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greg_w
01-26-2001, 07:00 AM
First, here's the machine: ppc 7300 running 8.6, upgraded with 4.5g barracuda, 9.1g Atlas 10k,
xlr8 USB card, ixmicro ultimate rez video, 304 megs ram.
Here's the trouble:
When I insert a cd the disk does not mount but causes a freeze. The mouse can move but cannot
select anything. When I force quit it restarts to the point where disk first aid checks the system
then it stops and I get an error dialog that says something about "International Utilities not present
please restart with extensions off" So I click the restart button on the dialog box and the same thing happens. If I go through this (I have removed the cd also) a few times in a row it finally relents, finishes the startup and is fine, until I insert a CD. Note: it will start up from the install cd.
what gives?

greg_w
01-26-2001, 07:05 AM
Oh yes, a few other details: I also have a Sonnet G3/400 card installed. This and the Atlas are quite new. The Sonnet about three weeks, and the Atlas about 5 days.

just wanted to supply all the details, thanks

kaye
01-26-2001, 12:56 PM
magician addressed this before:

"you need to use the Keyboard control panel to select the US keyboard. If you have another nationality selected, but lack appropriate resources, the MacOS will bitch." And there may be some other portion of the OS that uses International Utilities (Speech?) that you have inadvertantly selected. k

greg_w
01-26-2001, 01:09 PM
Kaye,
Thank you for your prompt response. Is it possible that I could have caused this by zapping my PRAM? I had a fair amount of system angst after installing the Atlas as my startup with the wrong jumper setting. To restore all to balance I, among other things after resetting the jumper, zapped the pram. Possibly I have set it to a default setting that for some reason is not US?

Greg

greg_w
01-26-2001, 03:05 PM
Well, I checked the keyboard thing and it was already on US.
The cd thing is still happening. I insert the cd into the drive, I hear the disc start to spin, then it stops and no icon appears. The pointer will move but be unable to select anything. The desktop is frozen. This time, when I force quit it reboots fine, going through the disk first aid check with no trouble, but still, no cd.
Help!

Louie
01-26-2001, 04:07 PM
I would suspect SCSI Voodoo such as improper ID's and/or termination and, in particular, jumper settings on the Atlas. All devices should be set to "Get Termination Power from the SCSI Bus"; Parity off, etc.

Of course, there is a possibilty that the CD player is having a electro/mechanical failure. Try cleaning it with compressed air.

If the Sonnet software allows it, try enabling "Write-Through" or whatever Sonnet may call it.

[This message has been edited by Louie (edited 26 January 2001).]

greg_w
01-26-2001, 05:32 PM
Louie,
Thank you for your suggestions. It does have "scsi Voodoo" written all over it, doesn't it? I am not a complete novice here, but I am not an expert either. I want to learn though. The "All devices should be set to "Get Termination Power from the SCSI Bus"; Parity off, etc." I am uncertain about. The setup before the Atlas showed up was: original 2g drive at ID0, cd rom at ID3, and 4.5g Barracuda at ID1. The jumpers are off the Atlas, making it ID0, barracuda is 1 and cd is 3.

How do I do the parity thing? And the termination from the bus? The atlas has a 68-50 pin adapter and OWC, who I bought the drive from, says that the adapter has termination already on it. Now, should I remove them since it is at ID0?

Thanks for the help

magician
01-26-2001, 06:16 PM
that adapter probably only terminates the upper-bytes, if that. Pull the drive from the chain and see what happens. I would also consider doing a clean-install of MacOS. Your Mac does boot off a system CD, after all. You may simply have corrupted system resources.

Louie
01-26-2001, 07:23 PM
The built-in SCSI controllers don't do parity checks. With the Seagate drives just be sure the Parity jumper is off. I don't do Quantum anymore. I think I remember some that had no parity jumper. Check their site (they were bought out by Western Digital, but I think they still have a separate site).

You didn't mention that 68 to 50-pin adapter; bad news usually! The last physical device on the chain should have a termination jumper; no others. I wouldn't trust the 68-pin drive anywhere, but especially not at the end of the chain.

The ID numbers don't have to match the physical sequence of the devices on the chain.

[This message has been edited by Louie (edited 26 January 2001).]

greg_w
01-27-2001, 03:58 PM
well it is certainly the Quantum causing the trouble. All is fine when I swap out another drive for it. I have contacted OWC concerning the adapter for help. Hmmm, maybe I will have to go for one of those miles boards to solve this trouble and speed up the drive. I know you don't do the Quantum drives and prefer Seagate, but possibly eliminating the adapter will fix it. Maybe you will make a sale...off I go to the scsi board page

Louie
01-27-2001, 04:22 PM
Most adapters are junk. OWC adapters are of those type. Granite adapters are good but expnsive and I hope it works.

The whole SCSI world would be better off if people would quit selling 68 pin, SCA and old, fat, hot, and noisey Seagates to unsuspecting customers.

Everyone buys this crap to save money and end up with problems and more expense.

greg_w
02-19-2001, 05:37 PM
OK, I'm back. I have been back and forth with tech support at OWC. We reached a dead end. Clearly the best solution is a scsi card to run the drive properly instead of the adapter. So my question is this: Miles or Miles2? Of course Miles2 is the better of the two but will I be ok and save $50 with the Miles? Please advise.

Louie
02-19-2001, 10:06 PM
A few things, greg.

It looks like that we never established the model numbers of the two drives. Would you list them?

We're now getting into an area that my experience doesn't fully cover. The Miles board is a UW board. UW drives are no longer made. Your OWC drive may be a UW (I don't know yet). Usually it's best to match the board type with the drive type, but is it worth $150 to host an obsolete $50 drive. Maybe/Maybe not. The board is a great board and you could use it to drive six used UW drives; but do you want to?

The Miles 2 is a U2W; the best and fastest board for legacy Macs. It's really for LVD drives. I think it can be used to host single-ended, UW drives, but I've never tried it. We need Magician or Kaye to get into that.

Give us the model numbers, and, between us, we'll come up with the best compromise for you.

Now do you see why I made that earlier statement about sellers of those old drives?

greg_w
02-20-2001, 12:50 AM
Hi Louie,
Thanks for the response. First, I hope it isn't an "obsolete $50. drive". It is, for the record, a Quantum Atlas 10k 9.1gb Ultra2 scsi drive according to the OWC invoice. The part number from the drive itself is: TN09L011 rev 01-F the s/n: 119017649110 it also has printed on the drive: "Ultra 160m/LVD/SE" and it cost me $180.00. If it gives me good I/O performance, which was the whole point, it is worth $150. to me to make it get along with the rest of the system. (Right now the only way that I can get a CD to mount is to connect to my 6500/300's CD drive via ethernet, and that's getting a bit old!) I do enough Photoshop/Quark/Flash work to need to have all the performance from my 7300 I can get. (yes, I am thinking of running a computer museum. I have a great state of the art 1997 exhibit started)
I thank you for your interest and offer of help.

Greg W

greg_w
02-20-2001, 12:54 AM
Oh yes, you did say "two drives". The other drive here I guess would be the CD itself. That one is the stock CD-rom that shipped with the drive. According to Apple System Profiler it is a "Matshita CD-ROM CR-8012" Sorry about that, I hope that is all the information you need.
Thanks Again.

Louie
02-20-2001, 01:53 AM
Sorry; most people come away from OWC with old, fat, hot, Wide or SCA drives with adapters and I got you confused with some other posters. My apologies! I was thinking it was a UW.

Since the Quantum is an LVD drive, then certainly the Miles2 is the card you want. It does LVD which will give you the maximum performance.

After rereading this thread, It's still unclear what has been hosting the Quantum. Has it been on the built-in bus?

I asked about two drives because in your first post you mentioned a 4.5 GB Seagate Barracuda. What are the details about that?

Your original posted problem probably stemmed from improper termination. LVD drives have no built-in termination and have to have a terminated cable or be postioned in the chain where another drive can provide termination at the end of the chain.

greg_w
02-20-2001, 08:10 AM
Louie, no apology needed.

The Quantum is on the internal bus via an adapter. The other drive is indeed a Barracuda.

The Barracuda is at ID1. It is a 4.5gb/Fast SCSI-2/7200rpm/1mb buffer/50 pin. product ID: ST15150N

Thanks for the help.

Louie
02-20-2001, 02:53 PM
The Internal built-in bus is the proper bus for The Seagate, which is a 10 MB/s max SCSI-2. It is the drive that should be providing termination at the end of the chain. Here's the jumper settings for the Barracuda http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/scsi/st15150n.html . It should be set for Term Power From the SCSI Host at J01, Parity off, Termination On, etc.

The Quantum may never work properly on that bus using that adapter, but to try, that drive must not be at the end of the chain. With a Miles 2 for the Quantum, your problems should go away.

magician
02-20-2001, 11:35 PM
absolutely.

greg_w
02-21-2001, 12:07 AM
Alrighty then, sounds to me like I have come around to what I figured was the solution in the first place-the miles2 card.

I seem to be learning this lesson over and over. I have a jaz 2gb that I bought a jazjet ultra scsi card for from Iomega and it doesn't work worth a damn. It was cheap and so on...now the jaz sits on the end of the external bus and works just fine, a little slow.

Off I go to place an order. I will let you know how it goes. Thanks

Louie
02-21-2001, 02:35 AM
Good grief! Iomega made an Ultra SCSI card!

magician
02-21-2001, 06:36 PM
actually...I think it may have been made for them by UltraSys?

I may be wrong. It's been a long day, and I am still suffering nicotine withdrawal.

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

greg_w
03-01-2001, 10:31 AM
You guys are the best.

The Miles2 was delivered yesterday, I just installed it and the drive rocks! The Miles2 card is as advertised and money well spent.

Louie, thank you for the proper settings for the Barracuda. Once I put in the card, attached the Atlas, placed/removed the jumpers on both drives and restarted-problem solved!

I don't know how you all find the time to do this forum but I am glad you do.

Thanks again

Louie
03-01-2001, 03:11 PM
Great Greg; you've made my day!

So the old Barracuda is on the internal bus and the Atlas is on the Miles 2, right? What kind of transfer rates are you getting using ATTO SpeedTools off our FTP site (set it for 8 MB)?

greg_w
03-05-2001, 04:10 PM
Louie,

You are welcome.

I will go get that from the ftp site now and let you know.

greg_w
03-06-2001, 01:27 PM
Louie,

I went to the ftp site, wow what a resource! But I am unable to find ATTO Speed Tools.
Possibly ExpressPro-Tools? Where can I find it?

Greg

kaye
03-06-2001, 02:34 PM
Greg,

Louie meant ATTO ExpressPro-Tools. k

Louie
03-06-2001, 08:56 PM
That's what I meant. Sorry

greg_w
03-09-2001, 07:58 AM
Louie,
OK, I got the app, here's the result:
the settings:
max transfer-8mb
expected-80mb
sample-2
READ- peak:61, sustained:25
WRITE-peak:23.75, sustained:21.5

I was hoping that the sustained results would be better, but they are great compared to the narrow scsi Barracuda. Boy that was an eye opener!

I guess that we are getting away from the original topic here. But thanks again for all the help.

Greg

Louie
03-09-2001, 09:08 PM
Greg; thanks for the info.

My memory is lost. Are the lights on the Miles 2 card showing that you are in the LVD or SE mode?

greg_w
03-13-2001, 04:08 PM
Hmmm,
That's a good one.

I enabled lvd mode when I set the jumpers on the Miles. In order to see the lights I'll have to pop the cover. Can't do that today, I'll get back to you. (Having one of the New World towers with the door would be sweet for this sort of thing-a few other reasons, too)

Greg w

magician
03-14-2001, 04:07 AM
you set jumpers on a Miles2?

uh oh....

kaye
03-14-2001, 12:54 PM
Greg, I second that question. What jumpers on the Initio card did you set? k

greg_w
03-15-2001, 12:34 AM
Did I say the Miles? oh, I did.
I meant the DRIVE jumpers. sorry about that.

are there jumpers on the card? I may not need to know that. I will try to get back to you about the lights on the card tomorrow.

Sorry to cause alarm.

Greg

magician
03-15-2001, 05:57 AM
phew!

scared me there for a minute.

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

greg_w
03-27-2001, 10:42 PM
OK finally, I am inside. Sorry that took so long. What lights mean what here? Are there lights on the card itself? Does the cpu have to be transfering data to the drive to get a display?

Greg W

Louie
03-27-2001, 11:21 PM
There are three lights near the edge of the board fairly close together. They are SE, LVD and ACT. The center light on means you are in the LVD mode. No data activity needed.

[This message has been edited by Louie (edited 27 March 2001).]

greg_w
04-01-2001, 09:21 PM
Yes I can see the lights on the edge. The one that indictes LVD is lit. I assume that this means I am running with maximum performance for the set up that I have. Is that right?

GregW

Louie
04-01-2001, 11:32 PM
Right.

greg_w
04-13-2001, 10:55 PM
By the way, thanks again for all your help. All works smoothly now.

GW

Louie
04-14-2001, 11:26 PM
You're welcome. Good!