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rebecca
08-15-2001, 04:51 PM
Well, not quite. But it sure appeared to have.

I was running DW from a floppy, while operating from my backup 1GB stock hard drive in my 7600 w/XLR8 466 MachCarrier. I wanted to check my main drive - 18GB Seagate N with 4 partitions: Operating System/Apps + 3 others.

A disk error occured first, and DW quit. I restarted, then tried again. I hit the Rebuild Option for my OS/Apps partition, and started it up. Halfway thru it stopped to tell me that I had a problem on one of my other partitions and that data may have been lost. I looked on my desktop and my two main partitions had disappeared from the desktop! The other two were still there. However, when I went into Drive Setup to see what it showed, it didn't show that drive at all. It was as if it didn't exist.

First I panicked, then I decided to restart. It automatically restarted to the Norton CD, and on the desktop were all my harddrive icons. I ran all the tests, which came out fine. Then I switched back to my main drive and started up. All seems fine now.

This was a bit scary, to say the least. Anyone have any ideas on what might have gone wrong, and how to avoid this from happening in the past? Im wondering if the DW floppy I have is corrupted and I should just make a clean copy.

Thanks in advance to anyone who answers.

Rebecca

crazyeights
08-15-2001, 09:04 PM
Rebecca, which System are you running, and which version of DiskWarrior? It is currently in release 2.1 I think.

I would just copy DiskWarrior onto each of your hard drives. Running from a floppy sounds scary. If you put it on your 1GB hard drive, and you can boot from it and just point it at the 18GB and run it. Put it on your 18GB, and you can boot from the 18GB and just point it at the 1GB.

But make sure you have the right version of DiskWarrior for the version of the System you're running.

c8

[This message has been edited by crazyeights (edited 15 August 2001).]

rebecca
08-15-2001, 09:40 PM
Crazy8s - thanks for the reply.

I am running OS 9.0.4 on both volumes. I am using Disk Warrior 2.1. I thought about doing what you suggested, putting a copy on each disk, so that is what I will do. Sounds reasonable.

kaye
08-15-2001, 10:21 PM
I do that with DiskWarrior and Norton Utilities. k

lasvegas
08-16-2001, 12:46 AM
Yes. It's a real good bet your "disk error" was from the floppy. Even a (hmph!) Zip would be safer. BTW: The vanished drive partitions are normal. DW and NU unmount the drives for some of their tests.

rebecca
08-16-2001, 11:32 AM
Well, Im glad to hear that it is a somewhat "normal" occurence to have things disappear when doing the tests. I really thought something terrible had happened.

rebecca
10-12-2001, 07:32 PM
I am reviving this topic because it has happened again, but a bit differently.

I have DW 2.1 installed (not the extension, however) on both of my drives running 9.0.4. I first ran DW from my 2nd drive to check the main drive. It quit right after I hit Rebuild to confirm rebuilding the directories. I restarted, tried it again, and this time it quit (Type 11) and a dialog box came up with "A disk malfunciton occured while attempting to write to the disk OS/Apps" (the first partition on the drive). A bomb message came up with "Control Strip Extension". Then a yellow window came up and said that one of my other volumes may have lost data and I should rebuild or repair (something like that). 3 of my partition icons were missing from the desktop, and they didn't show up under NDD or when I scanned the bus.

I restarted to the same drive (since I couldn't switch to my main drive with nothing showing up in the CPs). Miraculously, all the drives showed up. I then ran NDD on all of them, with only minor problems showing. I switched drives to run DW on the main drive. When I ran DW from that drive, everything went fine - no problems or bombs. I switched disks again, restarted, and tried running DW again from Drive 2 to scan Drive 1. Same problem occured - disks disappeared and the dialog boxes again (except for the Control Strip one). Ok, restarted again, and then decided to reinstall DW from a good copy. Ran it again with the same problems.

So, now I am not sure what to do next. DW runs fine from one drive, but not from the next. My extension folder on both drives are nearly identical, so if you think that it could be an extension conflict I could test for that fairly easily. (Maybe I should have done that before posting).

My second drive is the original Quantum 1gb that came with the 7600/132. Could it be going bad?

Thanks for any suggestions.

Rebecca

kaye
10-13-2001, 01:03 AM
Have you tried booting from the DiskWarrior CD? I do the same routine you do but if you are having problems with that method I would do the bootable CD method. Then, if you have problems, I would begin to suspect one of the drives. You might want to run Norton Disk Doctor to check for bad blocks. k

dragon_x
10-13-2001, 01:56 PM
The only time I ever had DW crash on me was when I used an outdated version... and it was on an unimportant drive anyway so it was not a big deal.

BACKUP BACKUP and if in doubt BACKUP AGAIN http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Floppies sux - they are small, slow, old and outdated. The drives tend to do nothing but collect dust and dust bunnies. Stray magnets and spilt beer can kill them and they can die on their own all too often.

If one of your partitions gets FUBARd, and you have a DW (or other) emergency boot folder on the drive, the Mac will eventually find the first bootable partition and you can quickly recover OR determine if it is a hardware issue.

Making a boot disk for a Windows box is annoying...

While we are on the subject - if DW 2.1 certified for 9.2?
- I think I am going to upgrade this week.


------------------
To boldly go where no english professor has gone before! -)

[This message has been edited by dragon_x (edited 13 October 2001).]

rebecca
10-13-2001, 02:51 PM
Kaye - Unfortunately I do not have DW on the CD. I opted for the downloadable version. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Maybe I can get them to send me the CD for a nominal fee. How do I use NDD to scan for bad blocks? I just ran it on all my drives/partitions and everything is cool. Is there another aspect of NUM that checks for bad blocks?

I tried to run DW again with just the Mac OS basic extension set. I got the same problem, but I noticed that after the "disk malfunction" message it said to try to rebuild the drive again. When I tried to do this DW said "Directory cannot be rebuilt because of a problem communicating with this disk (,)." The disk was named "unknown" in the DW window.

I decided to test DW on the second drive with extensions off. I got a DW quit, Type 2.

I also started to run Integrity to test the drives, which I've never used, but quit when I saw that it should be run when you have lots of time - it went on-and-on. How long does it take to run, if anyone knows?

I will be away from home most of the day, so I will not be checking back until late tonight for any replies. I think Monday I will try to contact Allsoft to see if they can help me, if I haven't figured things out by then.

Thanks!
Rebecca

trout2
10-13-2001, 03:47 PM
Hi RebeccaKW,
This is a bit off topic, but I am curious about your machine. I'm fairly new to Mac's and have a 7500 with a 200MHz 604e. I've recently acquired a Pentium 1 PC mainly just to test some peripherals I'd acquired here and there, before I sell them. It has a 166MHz processor, and I am dismayed to find that it is faster on the internet than my Mac, even though the Mac uses a 56K modem, and the PC has a 33K one! Geesh, kind of shakes my faith in Mac's (almost - the Mac interface seems SO much more friendly). I'd been thinking of upgrading via XLR8, but am wondering if it will actually make a significant difference. Your machine sounds impressive, and I'm curious as to what sort of work you do on it. I'd appreciate any thoughts/comments you might have to offer (or anyone else, for that matter :-))
TIA, Trout

tm311
10-13-2001, 06:01 PM
Rebecca.....you can try trashing your DW preferences and application....everthing except the installer and re-installing DW from your download....and don't forget that you can make a boot disk and include DW on it...i have had similar problems to what you are going through,,,,booting off the CD i made helped me break the cycle.

rebecca
10-13-2001, 08:40 PM
tm - If by "making a boot disk" you mean burning a CD, I can't do that because I don't have a CD burner. I could make a Zip disk if that would work... I will try again to trash the DW preferences before I reinstall. BTW, I never really installed, because I was told not to install the extension. I just copied the folder after I had unzipped it. But, this couldn't be the problem, because it works on my main drive.

trout2 - Geesh! I am hardly an expert on my own machine. I did a major upgrade, yes, but I was helped every step of the way (and I mean EVERY) by the many generous, patient, and kind people on this forum. I am in graphic design, so I really needed to upgrade, as I was dead in the water with what I had. I ended up adding the XLR8 processor (which I highly recommend), a new hard drive hosted by a Miles Bluenote, an ATI Rage Orion 128 video card, and more RAM (Ive now got 335mb). To tell you the truth, if I was thinking of doing it now (and its only 6 months later), with the prices and speeds of the new Macs, I may have just bought a new one.

If you really want to get a crash course on what you can do to your 7600, you should check out the thread I posted under. Start on page 6 and work your way up to page 1. Actually, pages 6-4 probably have all the info you would need. Here's the link:
http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/Forum21/HTML/000076.html

And one last thing: Macs RULE!

Rebecca

tm311
10-13-2001, 09:01 PM
Yes you can make a bootable zip, just copy the system folder from one of your OS cd's or NU...and copy your version of disk warrior on it....i have had trouble adding USB support to any of my boot disks, so if you are using a scroll mouse make sure you have an old apple mouse handy.

As for your "maybe i might have bought a new machine".....try and think of it like this...by putting a few hundred dollars into your beige....you allowed yourself aat least another year and that allows you to get an even BETTER g4 or g5 next year....... http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

rebecca
10-14-2001, 12:04 AM
tim - ok, I will make that bootable Zip disk tomorrow and see if I can figure this thing out. BTW, DW didn't make a preference file - maybe that's because I didn't install the extension?

Oh, Im not sorry I upgraded my 7600 at the time I did it. But if it was NOW that I was going into it, Im not sure I still would do the same thing. But, you're right - I probably bought some time so my next machine will be much better than what I could get now. So, all in all, Im glad my timing was what it was. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

TZ
10-14-2001, 10:52 AM
Rebecca,


You can actually create a RAM disk, boot from any CD, run Disk First Aid on the RAM Disk, which will cause it to mount and be available, copy program(s) etc to that. TechTool Pro, Norton, Disk Warrier, etc.

I've never had what you see. If sounds like it could also be cable, termination etc. but in any event I'd backup most current changes (some programs are good at that), and in any event, it really really helps (important) to have two backups - in case something happens (copy bad data, crash during backup etc. - if it can happen... it will).

You don't have DW preference to worry about. If you have zip and can boot from CD, use Mac OS CD and put your tools (Drive Setup, DFA, DW) on zip. If you use Norton.... avoid NDD 4/5 - they can trash a hard drive and report Major errors when there are none. Norton 6.0.2 is the most current and seems like symantec did their homework... or would loss their Mac customers totally. It was that bad.

I'm sure you are not running 9.2.1 which there is an abundance of reports of data corruption. It might be linked to Drive Setup, it may be the way 9.2 handles the wake from sleep and energy conservation, but it seems like a risky OS right now.

Sometimes, to backup a bad drive, I treat it like an onion. One layer at a time. Grab the most current changes, the most critical files, move them to backup, then trash those and look for the next. Cross-linked files can create a mess.

I feel like my system is safer using SoftRAID, using a mirror volume for critical data, stripped for large, fast volume. And a couple disk drives for backups: daily, weekly, monthly. An 18GB disk drive $200 isn't that much more than a Jaz 2GB drive. Faster, more reliable though.

I trust Disk Warrior and it has saved me a number of times. Then again, lately I've also seen NDD 6.02 find and fix something Apple & DW didn't.

Gregory

rebecca
10-14-2001, 06:55 PM
I made my bootable Zip Disk today, and was able to run DW successfully. At least now I have a sure-fire method to test both of my drives. But, I still want to figure out what is wrong with DW on my back-up drive. Maybe I should just re-install the system software for starters.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You can actually create a RAM disk, boot from any CD, run Disk First Aid on the RAM Disk, which will cause it to mount and be available, copy program(s) etc to that. TechTool Pro, Norton, Disk Warrier, etc.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Never thought to do that. I guess I could play with this idea a bit.

I backup pretty frequently - in fact I keep at least 3 copies, so the worst that would happen is I'd have to reinstall all my software. Quark backs up files automatically, which is good because it's my main program.

I use Norton 6.0 and OS 9.0.4.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Cross-linked files can create a mess.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I had this happen to my main drive when I ran a really old version of MacLink Plus. What a mess to redo that!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I feel like my system is safer using SoftRAID, using a mirror volume for critical data, stripped for large, fast volume. And a couple disk drives for backups: daily, weekly, monthly. An 18GB disk drive $200 isn't that much more than a Jaz 2GB drive. Faster, more reliable though.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't use RAID - don't even really know what it is! I have an 18GB Seagate Drive for my main drive and use the old Quantum 1GB for backup, but that is rapidly outliving it's usefulness. My next purchase may be a larger backup drive, if I can find a used, but still workable 4-9GB Seagate Drive on eBay. (!!)

Thanks for all the help, everyone! I hope to figure the rest out on my own. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


[This message has been edited by RebeccaKW (edited 14 October 2001).]

TZ
10-15-2001, 09:20 AM
Just make sure you are running AutoPurge on startup to move temp files to the trash. They are invisible and take up a lot of disk space. That bug doesn't exist in 9.1 but can create lost disk space and other problems, even if you quit and shutdown/restart normally they don't get deleted. By 6.0 I hope you have the 6.02 and other updates to NUM/SD.

18GB new drives are in the $200 range - IBM Ultrastar 36LZX is even less. Newer drives besides being faster, cheaper are also quieter and create less heat.

Gregory