go there, but it's hard to have remorse for having to pop another human being when you're dead. I'd rather feel bad, than feel nothing.

Interesting saying I heard recently regards to self defense: "It is more politically and socially correct to be a raped dead woman with her panties stuffed in her mouth than it is to be a woman who carries a gun, and knows how to use it". Strangely, there is truth to that for most liberal folk.

Yes, it would be nice to live in Utopia, and have no need for lethal force. It would also be nice if Winona Ryder and Angelina Jolie knocked on my door tonight and told me they wanted to spend many nights and years with me until I'm about 80 y.o

"the only defense is to raise your kids right, teach them to respect themselves and their brains and their health, and to pray your ass off. The shit is available. At any school dance, any prom, any nightclub."

Amen to that. Without going into a segway from politics and guns to religion, all the drugs, hell most of the wantom excess generally, is only a symptom of spiritual malaise. So much of what comes at us everyday is to keep us dumb, numb and spending. I think youngsters have so much harder a time discerning what to use as a vector to navigate life.

Your mention of what it was like to live among good decent folks strikes a real chord.

I remember going to the Canadian boundary waters with my dad when I was 14y.o. on a canoe pack trip. Fished, camped and listened to the wolves howl at night. Sunday, on the way back to Indianapolis, the station-wagon started driving weird, 3 of the lugs had broken off, and the last 2 were loose. We pulled into this station in a little town in N. Minnesota, and the guy there put our car on the rack to fix it, only had 1 lug, so he had to go a couple of miles to get 2 more. Left us there with the station open "to hold down the fort". He came back, and talked with us the whole time as he fixed the car. Took over 2 hours. When he was done he wouldn't let my dad pay him. He said he was thankful just to have some good company on a Sunday.

Good decent folks, who live by the time tested principles their folks taught them. Man, that's where I want to be.

I'm rambling, and it's really late. Check out the link below. Pretty cool....

I hope we all have a great holiday, and are fortunate enough to be a help to others that just don't think they have many blessings to be thankful for. Every kindness matters. That's one of the reasons why I enjoy hanging out here now and then. You are a bunch of pretty good guys.

12-25-2000, 01:19 PM
my feeling is, if you are in my home uninvited in the middle of the night, I'm going to bust caps on you regardless of the direction you are facing. I shouldn't have to worry about it. If you don't want to get shot, don't go snooping around someone's house in the middle of the night. Stay home.

Cant argue with that. Defend yourself i nany way these days and you are bound to get charged.

drug dealers are, in my opinion, a special hazard, particularly to our young. So many of these scumbags try to work their way into junior high schools, recruiting kids to front for them and sell among their peers. Commonsense laws, like those

Oh dear. You said "commonsense". Im afraid that commodity no longer exists.
Thats the real problem.

Mad Dog

12-27-2000, 11:14 AM
Hrm.. I'm about to go on a limb here..

I've been involved in the rave scene for almost 10 years, and have pretty much seen it all. Yes, the "evil" rave scene, the one that's "only about drugs". I'm a DJ, and have been involved in promotional work as well. One thing I havn't seen is someone who has had their life ruined by a drug dealer "forcing" them to take this or that pill, this or that powder, whatever. While I understand that these things can and do happen in other situations and places, I think the public hysteria is making matters worse. If you havn't noticed, drug use among teens is going down in most places. Alcohol use, and injuries/deaths atributed to it has gone up. The sad thing is, alcohol is almost state sanctioned.

I'm not going to tell anyone how to raise their children or how to live their lives, but remember, education is the key. Education taught me the risks I was taking years ago and education helped me avoid the pitfalls many people take.

btw, Magician, some people may view your Kava and/or alcohol consumption the same way you view MDMA (ecstacy ) or the other synthetics. You may say it's not the same thing, but I'll say this, ecstacy is commonly made from the same natural ingredient in sasparilla flavoring, the same stuff root beer is made from.

Disclaimer: I'm probably quite tired since it's still rather early in the morning and all of what I've said should be taken with a grain of salt. The only reason I know this much about drugs/alcohol is due to a couple research papers I did for several sociology classes. ( Thanks for the A's, Dr. Armstrong )

12-27-2000, 02:26 PM
actually, JP, I view my addiction to caffeine and nicotine in the same light. I am absolutely an addict. No doubt about it.

I have gradually decreased my reliance on caffeine to a point where it is no longer a health hazard, but I absolutely require that first cup of joe in the morning to activate my brain and get the neurons firing. If I don't get it, I am sluggish, and eventually, I will suffer headaches. I am absolutely physically addicted to caffeine.

Likewise to nicotine.

I have abused it for years, and it is very much a concern of mine. I started chewing tobacco in the Army, in 1982, and have been doing it with minor interruptions ever since. I smoked for a period of time, as well, and it definitely affected my health. So much so, that I went on the patch to quit, and was successful. After about six months, however, I resumed chewing tobacco, and now go through a can of Copenhagen about once a week. I do plan to go back on the patch to quit, later this year. I have no desire to get buccal cancer and lose half my face, fat as it is. Obviously, I need to do something about it. I plan to do so. I make no excuses about taking so long to finally address it--as I sit here typing this, a nice dip tucked under my upper lip.

your comments about the Rave scene are appreciated, and I must agree that there is no doubt that the media demonizes a lot of this, and I certainly must plead guilty to possible overreaction. What can I say? I'm a father, and I fear it. My son is brilliant, and has a wondrous future ahead of him, but drug addiction could destroy his life. Crack addiction, in particular, I view as absolutely evil.

I have been in crack houses that had to be seen to be believed, with kids and animals living in absolute squalor, insects everywhere, and numbed mothers slumped in a corner, begrimed with their own drool and the remnants of innumerable sexual encounters used to feed their addiction. I wish I had never witnessed scenes like this, but I have, and it has created in me an absolute lack of mercy for the purveyors of this stuff.

I am also astonished at some of the things that young people are doing these days to get high, particularly the fascination with inhalants. I have seen kids addicted to glue-sniffing in South America--glue sold by American corporations. My father-in-law watched clean-cut boys drive up to a local park in a late-model car, walk into the woods with a paper bag, and then return in an obvious state of euphoria. After they drove away, he couldn't help himself, and pulled the paper bag out of the garbage where they had left it. Oven cleaner. They had used the paper bag to contain the oven cleaner, and then inhaled it. I'm still staggered. What got him is, the kids looked like your average kids. Clean, well-dressed, total suburbanites. Just like his own kids.

So, yes. I do probably overreact. Ecstasy and other designer drugs are probably not in the same class as cocaine and the opiates, but without manufacturing standards and oversight, there is no telling what the hell is in that stuff. Feeling an urge to vigilantism is obviously not real enlightened. I plead guilty. And I accept the implication that my stance is somewhat hypocritical, considering my own addiction to caffeine and nictotine, even if you didn't make that point yourself.

I also agree, very much, that alcohol abuse is as much, if not more of a problem, particularly because it is, more or less as you mention, state sanctioned. I abused the hell out of alcohol when I was young. I rarely drink now, primarily because I realize how damaging it is. I need my brain now. I need it to work and live. If I were hopeless, and even latently suicidal, it would probably be my drug of choice. Millions of families are devastated by alcoholism annually. No doubt about it.

Prohibition didn't work the first time around, and it is not working now with illegal drugs. Do I advocate legalization? Probably. At least the industry then could be regulated better, and taxed hard, with the proceeds used to fund education and rehabilitation programs. This would be, IMO, better than the current "war on drugs," which I don't even want to start on here.

thanks for your comments. I know this thread has digressed far from its origin, but I value the opportunity to talk about anything beyond computers, sometimes.


[This message has been edited by magician (edited 27 December 2000).]

12-27-2000, 04:45 PM
Ecstacy is bad news. My bosses' son did ecstacy then got sick. Doctors till this day have no idea what he has. Though his emune system is defense mode and its non reversable. His body is actually killing him. Can't bare the sight of him as he is stuck in a nursing home slowly curling into the featle position. He is 28. Can't talk, only mumbles but his mind is in the correct state. That must be a bad bad feeling.


12-27-2000, 05:16 PM
Magician: Thanks, I get the feeling we share many of the same sentiments. There was a point in time where the rave scene was only about the music and you went to raves so you could dance to music you couldn't hear anywhere else. That ended almost immediately after it started. I'm still trying to regain that feeling of community I got almost 10 years ago. I guess that's why I'm still with it because I would like to try to make a difference in the scene. If people want to do drugs, fine, but don't bring them or sell them at raves. That's not what they're about.
Jorge: It probably wasn't ecstacy, there are jackasses out there who will sell anything to anyone while claiming it's ecstacy. There are also labs out there who are willing to publish the results of tests so that if people so choose to use these drugs, they can do a little research as to what they're actually purchasing.

12-27-2000, 05:19 PM
Oh, and Magician, I'm with you on the nicotine trip. I've cut down from 2 packs a day to around 1/2 of a pack or less. There was also a point when I was going through a bottle of Jim Beam every two days.

Let's just say, I'm feeling much better now. A little introspection and soul searching never hurt anyone..

12-27-2000, 08:05 PM
I worked in a liquer store since I was 13. Seen everything and what drugs and alcohol trully do to you. Prostitutes, cocaine deals in the store, alcohol abuse as well as nicotine. Don't smoke, enjoy a glass of wine or a beer every once in a while, and no drugs period. Went back there this Sunday as I helped my dad and cousin out for the Christmas rush and saw alot of old faces. Memories. Alot of F$#ked up people.

Remember the day this dude offered me an ozzie with 2 clips fully loaded in box for $40. I was 16!


12-27-2000, 08:23 PM
Wow, what a thread. It is encouraging to hear you quit tobacco with the patch Magician. I'm a pack a day smoker, and I have always been on the thin side (don't get any ideas Darin), age has made me fill out a bit, but my caffiene and smokes breakfast has a fairly low nutritional content.

But, I did give up drinkin about 12 years ago, and spend regular time helping those who's lives it has burned down, quit. Because of that, I have occasional but regular contact with people who are probably alcoholic, but have been cut down in a hurry by crack.

I have to agree with Mag on crack. Crack cocaine has made coke accessible to people with very little money, and it can "take out" someone with high blood pressure, sometimes with just a few uses. It is an EXTREMELY euphoric high, and when people with pressing life problems try it, it can be damn near impossible to put down. I'm glad it wasn't around when I was a teenager and experimenting with drugs.

Crack cocaine has significantly changed the face of the American urban environment, and in a fairly short period of time. The major suppliers of crack, when convicted, should do at least 8 years jail time before parole, and when there is also a firearms violation at the time of the arrest, they should do 12 years before parole possibility.

Many of these punks are used to getting popped, and doing time. It's a part of their social structure, after doing time a couple of times.

In the city they implemented Exile (is it Hartford?), these same punks show up in city or county court, cocky as hell (they know there is very little time they'll actually serve), and to their surprise, they are handed over to Federal authorities for Fed firearms violations, and assuming the evidence is valid, they are going to do some REAL time in fed prison.

In that city, crimes involving firearms, have gone down 50% in the past 2 years, and still dropping.

I agree, the "war on drugs" is nothing more than a highly visible political hook to hang the whipped up fears of the general public, used when it's time to use fear as a way to win votes. And that's without even going into "black ops" smuggling operations that have been around in asia decades before Iran Contra and Mena AR.

Yeah, I'm ranting again. Makes you want to have a rural spread with some fairly close like minded neighbors who still know what sticking with your neighbors means.


[This message has been edited by crazyeights (edited 27 December 2000).]

[This message has been edited by crazyeights (edited 27 December 2000).]

12-27-2000, 08:30 PM
Hey Magician, how about a forum for off topic rants and raves, with a disclaimer of course?

who knows. maybe not a good idea.


12-28-2000, 12:03 AM
I have been in crack houses that had to be seen to be believed, with kids and animals living in absolute squalor,insects everywhere, and numbed mothers slumped in a corner, begrimed with their own drool and the remnants of innumerable sexual encounters used to feed their addiction. I wish I had never witnessed scenes like this, but I have, and it has created in me an absolute lack of mercy for the purveyors of this stuff.

What in God's name would drag you into a crack house ? Its not in your job description is it ?

Mad Dog

12-28-2000, 12:52 AM
.......ride-along i bet.....

12-28-2000, 05:38 AM
it was, once.

now I'm a geek.


12-28-2000, 06:46 PM
Uh ohh..

Magician used to work for THE MAN! You've set all this up to SPY ON US!! Your just trying to KEEP US DOWN, MAN!

Actually, a friend of mine who's a Lt. in the local police force used work for the DEA and pretty much said the same thing. Not a very nice picture..

12-29-2000, 12:40 AM
dude, I did, but you will never find a former action guy (FAG, in the parlance) more fundamentally opposed to The Man and all he represents.

why do you think I left?

I was getting ready to tell the world about the global sellout to the Greys. Before I could gather indisputable proof, I was forced to resign for "health reasons."

most of the above is true. Which parts, I will never confirm.


12-30-2000, 05:44 AM
You are a funny guy Magician.........(image....Magicians face illuminated by the glow of multiple monitors with H.Heaven locked down, and the space monkeys out of cage for their evening cordials, frolicking around in the basement)

NOW we know why you are there so much after hours, and what those strange looking droppings are Debarooni keeps finding when she shows up in the a.m....!!!!


12-30-2000, 03:55 PM
and to think this thread started with NAV and NUM. We should send this whole thing top Symantec.


12-30-2000, 06:08 PM
make sure you send them to the Letters from Andromeda (http://www.lettersfromandromeda.com/dsg1/index.html) website, whatever you do.

we have to alert the masses to the machinations of the Greys.


12-30-2000, 06:26 PM
This is SHOCKING!!!!!

For the sake of ALL of us here on Terra Firma I DEMAND you create a new Forum Magician, something like THE LOOMING THREAT TO OUR VERY WAY OF LIFE!!!!!!

I KNEW it!! Those conspiratorial bastards.... http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/mad.gif !!!!

I'm not going to wait around for the rest of ya's. I'm going down to Walgreens¬ô and buying myself some chocolate Exlax¬ô and some candie molds, and taking matters into my own hands. When I'm finished, the........well you know.....will be running in the streets, and squeezably soft Charmin¬ô, nowhere to be found.....Gosh DARN is this upsetting.

Mag, thanks for the link!!!!!!!!


[This message has been edited by crazyeights (edited 30 December 2000).]

12-30-2000, 06:28 PM
p.s., do they even eat candy?

12-31-2000, 03:44 PM
the Reptilians apparently eat babies. Babies which are terrorized.

the Greys....not sure what they eat. Supposedly, they have a hive mind, and are very advanced genetically, cloning and duplicating humans for their nefarious plots...I don't recall reading what they eat.

01-01-2001, 05:01 AM
You know, just by virtue of this thread, people using S.Ws. 1.0 should be extra cautious.. I mean, this is a most excellent thread....and it has morphed a LOT. I wonder if forums have Feng Shui. In that regard, this is nothing less than an "auspicious" thread....for us. For S.W. 1.0, it must be "inauspicious".

Hey, any of you guys remember that old show (30 years?) "The Invaders"?

Never missed that show, that and Lost in Space, among others.

Anyway, hopefully my home made candies will do the trick. http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/mad.gif

HNY everyone!!!



[This message has been edited by crazyeights (edited 01 January 2001).]

01-01-2001, 03:03 PM
I like the original Avengers.

Dr. Emma Peel.


01-02-2001, 01:37 AM
Emma was a handsome woman!

01-02-2001, 12:52 PM
and a great pal, too.


01-04-2001, 01:48 AM

Yeah, Emma was seriously attractive!! Ahead of her time too!!!


01-04-2001, 05:12 PM
the only girl I ever saw that could kick your ass both physically AND at chess!

she was an absolute knock-out.

and talk about total class!

01-08-2001, 02:07 AM
Well, shall we discuss the merits of Gabriele Reese....?


01-08-2001, 06:16 PM
the tall volleyball player?

heck yeah. I love tall women. As a short man, myself, I have always really enjoyed hanging out with Amazons. When I lurked the Seattle underground in the early 1980's, I had a girlfriend named Liz....she was a real actress....and tall as hell. It was perfect. When we slow-danced, my face was right in her rack.


when jealous males wondered aloud how the hell a dwarf like myself could possibly score a babe like that, she would invariably reply, "it's purely sexual."

I sure did like that chick, even after I met her husband. He was real cool. Hell, I liked him as much as her, as a pal (but not in that other way). I think they split up...she moved to NY to go to some acting school....so we lost touch. She was phenomenal, though...and I miss her to this day.


on the subject of other awesome Gabrielle's, how about Gabrielle Anwar?

what a babe!


01-10-2001, 05:34 AM
Man,..........you live dangerously http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif .......

Yes, indeed, the tall volleyball player. Playboy did a nude spread of her in the January issue......ouch!!! (VISUAL: c8 biting his knuckle). She is in the best shape she's ever been.

Which one is Gabriel Anwar?

01-10-2001, 05:47 AM
Mag, here's an essay you might be able to appreciate. Written by a card carrying lefty Prof. of Constitutional Law (Sanford Levinson, UT Austin), and prior to Tiananmen Square, a gun grabber.

Always interesting when someone rationally sets aside being PC among peers, and gets gut level honest. After a fairly in depth discussion on ferreting out the real meaning of the framers of the Bill of Rights in their authoring of the 2nd Amendment, he makes some lovely statements (considering the source) which I've quoted below. Link to entire essay is at the end of post.

"It is no purpose of this essay to solicit membership for the National Rifle Association or to express any sympathy for what even Don Kates, a strong critic of the conventional dismissal of the Second Amendment, describes as "the gun lobby's obnoxious habit of assailing all forms of regulation on 2nd Amendment grounds." [93] And yet... Circumstances may well have changed in regard to individual defense, although we ignore at our political peril the good faith belief of many Americans that they cannot rely on the police for protection against a variety of criminals. Still, l et us assume that the individualist reading of the Amendment has been vitiated by changing circumstances. Are we quite so confident that circumstances are equally different in regard to the republican rationale outlined earlier?

One would, of course, like to believe that the state, whether at the local or national level, presents no threat to important political values, including liberty. But our propensity to believe that this is the case may be little more than a sign of how truly different we are from our radical forbearers. I do not want to argue that the state is necessarily tyrannical; I am not an anarchist. But it seems foolhardy to assume that the armed state will necessarily be benevolent. The American political tradition is, for good or ill, based in large measure on a healthy mistrust of the state. The development of widespread suffrage and greater majoritarianism in our polity is itself no sure protection, at least within republican theory. The republican theory is predicated on the stark contrast between mere democracy, where people are motivated by selfish personal interest, and a republic, where civic virtue, both in common citizen and leadership, tames selfishness on behalf of the common good. In any event, it is hard for me to see how one can argue that circumstances have so changed us as to make mass disarmament constitutionally unproblematic. "

01-10-2001, 03:53 PM
Gabrielle Anwar was in Invasion of the Body Snatchers, with one of those Tilly sisters. She TAKES A BATH.


I like that essay. Translation from Egghead to English: keep your guns.

01-11-2001, 03:31 AM
Oi veh!!

Invasion of the Body Snatchers eh? Remade racified bath scene version.


01-11-2001, 03:01 PM
she's gotta be, like 16 at most, in that movie.

there's another scene where she is totally nude....talk about nubile. She's in the dictionary.

she's been in a couple of other very forgettable movies since then, but I watch them anyway just to enjoy her pouty lips. Very beautiful girl. She's probably 24 or so now. She still looks GREAT.

01-12-2001, 04:36 AM
(Damn I feel base..........) We talkin full frontal M? Wouldn't she have to be 18 y.o. to be in film neked?


01-12-2001, 04:36 PM
unfortunately, no full-frontal. In profile. But it is still worth it.

I would imagine that she would have to be 18, but I'm telling you, Dave, she looks 16 at most. I did not feel like a perv, but that's me. I'm not saying I would actually ACT on the lust she elicited in me, but I definitely enjoyed watching her. Amazingly graceful, lithe, and just beautiful. Definitely worth renting the movie.


01-12-2001, 10:35 PM
Well then....of course I will rent it.

You're talkin about the fairly recent remake, 6-8 years ago, right?


01-15-2001, 04:39 AM
....and then there's Theresa Russell...she was the rich brat in "Wild Things" with Neve Campbell and whatshisname.....Cameron Diaz's ex-beau.

Ever seen Wild Things?

I can only imagine what the Apple engineers were thinking or looking at when they decided on "Yikes"!! Probably Theresa Russell....

01-15-2001, 12:22 PM
Correction: I think you might be thinking of Denise Richards. She's the one who played the brat who was boinking Matt Dillon and frenching Neve in Wild Things.

She's definitely a hottie, but I'd prefer the time tested sexiness of Theresa Russell, who *was* in the movie, but played Richards' mother. You know, the one schtupping the pool boy?

She's been burning up the screen for a while... back when Richards was a little girl with real breastessess.


01-15-2001, 06:35 PM
thank you, Darin. I knew it was Denise Richards, but I had a temporary brain block.

she is certainly very, very healthy. I really liked how dirty I felt watching her soul kiss Neve in that flick. I was bad. Very, very bad.

01-16-2001, 02:31 AM

Yes, she is healthy indeed. So thats her name. She was in Starship Troopers too, me thinks.

What a babe. I've been deliberately not dating anyone for about a year now. I watched that movie the other night, and I think it's time to get out a bit more....................damn......

How's things with you Darin? Have you been doin any gigs?


[This message has been edited by crazyeights (edited 16 January 2001).]

01-16-2001, 03:30 AM
yup, she was SUCH a little bitch in Starship Troopers....I definitely preferred that other chick, Diz...what was her real name again, Darin? (He knows. He knows all this stuff. I think he secretly reads People magazine--not that there's anything wrong with that.)


01-16-2001, 10:57 AM
Not sure what that other chick's name is yet... I'll find it. She is a cutie.

The gigs are starting to happen! I got all my Saturdays in March booked and am doing a trial Friday in March at Boston's famous Jimmy's Harbourside restaurant. It will be a real live dinner show, so I'm looking forward to that. If the thing gels, I'll be on every other Friday. The dough is an amount that I would have literally laughed at a year ago, but even with the mileage on my showbiz odometer, starting over is still starting over. Let's put it this way... the full night's pay is what I used to take home in my sweaty little pocket.

Aw, well. It'll be there again and then some.

I'm redoing my site now. Www.crooner.com (http://Www.crooner.com) is undergoing a major make-over. It's going to be more fun, more sarcastic and I'm finally going to get hip with what be down with the kids and convert my CD to MP3 for download. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Mag can attest, there is some funny shit there, so stop by and drop me a line.

Back to chicks.

I have to say that my all time, never ceases to knock me out, dream girl is Sherilyn Fenn. Remember her in that little catholic school girl outfit in Twin Peaks? Holy shit! She was a very bad girl in need of a spanking. Oops! I made her bottom all red and sore. Oh no... I better give it a little kiss...

Uh... kind of went off on a tangent there. Good thing I didn't really type that. http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/eek.gif

I just saw her in a really bad, straight to cable flick with Jeremy Piven called "Just Write." Sure, it was bad, but she is luminescent. I even will watch her on her cable series, bad as it is. WTF is that show called? I can't remember now. Senior moment.

She has a quality reminiscent of a young Janet Leigh. The beauty mark nest to the eyebrow is killer.

I don't feel like working now...

01-16-2001, 09:23 PM
...Dina Meyer... - that's who the other girl was in StarShip troopers (amazing what Google comes up with.. ;-)...


01-17-2001, 05:04 AM
oh, yeah....Dina Meyer....what an amazon!

guess who's on the cover of the February Maxim?

Denise Richards.

Looking VERY healthy. The girl definitely eats her vitamins.


01-18-2001, 12:24 PM
Oh so that's what you were talking about......on Maxim...

So is Dina Meyer the redhead?


01-18-2001, 02:09 PM
I wish...I have a thing for redheads.....I picked it up when I was living in San Francisco in 1985 and ALMOST nailed this chick named Jill.....man, what a sweet young little unit she was....I let her get away, though, because she was remorseful about some boyfriend she had who lived in another state....and guys, I mean, she was in lingerie, we had been doing the full foreplay thing, and she was primed....and we were in MY BED.

If I had forced the issue even a little, I would have scored.

I was too much the gentleman, I guess. Or maybe not. At times, I feel good about letting her slip away....(at the time, I thought she would come back, raging and ready, but man, I miscalled that one)....at other times, I wish I would have drilled her so hard that she would still remember me with that excellent mixture of fear and lust that leaves even the worst man-hating feminist weak in the knees.


ayway, Dina Meyer is not a formal red head. She's kinda....dirty blond. In Starship Troopers she has this mane of curly hair....and the kind of brutal feminine physique that could kick the shit out of any of us over-40 studs on these forums. She would kill me. And I would love it.


01-19-2001, 02:21 AM
Mag, you have such a way with words... http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

You have the redhead thing too eh? and Dina Meyer is a real dish.....

I must confess, that aside from the great food, and wonderful folks that run my fav restaurant, Saigon 39, the women that frequent that place are a real cut above. Tonight..........uh!!!! Moments from sending a meal to this gal who's friend hadn't shown up, and ironically, she could have passed as Kim Bassinger's 27 y.o. sister. Had to deliberately not look, and right before I told the waiter to give her a meal on me, her friend shows.

God probably saved my ass from certain trouble once again. I've been such a good boy lately it's disgusting.

Oh well. I have my dog, my cat, my business and my macs......for the time being anyway. Yeah, I know it doesn't compare but WTF.

Mag, your package is going out tomorrow......

Ta ta


01-19-2001, 02:32 AM
careful, dave....a low-profile is always best.

what kind of dog do you have? Does he or she play with the kitty? My doggie got to chase a kitty yesterday....she LOVED it...the kitty was NOT amused....but it was still funny. The kitty was like, "enough already, huh?" And my doggie was standing in front of her, head down, butt in the air, tail wagging, "please run some more! I won't bite you, or eat you, or grab you by the neck and shake you from side to side. I just want to chase you."

that cat just arched, hissed, and pawed with a claw. She backed my doggie right up. My doggie barked. It was hilarious. The cat then sauntered away, taking care to rub up against my leg real casual, like she was saying "you're a dog person, huh? Spend some time with me, sweet meat, and you'll never look at a dog again."

sometimes I think about getting a kitty for my doggie to play with, but I worry that they would tear up the house on those rare occasions when I would have to leave them alone. And how do you stop a cat from roaming? No way. My doggie would be jealous. And cats don't like to go for car rides like doggies do. I've never seen a cat stick its head out the window of a car. My doggie LIVES for that.


[This message has been edited by magician (edited 19 January 2001).]

01-20-2001, 03:01 AM
I can't be any more careful than I am already Mag. Hell, when I catch one anymore, I don't know what to do with them. Or at least beyond the "song of the flesh". I've actually gotten rusty, and a bit jaded. It's like, "hey I'm not gonna pretend I'm anyone other than who I am, so if you don't like it, tough shit." I guess that may mean I have a bad attitude. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the company of a nice woman, but (the lords name in vain) there are a lot of women that just want stuff, or don't know what they want out there. HMmmmmmm. I really DO have a bad attitude.......better work on that.

Yep my dog's the coolest. Really affectionate, shepherd mix mutt, about 70lbs, and if you come to the door and he doesn't know you, and he senses I don't know you, he makes one more attempt to claw his way through the thick beveled glas of the front door. Whole damn house shakes. 3am, you even take one step off the sidewalk into the yard, I wake up and the whole house is shaking and he's ready to rock. Kinda nice. He's like the perfect dog, super sweet and affectionate, he even does try to play with the cat, but if he thinks you might be a threat, he wants your flesh and blood as a snack.

Actually, the cat toys with the dog. And there have been times when the dog gets a tad too enthused and I have to tell them to knock it off....they actually listen too. Bhakti (the dog) could for sure dispatch the cat in about 3 seconds. Like you said, a couple of good shakes and that's all.

Guys, go see "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" at the movies. Seriously superfine film. Reminded me of when I saw the Matrix the first time. You know, in the first 5 minutes Trinity kicks some serious ass and you're thinkin "oh yeah....I'm gonna like this". Takes a little longer to get to the first fight scene, but the photography is really beautiful, and so are the asian women, and some of the fight scenes are really cool. Mag, if spud can handle sub-titles its a great dad/son movie. Unfortunately no nudity, but the merits are stellar even without skin. (there is a short and nice wet T-shirt scene though)


01-20-2001, 09:50 AM
dave, you sound like me before I married my wife. She's Italian, from a very conservative family, which is both good and bad. She's been nagging me to go to church with her lately, which is hilarious, as the Church of Rome would rock on its foundations if I crossed a threshold, but I told her I would go if she gave me some sugar, and didn't mind my thinking about it while we were in God's house. She just looked at me like I was devil spawned. What the hell? You have to procreate, and make more good Catholics, right? And if you're using contraception, which technically is a sin, you still have to practice for the Big Event to ensure that all systems are "go," right? I mean, I do, at age 40. Or so I claim. Gotta make sure everything still works. It requires maintenance.

anyway, my advice to you is to seek out a nice girl from Colombia or El Salvador. They are traditional, expect a man to behave like a man, and they actually like to be women, and are not as confused about being a super-CEO chick, a super mom, a super model, and all the other shit women's magazines inflict on American women these days. I mean, even being one of those things would be tough enough, without attempting to be all three.

if I hadn't met my wife when I did, I would certainly have a little Colombian girl here. They know how to be moms to your kids, and they are very family oriented. You just have to be a hard worker. That's it. And they love you for it. It's just the way they are built, and it is a thing of beauty. American girls are great to look at, but they are tough to get along with, these days. The last time I came back from overseas, I couldn't wait to get back. Seriously.

well, gotta take my doggie for a ride now. We have to stick our heads out the window.


01-20-2001, 03:09 PM
sorry, dave, I pulled that last post.

I was born here, but did spend a lot of time down South when I was younger.


01-21-2001, 02:12 AM
Mag man, my indescretion. Pease accept my apologies.

01-21-2001, 05:09 AM
no problem.

remember: always a low-profile!


01-21-2001, 12:17 PM
Good morning....................Noted..........!!!


01-28-2001, 02:19 AM
dave...got that book....thanks!

I like the cover, so far. Nice hot chick with awesome shanks. No matter how serious the subject matter, there is always room for a little leg, IMO.


I have added it to my pile. I am looking forward to it!

01-31-2001, 03:44 PM
Hi Mag............ great!! Been AWL quite a bit lately (as opposed to AWOL).

When you're done with it, just pass it on to someone else who'd enjoy it.

Is who'd even a word?

I hope things are damn swell in your neck of the woods......



01-31-2001, 07:00 PM
looks like it is next on the list....


02-01-2001, 03:36 PM
Cool Mag........I think you'll like it. It doesn't move as fast as much of what you read, and in some ways goes into a bit much detail, but a great story nonetheless, and boy oh boy are there some nice toys in there.

Saw a movie the other day and thought about your post awhile back about the "good old days". It was just starting on DishNetwork PPV so I bought and watched. "Frequency". It reminded me of how wonderful it was to grow up in a tight neighborhood of the 60's, pretty good story too.

I hope you enjoy your book.


02-02-2001, 08:09 AM
was "Frequency" about the music store owner?

02-06-2001, 04:02 AM
No, it's about the guy who connects to his deceased dad on a ShortWave. I scoffed at the trailers to that movie when it came out, but it was really quite good. Man, did it ever get me in the "good old days" spot. Times were SO much simpler then. It has some great twists in it, and is a part crime drama too.

You're thinking of "High Fidelity", which, ironically, I saw 2 nights ago for the first time. Damn that movie made me squirm. Pretty good film. There is a Danish gal in H.Fidel. , Iben Hjejle (eeeben yi-lee, plays Laura) who is just a jewel. Not particularly built, but sooo beautiful and what a voice.........yep, I was smitten.

Heard much from Darin lately?


[This message has been edited by crazyeights (edited 06 February 2001).]

02-06-2001, 06:59 AM
darin...well, I think his uterus aches or something. He's been incommunicado, even though we've been abusing him hard on the forums here lately. I think he's just working hard.

you're right. That was the flick. I think the part I enjoyed the most was those two wanks he had working for him. You don't even want to know how much they remind me of technicians I have had here at various times.


02-07-2001, 03:25 AM
HMmmmmm. I hadn't thought about that. Yeah, those characters were great. And yeah, those personalities remind me of a couple of the guys where I used to work.....programmers........their demeanors seem to run to extremes. But give em pizza, beer and some good tunes and they'll work for days non-stop. Kinda like you Mag........hmmmm.....

Oh yeah, do a google search on Metalstorm ltd in your spare time.

Think 1,000,000 rnds/minute


[This message has been edited by crazyeights (edited 07 February 2001).]

[This message has been edited by crazyeights (edited 07 February 2001).]