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gmidd
08-17-2001, 06:52 AM
Boy, ya really don't think much of it ever happenin' to ya 'til it does!

I finally had my first near death exp..
Last week I was just sort of merrily in the process of reformatting my two small, slow, and old internal ata's (1.5 gb each) in my b&w, as well as generally shuffling things around, gettin' ready ta do some serious backups onto to my fw's...
Well, I was in HDST and thought since, well, my fw's were bein' driven by it, why not have it take over the ata's as well..
So I dragged one of 'em over into the take over window; forget which one by now (actually, wished I'd remembered)
Ok so it did its thing -giving me the message 'successful take over'
Then...

Freeze city-
Tried to command-option-escape; nothin'-
Tried a force quit on HDST; got a system bomb with cursur lock also.
I thought ok, I screwed up; the ata didn't want to be run by HDST- I'll just force restart and that'll clear things up like it always does..Maybe just have to update driver on it with Drive Setup-
So fine, start up screen comes up, the usual...'starting up..
The 'starting up...' tube gets about 3/8 going then stops..
I wait- and I wait: nothin'
So I push restart button again- same exact behavior.
By now I'm thinkin' "Oh Boy, my first real serious screwup"
So then I thought ok, I'll try startin'up from NDD cd (I had to pinhole the cd tray open)
NDD gets loaded but no cd icon or folder..
Now I'm thinkin I'm in DEEP dudu! I can't even run an emergency disk.

By now I have visions of dragging the Yose to the repair shop with tail firmly tucked between legs..or calling Apple( Ugh!)
So finally after I settled down a bit, I conjectured I just crashed my hard drive. Then I got to thinkin....- (meanwhile, I'm desperately searching the handbooks and the forum-from my daughter's machine- for info on what to do in this case)

It probably isn't my startup drive (OEM 6 gb Maxtor)- because the screen appearance of everything looks right and it begins to start in the normal fashion. It must be one of two small ata's...

OK so I yanked the little bastards (I don't yet have DW which I understand could maybe rebuild their directories starting from DW cd)
I crossed my fingers and voila! She started up just fine. I then restarted from NDD cd and ran a full scan on everything, then did same with DFA with minor repairs found and fixed by both. Needless to say, I immediately did a drag copy of everything onto my fw, and finished up my Retrospect setup.

I'll probably just leave those drives out for now since I'm probably going to do a scsi thing and they were both pieces of crap anyway.
I'm lucky here by the skin of my teeth 'cause nothing was yet backed up onto the fw's. If it had been my startup drive..I shudder to think... -gm

gmidd
08-17-2001, 09:16 AM
BTW- my guess is driver conflict caused crash- should I put the 2 ata's back in the chain and seeif I can re-format the offending unit with drive setup? Or will I have no luck booting as before?-g

lasvegas
08-17-2001, 07:12 PM
gmidd: Install the drives, but leave the power cable disconnected. Start up the computer and after the startup is complete, carefully connect the power connectors. This will allow you to format those drives without having mounted them. Do not (I repeat! DO NOT!) disconnect or connect the ATA cables with the computer running.

gmidd
08-17-2001, 11:21 PM
ok lasvegas, as they say, there's a first time for everthing...
As a newb, I have to admit I've never had the case open and mac running at the same time-
Just to be sure what you're saying and a coupla questions:

1. With case open and hd's in their sleds, I power up.
2. After startup is complete, I connect the power cables to each drive, but not the ribbon cables, correct?
3. I format drives with apple drive setup or could I instead use HDST? Will either of these ute's list the drives? How will I 'see' these drives to format them?
4. Assuming successful formatting, power down the rig, then attach ribbon cables, then close case and restart.

Thanks lv

crazyeights
08-17-2001, 11:35 PM
gmidd.........WAIT!

Re-read las vegas's advice. I believe he is ONLY talking about the power cable/molex.

If I read his suggestion right, he was, just for the sake of covering all bases, cautioning you AGAINST connecting/disconnecting the I/O ribbon while the machine is on.

Do NOT mess with the ATA ribbon while powered up. All he seems to be suggesting is that you remove power, boot the machine, carefully re-apply power, and then use your drive utility to do your maintenance/repair on the dis-mounted drives. Once you're squared away you can mount the drives, or restart, and it should be business as usual.

Las vegas, am I grockin this right?

c8


[This message has been edited by crazyeights (edited 17 August 2001).]

gmidd
08-18-2001, 12:15 AM
If I get you both right:
1. power off G3 and unplug from strip
2. open case, ground myself on power supply, then put drives back in but do not connect ATA ribbon connectors or power wires to hd's
3. leave case open, plug G3 back into strip, then start up
4. after completion of startup, connect power wires to drives and update drivers
5. power down, unplug computer, connect ATA ribbon connectors to hd's
6. close case, plug in computer, then startup

Anything I should avoid touching- besides mobo, ram, and pci's- while working inside the running G3?-g

[This message has been edited by gmidd (edited 18 August 2001).]



[This message has been edited by crazyeights (edited 18 August 2001).]

M.Brane
08-18-2001, 01:14 AM
" Install the drives, but leave the power cable disconnected."

To me that says install the drives, hook up the ribbon cable, boot up then plug in the power cable. Good thing it's not the power then the ribbon. That could be a real bitch.

------------------
I started out with nothing.
I still have most of it left!

crazyeights
08-18-2001, 01:28 AM
http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Yes. Thanks M.Brane that's it exactly.

"Install the drives, but leave the power cables disconnected."

Then start the machine.

NOW connect the power cords to the drives. (The drives should now spin up, and the ATA ribbons are ALREADY connected. You connected them when you installed the drives)

Now do your disk maintenance/repairs.

Now you're done!!!!!!

Turn off the machine, and close up the case.

You can now go have a beer, or reboot your machine, or go to a wedding, run around naked in the rain......it's up to you, man. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Best,

c8


[This message has been edited by crazyeights (edited 18 August 2001).]

crazyeights
08-18-2001, 01:49 AM
Gmidd,

p.s., I nuked one of my post's in this thread, and I killed a line from your post. (I said I was murky, and you said no, you were.....etc....)

I was just trying out my edit pref's. I've never used them before. So, you didn't hallucinate posting that. Hmmmmmm......but I COULD be hallucinating now......I think I'd better go to bed now.

Best,

Dave

[This message has been edited by crazyeights (edited 18 August 2001).]

gmidd
08-18-2001, 07:44 PM
Well I almost fixed it. In fact, I had it in my grasp and let it slip away..
Here's the story:
shut down machine, turned off strip, unplugged machine, opened it up, installed hd (only one of 'em- the other I had in the zip bay and didn't want to try connecting drive power wire in those tight confines)
then connected ribbon to hd, plugged in machine, turned on strip, booted machine..

Waited for 5 minutes to make sure startup was complete because monitor woudn't go on. Then I plugged power wire to hd back in and voila, monitor came on, hd spun up and start-up continued and completed.

Opened drive setup and here's where I feel like a complete dorfus:
selected unmounted disk and then 'mount volume' instead of initializing it first

Well drive setup coudn't do it, little circle just kept spinning so I force quit drive setup, that froze machine..had to force shut down from strip..then I unplugged everything and redid first procedure (after running NDD), but with no luck getting through startup; tried this whole routine several times; no luck, though zapping pram seemed to help at one point...

Obviously I had it in my grasp..

What do you think I should try next? -g

crazyeights
08-19-2001, 04:12 AM
Unplug the drive power cable again, bring the machine to a full boot again, put a bootable system installer CD in the machine and then, using the "startup disk" control panel, select the CD as the start-up disk, reboot (which should boot you off the CD)......or use command C, if that'll work.....

Now plug the power connector back into the ATA drive, at which time it should spinup yet remain unmounted....

Now use Disk Setup to reformat the drive and install a fresh driver to the drive(s).

Good luck on your mission.

c8

lasvegas
08-19-2001, 04:32 AM
No video? Hmmm....

1) Put a bootable CD in the drive!

2) Connect just the IDE cable to the drive leaving the power disconnected. If this is the only drive on the cable, be sure it's jumpered as MASTER.

3) Start the computer and wait for the CD to finish booting (You should have video!)

4) Carefully connect the power to the drive and wait for it to spin up.

5) Run Drive Setup (Located in the Utilities folder of the CD.

6) DO NOT MOUNT THE DRIVE! Instead, select the unmounted drive and then select Update Driver in the Functions menu.

7) If all went well, the drive will mount after the new driver is writen. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[This message has been edited by lasvegas (edited 19 August 2001).]

gmidd
08-19-2001, 09:04 AM
Mission accomplished..it just needed to be reassured with a bootable cd to finish startup- using current startup disk! Conflict Catcher may have had an influence here, perhaps complicating startup process...

Boy, it sure is a fine site, watchin' the light show on the mobo as she does her thang!

Thank y'll for the step-by-step guidance; as usual, I learned a lot and will be better prepared for the next one.. -g http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

lasvegas
08-19-2001, 01:23 PM
I've never seen a specific program (other than older versions of TechTool Pro) that could damage the boot partitions of a hard drive, even with major bugs. My clients almost always ask what they could have done to cause such a problem. I tell them that it's nothing they did, but simply a problem that occurs from time to time. For lack of a better culprit, I like blaming Gremlins. Them buggers are everywhere!

crazyeights
08-20-2001, 11:19 AM
or Space Monkeys, see a lot of them too........

gmidd
08-20-2001, 06:43 PM
Ok, tonight I'm gonna try reformatting the second little drive. It's ok for my hand to touch the power supply enclosure when I go to plug in the power wire, right? (this little drive resides in the zip bay)
I won't get a nasty surprise and a light show, right?
-g


[This message has been edited by gmidd (edited 20 August 2001).]

gmidd
08-20-2001, 11:32 PM
Drive set-up part II- mission accomplished (I only shorted the machine once!) http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif