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tgt
12-22-2003, 11:30 AM
still just getting NOTHING on my start up ...I posted earlier with details regarding this problem starting when attempting to install new HD. Tried several things PRAM PMU Unplugged everything RAM still the mac acts like everything is fine but it does not remember how to access the Hard Drives...they spin up and are ready but are not being found or even looked for it seems....no CD start up puter is not looking at the CD drive either i think its lost its way ....lets try to help the little fellow HUH....OPEN to all ideas

rwm
12-22-2003, 01:59 PM
Where was your first post? A stock 8500? - we need more info OS, RAM amount/type? What 3rd party added-on's do you use/have connected? PCI cards etc, ANY new hardware? RAM, drives etc. anything different. ID and Termination all set OK?

Backup if you can or need to.

Termination:

1:?All SCSI chains MUST end on either a terminator or a terminated device.
2: No device other than the end device can have termination enabled.
3: No device should have termination power jumpers installed.
4: If you have an 80 to 50 pin non-termination capable adapter that drive MUST NOT be on the end of a SCSI chain since it cannot terminate the chain.

Zapping the PRAM. On Startup hold the (command + option + P + R) keys. Hold them until you hear the first startup "bong" and about 3-4 more "bongs or chimes".

Open Firmware reset -

Hold the Command+Option+O+F keys during startup. This will put you in the Open Firmware Interface. At the end of any text you will get a '>' prompt. At that prompt type:
reset-nvram
Hit Return
set-defaults
Hit Return
reset-all

Randy

tgt
12-22-2003, 05:43 PM
previous poset (mac 8500 no boot *blue screen) from dec 17

What 3rd party added-on's do you use/have connected? PCI cards etc, ANY new hardware? RAM, drives etc. anything different. ID and Termination all set OK

Has powerlogix 400/1M g3 upgrade (problemstill occurs with stock processoras well) running system 9.1

2 128 ram chips have moved all around adn taken both out completely adn put in a 64 and a 32 in all the slots moved all around... no change.

absolutely nothing added on NOW, did have firewire card pulled it, and was attempting to install new 9gb drive...other than that running stock 1 gb drive and a WD 4 GB drive same problem with one or both of them plugged in.

ID and Termination all set OK -- A OKAY

ALSO, does not seem to even recognize the CD Drive, wont boot a cd or even spin it from what i can hear...also replaced scsi cable for kicks, still no change..also new battery installed and no key commands seem to make a difference either....
perplexed I AM

tgt
12-23-2003, 11:49 PM
still perplexed , I am
Any Ideas greatly greatly appreciated...

tgt
01-02-2004, 09:37 AM
still looking for help, assistance, ideas, direction etc.... http://forums.macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

rwm
01-02-2004, 12:51 PM
Did you ZAP the PRAM? Did you do an OF reset? What happened? Randy

TZ
01-02-2004, 01:22 PM
OldWorld Macs with Open Firmware of 2.x or earlier can't reset nvram from Open Firmware. You can set-defaults and reset-all but the first command, reset-nvram, would come back as an "unknown command" probably.

billbo
01-02-2004, 01:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rwm:
Where was your first post? A stock 8500? - we need more info OS, RAM amount/type? What 3rd party added-on's do you use/have connected? PCI cards etc, ANY new hardware? RAM, drives etc. anything different. ID and Termination all set OK?

_Backup if you can or need to._

Termination:

1: All SCSI chains MUST end on either a terminator or a terminated device.
2: No device other than the end device can have termination enabled.
3: No device should have termination power jumpers installed.
4: If you have an 80 to 50 pin non-termination capable adapter that drive MUST NOT be on the end of a SCSI chain since it cannot terminate the chain.

Zapping the PRAM. On Startup hold the (command + option + P + R) keys. Hold them until you hear the first startup "bong" and about 3-4 more "bongs or chimes".

Open Firmware reset -

Hold the Command+Option+O+F keys during startup. This will put you in the Open Firmware Interface. At the end of any text you will get a '&gt;' prompt. At that prompt type:
reset-nvram
Hit Return
set-defaults
Hit Return
reset-all

Randy<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This about says it all.

Another thing you could try is to pull out the PRAM battery overnite then do a OF reset THEN a PRAM reset IF THE Open Firmware Reset DOES NOT WORK.

The problem with the OF reset is that more than likely you're going to get a "Blank/Black Screen" when you startup with command/option/O/F.

If you have a 2nd computer that can hook up to the net you might want to have this page (http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/macppc/faq.html#ofw) handy when resetting OF.

There's also similar info about this @ Apple's Development site. Here is a link to a search of 'Debugging Open Firmware (http://developer.apple.com/cgi-bin/search.pl?&q=Debugging+Open+Firmware&num=10&ie=utf8&oe=utf8&lr=lang_en&simp=1)'

There should be some useful links to Technical Documents (via .html or PDF's) that can also help you out when resetting OF.

Good Luck and keep us informed

Bill

"I made a conscience decision in a semi-conscious state"

billbo
01-02-2004, 01:29 PM
TZ replied as I was hunting down those links for you, so disregard the "reset-nvram" part of Randy's post.

-billbo

Bill

"I made a conscience decision in a semi-conscious state"

rwm
01-02-2004, 01:48 PM
TZ and billbo

Thanks for catching my goof. I thought we fixed this problem on another post. I remember the forum help sugesting that you pull the 2 small RAM chips - what else was done?

tgt
01-09-2004, 10:41 PM
well all,
thanks for your responses
i seem to be wading my way thru computer repair hell...just reformated and setup the pc i was using as something probably viral trojan bs took place ,,,only to find my nework down and then after hours with router patrol and cable modem police im back online and voila you all were kind enough to respond
I am very appreciative!! youll never know!

so, i read thru all your posts followed links and took a crash course in openfirmware wow that s some interesting stuff. then i set up a serial console via another mac 5400 and a mac printer cable and yes i am in open firmware....so cool..no more black screen. So i entered the following
init-nvram RETURN
set-defaults RETURN
reset-all RETURN

and the puter rebooted and came up with the blinking ? mark..(i tell you i have never been so happy to see that ? in my life) funny how what was once painful and nightmareish is now salvation and progress.

Any way puter then attemped to load the floppy i had in there but appearantly it is not a compatible system probably a 6.x or maybe 7.x ??. So i ejected it and clicked the restart prompt and am now at the blinking ? again ....then tried to boot from cd but it not work? so now , i am congratulating your efforts and asking for further feedback...thanks much!

tgt
01-10-2004, 01:33 AM
well this is interesting
As i was getting the blinking ?, ittemtped to boot from cd. However I remembered that the new CD 9.1 mac os i just bought will look for a g3 processor before it can work and boot the system....so i took out the old 604 processor (which i had put in a little while ago as a possible g3 upgrade might be the problem?, attempt at a solution) and replaced it with the pwerlogix g3/400 upgrade. Then I booted with the new 9.1 OS CD in the cd drive and held down the "C" key to see if it would boot from CD and NOW I am back to the Grey screen JUST LIKE BEFORE! HMM! NOW what!

tgt
01-10-2004, 01:37 AM
OK
so pulled the g3 and put back in the 604 and reset the cuda to boot , No put intented, and still stuck on the grey screen.
HMM

billbo
01-10-2004, 09:38 AM
man tgt,

this really sucks for you!

Do you have any 'earlier' MacOS CD's such as 8.1, 8.5 etc...?

If not, you might wanna see if anyone you know still has any or can find/loan one at a local/closest M.U.G.

Bill

"I made a conscience decision in a semi-conscious state"

tgt
01-11-2004, 06:20 PM
I did find a copy of my os 8.6 install disk ...but still it did not work either on the cd spin up prior to my reboot with the G3 processor as i stated before so i think the ? mark was indicating that not only could it not find hard disks it could not find the 8.6 CD in the cd drive either....but now that all seems like the past as i am back to the grey screen and have not been able to get beyond it again.
But I still have hope , its around here somewhere...

billbo
01-11-2004, 10:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tgt:
,,,only to find my nework down and then after hours with router patrol and cable modem police im back online and voila you all were kind enough to respond
I am very appreciative!! youll never know!

so, i read thru all your posts followed links and took a crash course in openfirmware wow that s some interesting stuff. then i set up a serial console via another mac 5400 and a mac printer cable and yes i am in open firmware....so cool..no more black screen. So i entered the following
init-nvram RETURN
set-defaults RETURN
reset-all RETURN

and the puter rebooted and came up with the blinking ? mark..(i tell you i have never been so happy to see that ? in my life) funny how what was once painful and nightmareish is now salvation and progress.

Any way puter then attemped to load the floppy i had in there but appearantly it is not a compatible system probably a 6.x or maybe 7.x ??. So i ejected it and clicked the restart prompt and am now at the blinking ? again ....then tried to boot from cd but it not work? so now , i am congratulating your efforts and asking for further feedback...thanks much!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have you tried booting via Ethernet/AppleTalk?

Bill

"I made a conscience decision in a semi-conscious state"

tgt
01-11-2004, 11:14 PM
No i have not , not sure what you mean by that please explain..am connected via ethernet and cable router...Am open to learning what you mean. Still trying to learn more about open firmware and possible ways to point the puter to my scsi...it still does not reach any scsi devise..everything up to that point is working but then it just hangs...anyone know , other than reseting defaults, how I can see what the boot path is or how to direct it to the scsi device at id 0??

billbo
01-12-2004, 10:15 PM
I'm not gonna lie to you, a lot of this stuff is over my head, but hopefully it will help you out.

SO;

Let's take a look at the Device Tree (http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn/tn1062.html).

Now, printenv and see what the line "boot-device" says (should be about 18-20 lines down).

If it shows nothing, then this could be a problem with the actual SCSI controller, cable, termination, etc....

If it shows something like "/sd@0:0 or /sd@0:3" that at least means you know your SCSI chain is working.

Now, on your 5400, go to apple's site and download Network Access Disk (http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/Utilities/Network_Access_Disk_7.5.sea.bin) and read/download the NAD-ReadMe (http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/Utilities/Network_Access_Disk_7.5.txt) and see if that works.

If not, I've found some more 'tricks', but they seem as, if not more, frustrating then all that you've been through so far.

Good Luck!!!

tgt
01-14-2004, 11:03 PM
thank you so much for putting forth the effort to dig this info up for me.

I greatly appreciate this. And will let you know what comes next.

SMILES

billbo
01-15-2004, 05:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tgt:
thank you so much for putting forth the effort to dig this info up for me.

I greatly appreciate this. And will let you know what comes next.

SMILES<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's no need to thank me.

I've always thought it sucks that there isn't anything like "System Commander" or the like, for the Mac. I have a craving to install as many OS's as my hard drive space allows on my 9500. I would love to have a couple of flavors of LinuxPPC distro's, BSD's, BeOS, (Classic) MacOS and "X" running on my Mac.

I'm just not going to try it on my main Mac.

Should be getting a used G4 after taxes, and then I'll be doing a lot more hunting down info to figure out how to implement my "Fantasy_Mac_App" (catchy name, eh??).

For a guy that's gonna need a Idiots Guide To: Open Firmware, Forth Code, etc, etc....., it's a good thing that I've helped you out on this post!!!

Good Luck!!!

Bill

"I made a conscience decision in a semi-conscious state"