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View Full Version : Kernel Panic from Mouse/Keyboard ?????



donut
08-11-2003, 01:07 PM
Dear Mac Friends,

I am concerned about one of my macs, A dual 450/G4, recently it got some static shock and i had to have the logic board replaced by Tekserve in NYC, It is under warranty, the whole board had to be replaced to fix my toasted firewire ports, I had been running OSX on here flawlessly before then for months
and after the repair, (with a refurbished apple cert. board) It ran fine until about 2 weeks ago, it has been a constant Kernel Panic nightmare. I have done everything imaginable, tested RAM (removed and added back) I re-initialized the drives, and rebuilt, I ran the hardware test, numerous times.. Disk Warrior,
Repair Permissions, Safe boot, fsck...etc
and It is still panic/crashing...

Sometimes it just freezes or hangs, but mostly i get the grey screen with restart message. I have certainly learned a lot about troubleshooting OSX on this feat and have done everything but solve my problem. Sometimes it does not crash, and ill just leave it on, I WANT to leave it on , but id give it a check in the middle of the night when i pee.. and It has Always crashed,
and usually not too much after 1pm, just as I finish working. It happens with Final Cut running it happens with NOTHING running... so it is very hard for me to tell what its all about... SO since my refurbished logic board is under warranty, I just took it back in to be tested. The MAc pros at Tekserve told me that its pretty unlikely that my original keyboard and Kensington mouse are causing these kernel panics. Is it possible that they are? But I ran flawlessly with this set up for about 9 months with no prob,.. really the trouble started a few weeks AFTER the logic board was replaced. so they tested it for only 5 minutes when i was there, and it didnt crash, I feared this would happen, they offered to monitor it overnight for a few days, which i certainly agreed to, I really hope it crashes there and we can figure it out
OR maybe someone here can shed light on
my Keyboard mouse thought, since afterall these are USB devices

I am welcome to any other troubleshooting techniques or thoughts.. I'm just stumped and worried that they will call me back and say everything is fine...

Respectfully
Jason a Mac addict in Astoria, NYC

kaye
08-12-2003, 05:35 PM
Welcome Jason,

Have you tried another keyboard/mouse? Just a plain old Apple USB keyboard or something else? Apple mouse or something else?

Mouse plugged into the keyboard and keyboard plugged into the onboard USB port and not a USB PCI card or USB hub? Tried the other USB port? Questions, questions... k

TZ
08-13-2003, 05:32 AM
One of the best 'tests' of RAM is to run DIMM First Aid (check versiontacker) to know whether your RAM is up to spec. It can also fix some problems if the timing code is missing - though that is much rarer now than 3 yrs ago.

I'd invest in a cheap but good USB PCI card. 10.2.5 broke a lot of USB devices that aren't built to spec, 10.2.6 added back support, but its still an issue with Jaguar and USB. www.macintouch.com (http://www.macintouch.com) has a USB Report worth reading. It use to be that self-powered USB devices could affect RAM chips also if there was too much juice going to the device at startup.

donut
08-13-2003, 07:30 AM
hey, thanks for the feedback, to let you know i already have a PCI usb card, i have experienced these problems with it in or out,
I did just run the DIMM first aid, and all checked out ok, I wont be ableto test another keyboard or mouse for another day or so but here are a few more hunches; hope you can bare with me...

I got the unit back from the mac store, they said the logic board is fine, i have run teh hardware test a lot, all is fine, i asked the mac people if they just let the computer run over night on its own to watch it crash, they said no, they had it running overnight doing extended diagnostics, could their testing have just been avoiding the whole problem ? I have no idea what they really did

sometimes when i start up and my desktop comes alive my cursor (mouse) wont move, it is plugged into the USB on the keyboard, i have tried plugging the keyboard and mouse into all of the USB ports (4 two original and 2 PCI)
and the same thing happens, but if i unplug the mouse and plug it back in it works

is there something about this that sheds any light? i know when you first start up the mouse light pulses, is the computer checking the mouse, or checking the USB devices as part of the startup process, and then possibly becasue my mouse may eb damaged it is no longer operable by the time the deskto appears

I am trying to rule out everything, i rebuilt again last night and ONLY have Jag on the machine, no other apps, SO hopefully I have outruled software, the mac store outruled refurbished logic board, DIMM first aid checks out the RAM, and I believe my hard drives checked out fine with Dissk Utility and
disk warrior and fsck,

so I am just left with the kernel panic and
the mouse/keyboard.. have you ever heard of this, i find it so strikingly unusual, i mean everything was working fine, i just cant believe the mouse/keyboard can cause such a big event, when the unit is idle i knw OS X does unix file stuff, do you think this includes mouse/keyboard checks ? and since i dont have an extra around, should i check to see if there are these panics with NO mouse or kbd plugged in? will the machine freak becasue it expects to have a mouse/keyboard

ill be around, Thanks

TZ
08-13-2003, 09:24 AM
I had to replace my MS Intellimouse Optical once due to a bad built-in connector.

I also was using Dr Bott's powerkey to allow me to startup w/o using the front button. (one reason I still like the ADB kb on B&W).

Some USB 2.0 PCI cards had trouble according to that report. Some Belkin units according to forum members.

I would say your keyboard could easily be a problem. Or the mouse. When 10.2.5 acted up, I bought a new Apple Pro k/b (white, very nice) and MS optical, just to help test etc, along with USB card (OrangeMicro).

I would run the cron scripts manually using Cocktail for now.

You should clone your system. No need to keep reinstalling etc. It is good to have what I call a pristine clean Apple-only install, clone that, then add your own stuff.

Even if DIMM First Aid says "okay" I go by the numbers, too. In my case, mixing different types and speeds don't equal stable or k/p free system, becasue the B&W can't read the SPD code on those RAM chips, they should all be identical, that means Crucial, and buy them together if possible.

Only Drive Setup or maybe TTPro (or Norton's media check) will test each block, something that DU or DW won't. And just becaue those dont' see a problem doesn't mean there isn't one, they don't 'trace' a file through every fragment from beginning to end.

When I get a new drive, I load it with files 'to the brim' (85% full) and give it a total workout to write to every sector and block. the same with memory, opening and running as much as possible. The Console can help pinpoint what address a k/p occurs at.

And I suppose a USB cable could be a problem as well.

kaye
08-13-2003, 04:04 PM
One more thought, try plugging the keyboard into one of the computer USB ports and the mouse into the other, neither into the PCI card. Do both the keyboard and mouse work OK in this configuration? k