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cyrusdogstar
12-20-2003, 04:10 PM
Hey all, new here http://forums.macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Just looked through ten pages or so of this forum and have not found anything to help me with the problem I am having, so here goes:

I obtained a tricked-out desktop Beige G3 from a friend a little while ago. It has the Rev 1 or A motherboard/ROM (always forget which is which), and the configuration he gave me contained a 500MHz G3 ZIF upgrade, 768 MB of RAM (3x256MB DIMMs), PCI USB card, PCI Ethernet card, PCI ATI Rage 128 Pro 16MB video card, 10GB Maxtor hard drive, stock CD-ROM.

He had used this machine in almost that exact configuration for years in both OS9 and then OSX, and it worked fine. However, when he went home from school to get it for me, he found that it no longer booted--when powered on, everything spun up but there was no POST chime nor did anything appear on the monitor.

He's a pretty darn knowledgeable kid about Macs, and he replaced the processor with the original 266MHZ G3, swapped out the RAM, and the hard drive (even tried with no hard drive and a boot CD-ROM). None of those convinced it to POST. I verified this when Ig ot my hands on it, FYI.

Now, as it turns out (I did not find this out till just a while ago) the Ethernet card had never been used before-just lying around in a bag with other NICs-- and was plunked in when he was preparing it for me. I assume he put it in before turning it on, but I am not positive.

OK. So. That's the state of things when this G3 entered my hands. He and I both figured it was the motherboard which had gone kaput, so I ordered myself ANOTHER beige G3 off eBay. This one is a minitower with (almost) the stock configuration--266MHz G3, 6GB hard drive, Zip drive, stock CD-ROM, 96 MB of RAM (1x64 DIMM and 1x32 SIMM), USB PCI card.

This worked fine when I got it--it had OS9 installed, and while that install was a bit crufty, I reinstalled 9.2.1 from a CD I have, and then it ran like a charm. At this point, other than having a slightly rickety case, this tower ran perfectly, did the POST chime, etc.

Additionally, I booted with the OSX install CD I had, just to see if it would run, and it did. I aborted before anything was installed, however.

Now, my plan was to put in all the parts from the dead desktop G3--the 500MHz ZIF, the RAM, the video and network cards--into this tower, giving myself a beefed-up G3 tower to put OSX on (I planned to put the hard drive from my PC into it, but was going to test with the 6GB drive first to make sure everything worked).

However, this is where the crap started. Like a total idiot, I put 3 of the desktop items into the tower at once--the video and network PCI cards, and all 3 RAM chips--instead of doing them one at a time. On booting...nothing. Acted just like the desktop did--no POST chime, nothing on monitor, just the drives and fans spinning up.

I freaked out and immediately reverted to the original configuration of the tower; on booting, the POST chime was still gone, but I got OS9 booting up, or so it seemed...but then it crashed just after loading the first extension (I think it is the net driver, but I am not sure) with a message about 'error 10'.

So I rebooted, turned off extensions...crashed in the same place (and the first 'extension' symbol still showed up, too, so maybe it's not really an extension per se) but with a blank space where the error message would appear.

Then I tried booting from the OS9 CD...same thing. Flashed the PRAM about 7 times (no chime, but it did reset each time). Still the same thing happens.

Somewhere in there, I get a few Open Firmware messages, about 'CAN'T OPEN:' over and over (and then after 10 seconds, booting into OS9 anyways [and crashing]). This went away after flashing the PRAM, so I assume it's related to that OSX install CD somehow.

ANYWAY. At this point it is clear that one of those items--NIC, video or RAM--is what fried my friend's motherboard and has apparently fried mine as well. So, assuming that having the culprit in the tower again would result in a total non-boot as before, I start putting them in one at a time.

Unfortunately, I got ALL the items in and still get this crashing half-boot each time!

More futzing with different combinations of old and new parts, and the same thing each time. And as always, both the hard drive and CD-rom versions of OS9 display the same crash issue.

And wait! It's not over yet!

I've tried resetting the CUDA switch--on the tower and desktop both (tried it on the desktop as soon as I got it) it appears as a GRAY button just to the left of the PCI slots. I am pretty sure I was pressing it correctly, and held it down for at least 30 seconds. However that did not change a thing http://forums.macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Additionally, I swapped the ROM chips from the desktop and the tower; with the desktop ROM in the tower, I got the same behavior as in the desktop itself--spinups but no POST, and not even the crashing boot of OS9.

Oddly, with the tower ROM in the desktop, I got a nice loud POST chime followed by a glass-crashing sound (which I believe means a bad mobo) and then the same spinup and no OS loading (this with no attached HDD but the OS9 CD in the drive).

So that makes it sound like the desktop ROM has been damanged more than the tower ROM; at this point I thought it meant that the problem was ONLY in the ROMs themselves and I could get away with just replacing the ROM.

However, a third player enters the picture here--I also recently obtained a supposedly working beige G3 motherboard from another person...complete with ROM and processor.

Putting that supposedly good ROM into the tower resulted in...THE SAME BEHAVIOR. Spinup, no POST sound, and the crashing boot of OS9.

This, my friends, is where I am left at: it IS the motherboard after all. It would seem to make sense that the ROM from the tower and the spare motherboard are in working order, and the desktop's did get fried.

Furthermore, it is my *best guess* (and that of the aforementioned desktop owner) that it's the PCI network card that is bad and is somehow shorting out or otherwise hosing whatever motherboards it is plugged into.

BUT. But, but, but. I am not positive--and I'd rather not fry a *3rd* motherboard (the spare, which ideally I'd like to actually make use of) when I still technically have a 1/3rd (1/6th if you count each RAM chip separately) chance of doing so.

So. First off, does anyone have any general ideas for where to go from here, that I haven't already tried? More specifically, can anyone help me figure out which item here might be the culprit (i.e. can bad RAM *ever* hose a system this badly even after being removed? Do PCI cards often do this?)?

I can replace the network and video cards fairly easily, but obviously the RAM would be a tad more expensive. So I'm hoping it's that network card, but I want to ask the experts before I buy anything http://forums.macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Sorry this was so long, but hopefully I remembered everything! And thanks in advance.

--Cyrus

[This message was edited by Cyrus Dogstar on Sat December 20, 2003 PT at 15:36.]

cyrusdogstar
12-20-2003, 09:14 PM
I can't keep my hands off the machines, and I've managed to come up with a completely different problem now! The previous one remains partly unsolved, however.

For a lack of anything else to try I attempted the OSX install CD on the tower again. It worked fine. In fact, it let me install OSX fine! And it *boots OSX fine*...

That's right, the machine which will not successfully start OS9 from CD *OR* hard drive boots OSX fine.

In doing this, I started swapping parts back in; found that two of the 256MB RAM DIMMs only register as 32MB >_< However, I did get the desktop G3 working with the spare motherboard's ROM; at first, I thought it was seeing the bum DIMMs fine, but it turns out I was just confused as to which ones I'd put in :P

I am now going to try some more things (trying the OS9 boot CD in the tower again, with normal and 'bad' RAM; trying to add the video card to the tower and boot OSX [I found that the tower has built-in Ethernet, which I had previously overlooked, so if I am lucky I won't even need the PCI network card]; etc).

Hope you're all enjoying my running monologue http://forums.macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif At least this may be a reference to some who come afterwards...if anything can be learned from this, that is o_O

[This message was edited by Cyrus Dogstar on Sat December 20, 2003 PT at 20:36.]

TZ
12-21-2003, 06:12 AM
I am surprised and disappointed that you couldn't find anything to help.

The Memory Reference/FAQ should have alerted you to look for, download, and run "DIMM First Aid" and to suspect any of the RAM you have. OS X can be a lot of trouble if the RAM isn't up to the highest standard. We swear by Crucial PC100 CAS2 8 ns. 100% reliable. Same 125 MHz SDRAM designed for B&W. Apple recommends "10 ns or faster PC100."

I sometimes think that while mixing ROMs and motherboards seems to work, those very systems have more problems than they would otherwise exhibit.

The sound of breaking glass is RAM test failing on startup.

One of the troubleshooting tips we mention regularly is to reset nvram in Open Firmware. The normal first command is "reset-nvram" but on Beige it is "init-nvram" followed by "set-defaults" and then "reset-all" which will then result in a reboot and boot from bus 0, ID 0, and first user partition if it is bootable ("blessed").

Strip it down.
Use the original ROM
Put in cpu (G3/500)
RAM that will allow you to boot.
Reset Open Firmware.
Run DIMM First Aid.
Add RAM one at a time.

There are three Beige ROM revisions. A/B/C
There are two mini-tower motherboard revisions. 1/2
I am not as familiar with the desktop as MT.

If it is a Rev A, you can't have two drives on one IDE bus.

I would at least order one 256MB SDRAM known to be good if you can and if some of it is in fact bad. As noted a couple days ago (Friday?) RAM can be very sensitive to handling, to static, and be more cautious in the winter. RAM can be damaged but continue to work seemingly well for years and then fail, based on an event long in the past.

just booting and installing OS X will alter the Beige's nvram and place a "modified" ROM on the boot blocks that OS X uses in place of the native ROM. You have to have a good ROM to boot from, but what OS X is doing is use a virtual ROM that adds slave support and makes any Rev A behave as Rev C+ with slave support and improved PCI 2.1+ support.

Some cards require a Rev C. Some cards won't actually work with a Rev C. the Sonnet G4 1.0 GHz won't work with some controllers. So sorting out what works and doesn't - unless the built-in ethernet is fried, in which case, instead of using one of your limited number PCI slots, I'd use one of the other boxes.

I doubt that you needed to buy a Beige just to swap out motherboards, but at least now you should be able to create one good system.

Resetting Open Firmware can be used in place of a cuda reset to rebuild the device tree and clear nvram and pram. However there is a way to drain all power held, remove battery, try starting without a battery or power. There was a thread yesterday on how to and it was mentioned on www.xlr8yourmac.com (http://www.xlr8yourmac.com) - I would head over there and look for the link on the right for Beige and Yosemite G3's.
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/G3-Zone/
That has a wealth of information and FAQs organized for your system. Also, www.everymac.com (http://www.everymac.com) and http://lowendmac.com

cyrusdogstar
12-21-2003, 08:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TZ:
I am surprised and disappointed that you couldn't find anything to help.

The Memory Reference/FAQ should have alerted you to look for, download, and run "DIMM First Aid" and to suspect any of the RAM you have. OS X can be a lot of trouble if the RAM isn't up to the highest standard. We swear by Crucial PC100 CAS2 8 ns. 100% reliable. Same 125 MHz SDRAM designed for B&W. Apple recommends "10 ns or faster PC100."
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, at the moment all these boxes and parts are on my floor and I haven't bothered running an Ethernet cable to them to get any testing software. This is partly because...the bad DIMMs show up as 32MB in OS9 as well! http://forums.macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

And I am not using those bum RAM chips in the machine at present; I've got the original 96 from the tower plus the good 256 giving me 352MB right now, and I may order some more RAM soon, we'll see.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
The sound of breaking glass is RAM test failing on startup.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yea, I know http://forums.macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Should have mentioned that I was an idiot and had tried that first ROM swap with *no* RAM in the desktop. After reading somewhere that the broken-glass sound often means bad RAM, I realized that; with RAM in, it works fine! ^_^

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
One of the troubleshooting tips we mention regularly is to reset nvram in Open Firmware. The normal first command is "reset-nvram" but on Beige it is "init-nvram" followed by "set-defaults" and then "reset-all" which will then result in a reboot and boot from bus 0, ID 0, and first user partition if it is bootable ("blessed").
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I also ran across this in my travels (I did a LOT of surfing yesterday!) and was meaning to mention this as well, but forgot: The Apple keyboard I am using does not let me open OF!! http://forums.macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://forums.macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif And I read somewhere--forget where exactly--that this is a known issue with older AppleDesign keyboards. So, it lets me power the machine, flash PRAM, reboot, etc, but not enter Open Firmware. And I have no newer Apple keyboards anywhere right now.

So OpenFirmware is out of my reach at present; I may be able to snag a newer keyboard at work tomorrow, though, although at this point it doesn't *seem* like I'll need to...?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Strip it down.
Use the original ROM
Put in cpu (G3/500)
RAM that will allow you to boot.
Reset Open Firmware.
Run DIMM First Aid.
Add RAM one at a time.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So are you saying that DIMM First Aid can actually *repair* bum DIMMs? Or is it simply a tester? I'll have to go take a look at it now...^_^

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
If it is a Rev A, you can't have two drives on one IDE bus.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm aware of this http://forums.macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif one reason I am putting my 40GB drive into the tower eventually instead of having two smaller ones. Currently it works fine with its stock 6GB drive, Zip and CD-ROM--the CD-ROM and hard drive work at the same time and all.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
I would at least order one 256MB SDRAM known to be good if you can and if some of it is in fact bad. As noted a couple days ago (Friday?) RAM can be very sensitive to handling, to static, and be more cautious in the winter. RAM can be damaged but continue to work seemingly well for years and then fail, based on an event long in the past.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yea, I've heard as much. Pity there's no real way to tell, heh.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
just booting and installing OS X will alter the Beige's nvram and place a "modified" ROM on the boot blocks that OS X uses in place of the native ROM. You have to have a good ROM to boot from, but what OS X is doing is use a virtual ROM that adds slave support and makes any Rev A behave as Rev C+ with slave support and improved PCI 2.1+ support.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Aha! This is what I was theorizing when explaining my tinkerings to my father last night, it's good to see I was right. And I have heard people saying they've heard rumours similar to what you say about the virtual ROM adding slave support and upping the effective revision letter...great to know that's accurate! http://forums.macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Some cards require a Rev C. Some cards won't actually work with a Rev C. the Sonnet G4 1.0 GHz won't work with some controllers. So sorting out what works and doesn't - unless the built-in ethernet is fried, in which case, instead of using one of your limited number PCI slots, I'd use one of the other boxes.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, for one thing, this is still going to be a psuedo-secondary machine--so long as I can get online, use a USB 2-button wheelmouse, and run one of my VGA monitors, I'll be fine, and that happens to coincide with how many PCI slots these machines have http://forums.macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif (disregarding the additional fact that the onboard network will hopefully function fine, thus leaving me with 1 PCI still open). I do not see myself upgrading this in any way that could not be applied to my PC which still has a PCI or two open.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
I doubt that you needed to buy a Beige just to swap out motherboards, but at least now you should be able to create one good system.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very true! http://forums.macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif However, I also wanted a tower case (limited desk space) and was not sure I was up to wrenching out an entire motherboard array and putting another in. Throw in the fact that I was able to save $75 over what I originally planned to spend, by getting the desktop for a reduced price and buying the tower, and it just made more sense.

And now I'm definitely glad I did so, as I may well end up with two working machines out of all this, and possibly even get some money back if I decide to sell one.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
...
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/G3-Zone/
That has a wealth of information and FAQs organized for your system. Also, http://www.everymac.com and http://lowendmac.com&lt;HR&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt; (http://lowendmac.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>)

I am quite familiar with XLR8YourMac, and LowEndMac has been my guide for a long time now (till recently my secondary desktop has been a PowerMac 7600/132 with 266MGz G3 daughtercard, and LEM helped me tinker with that as well). Everymac is new to me, though, thanks http://forums.macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

At any rate, as things currently stand: The tower has the 352 megs of ram in it, its original USB card and the VGA card in it, and still boots into OSX just fine. Haven't actually tried USING the VGA card with a monitor yet but that's next on my agenda, along with testing the onboard network card. Then I will try swapping the CPUs and at that point I should be done...hopefully.

One question about that, although I will hopefully speak with my friend before hearing back here, is whether I really must use thermal paste when swapping these CPUs. The G3/500 is obviously an upgrade itself, so it has not been sitting in the machine horrendously long, and I have heard on a few ZIF tutorials over at XLR8 and similar sites that you don't *always* need the thermal paste.

But I want to be sure http://forums.macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Thanks for the reply, BTW!! http://forums.macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[This message was edited by Cyrus Dogstar on Sun December 21, 2003 PT at 8:16.]

TZ
12-21-2003, 12:48 PM
When you run DIMM First Aid, it will tell you if the RAM is "OK" or not. but even if it says "okay" also look to be sure it is 10 ns PC100. Some PC66 will work, but not wtih G3/500 probably. PC100 8 ns is best. MIXING memory that is 8 and 10 ns doesn't work, and mixing CAS Latency (CAS2 2-2-2 and something with even 3-2-2 can be messy).

OS X 10.3.2 is actually one of the BEST RAM tests there is! It is very picky.

The original RAM, 32 and 64MB, may work, but not with the 256MB DRAM chips.

Sounds like you actually have it "under control" even if it looks like a mess on the floor and sort of chaotic.

me, I find Panther even on Beige to be great way to surf and stuff. http://forums.macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

cyrusdogstar
12-22-2003, 11:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TZ:
When you run DIMM First Aid, it will tell you if the RAM is "OK" or not. but even if it says "okay" also look to be sure it is 10 ns PC100. Some PC66 will work, but not wtih G3/500 probably. PC100 8 ns is best. MIXING memory that is 8 and 10 ns doesn't work, and mixing CAS Latency (CAS2 2-2-2 and something with even 3-2-2 can be messy).
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unfortunately, OS9 still refuses to work on the minitower, so I don't have Classic running under Jaguar and hence cannot run DIMM First Aid http://forums.macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif However, as I think I might have mentioned, all 3 of those 256MB DIMMS were operating fine in the desktop until I got my hands on it, so I know they're the correct type and all (again, the seller of the desktop is a huge Mac gearhead http://forums.macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif).

In terms of looking for new RAM to buy, yea, I'll be keeping in mind the 10ns/PC100 rule http://forums.macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I am counseled by other geek friends to go to Crucial, as they have lots of great guarantees related to their RAM and have a 'system finder' on their site to help you select the right kind. Haven't looked at it yet, though http://forums.macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
OS X 10.3.2 is actually one of the BEST RAM tests there is! It is very picky.

The original RAM, 32 and 64MB, may work, but not with the 256MB DRAM chips.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, that's strange...right now it's running 10.2.8 fine with the 32+64+256. Were you meaning that *Panther* only would not work with them, or should it not be working at all with that setup? o_O

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Sounds like you actually have it "under control" even if it looks like a mess on the floor and sort of chaotic.

me, I find Panther even on Beige to be great way to surf and stuff. http://forums.macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yea, I'm hoping to get it installed...I tried last night using XPostFacto but on reboot got the white screen w/ unmoving prompt, and I had to flash the PRAM to get it to boot back into 10.2 (which appeared to still be fine afterwards).

I've got some ideas to see what I can do about that--last I tried, the desktop will boot into OS9 just fine from the 9.2.1 CD (with a good ROM in it) so I'll see if *that* can take Panther; if it does then I know it's something with the ROM or motherboard on the tower and will replace it with the backups I have. Whoo!

Thanks again for the tips http://forums.macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

TZ
12-22-2003, 12:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>OS X 10.3.2 is actually one of the BEST RAM tests there is! It is very picky.

The original RAM, 32 and 64MB, may work, but not with the 256MB DRAM chips.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Well, that's strange...right now it's running 10.2.8 fine with the 32+64+256. Were you meaning that *Panther* only would not work with them, or should it not be working at all with that setup?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OS X (PB) triggered a flurry of RAM upgrades, and the infamous "BAD RAM" label. All the RAM gets used for caching and such things. Now, with the advent of RAM, memory that 'worked' fine for years is showing new signs of "BAD RAM" as new compression of cached memory, journaling, and perhaps new stress on memory hits users.

What isn't clear is whose, or what RAM, are whether it is SDR or DDR or SDRAM - or all DRAM chips. But it is clear that Panther (10.3) is the hardest yet.

Most of the 32 and 64MB SDRAM was from 1999 or earlier should have been 10 ns - there were a few 12 ns chips out there. Trouble was, 64MB SDRAM was being used in B&W systems, PC100 10 ns which is fine for Beige, is death to B&W. You might get a crash a day (as I did, usually surfing the web, and blaming Microsoft) and think it was software or a damaged pref file (Internet Preferences, which was true) but the actual cause was "slow RAM."

Add in a G4 or faster G3 (anything beyond 333 MHz in fact) and you reach the limits of timing issues.

You are lucky that it was a Mac fanatic. I don't know many but the one's I do know are here and on the Apple Discussions educating folks about RAM (but then, there are forums in places I've never been or know exist out there, too http://forums.macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://forums.macgurus.com/images/hr.gif

OS 9 Classic condrum.

Gotta get a small 2GB partition with 9.2.1 or at least 9.1 out there. XPF 3.0a10 can run in OS X, but there will be times possibly when it needs to be run in OS 9. One of which, you can't boot from the Install CD or any other CD, whether a trip to OS 9.

Classic can't talk to hardware, so you need to use OS 9 to run DIMM First Aid.

Usually the rule is you have to boot once from a system folder to select it or use it for Classic. Not totally true.

You can go to System Preferences in OS X, Classic control panel, let it find a system folder with 9.1+, select it, then go to Startup Disk control Panel (still in Jaguar) and it should be available to select.

note: older disk drives seem to have more trouble saving startup disk preferences. Also, ATA disks save changes better than SCSI (which would seem to forget or not show the next time you launch or look in OS X's Startup Disk.

I would launch Classic once anyway, and let it update it. I also used the version of Startup Disk cp (for OS 9, 9.2.4 I think) found on the Jaguar CD in Utilities. I never had trouble, some people had a lot of trouble, and ended up using System Disk 3.3.1 or other, older version of 2.2.1 to try. As I said, a new disk drive helped, as did the "init-nvram" command in OF. And I never changed my system, left it as a REV A because it was never trouble to install Jaguar.

You shouldn't ever need to use XPostFacto on Beige until you try to install Panther. But many people did, due to trouble they had.

And, XPF 3.0 now makes it relatively easy to install and update as long as there is a video card in there, can't be done without PCI video.

cyrusdogstar
12-26-2003, 07:08 PM
Well, the system is running pretty happily now! http://forums.macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Managed the final bit of hardware work--swapped in the 500MHz G3 upgrade which seems to have gone without a hitch. And boy does it make a world of difference! Very happy now.

Only downside is that I never did get Panther to work--I may try once more now that I have a different hard drive and processor in, but I doubt that'll fix anything. Still, I have tentative plans to get myself a B&W and sell the host of older Macs I have lying around; if I can get my hands on a good enough B&W afterwards, I can swap out some of the tower parts and then sell it as well http://forums.macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif