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parisengr
03-12-2001, 11:20 AM
I bought a 1G seagate drive for my 8100/80/av and wanted to install it in the computer as an extra SCSI drive in addtion to the 500mB boot drive. I bought the drive off ebay and the seller said it had an active sys folder and some other things on it. I tried coonecting it first, in the place of the boot drive and it didn't recognize it was connected. It was hard to get to the SCSI connection and I may not have made a solid connection. First of all, could this have damaged the drive and/or the data on it? I reconnected it on a different SCSI bus ( there are 2) with the original boot drive. It showed up with the SCSI id and all but wouldn't mount. I tried using soft raid to initialize it and it said there was an error and it could not be initialized. So my questions are 2 fold. Is the drive now a big paperweight? And when I reconnected the boot drive and put everything back together, now the computer doesn't even power up. It's like it isn't even plugged into the wall. I removed the boot drive and tested it in another computer and it's fine. Put it back in the 8100 and nothing?? What can I check? Nothing is obvious upon first glance. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanx in advance. -Paul

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Total Traxx Rec. Studios
2458 Boston Post Rd
Guilford, CT 06437

kaye
03-12-2001, 12:52 PM
p,

First the SoftRAID issue, from their website:

NOTE: About NuBus based Macintosh computers:
SoftRAID requires a PCI based Mac OS system to perform its drive acceleration. This is because 68k and PowerPC based Macs with NuBus slots both require a 68K driver on the disk drive. SoftRAID's high performance acceleration only works with PCI based systems. If you have a PowerPC NuBus machine (6100, 7100, 8100, Power Base, etc.), then SoftRAID's native driver will not work.

Need to know the full model number of the Seagate drive? I suspect a termination or termination power problem or duplicate ID numbers. Also you may have had two failures simultaneously. Possible is the PRAM battery on the motherboard. Go here http://www.macgurus.com/shoppingcart/obj_show_page.cgi?mbppc8100.html and look on the right side, a rectangle not labeled and just to the right of the DRAM SIMMs slots, that is the battery. Another picture here (mobo upside down) http://www.sur-tech.com/cgi/page?item,m820-0588-a100 look on the left side just outboard of the RAM slots, battery with a slotted cover on it. Radio Shack #23-026, Lithium 3.6V, 850mAh, $10.

Also need model number of the boot drive and where on the physical chain it is located and whether there is anything else on that chain such as CD drive and its ID.

Some of the is info is available via Apple System Profiler (ASP). k

parisengr
03-12-2001, 01:14 PM
Wow, thanx!! OK, so the new 1G drive (by the way, ST11200N) may actually be OK?
Hmmmm. Had the jumper on the left most pins and the SCSI ID showed up in ASProfiler as ID 4. So the unit may not be powering up because of the battery??
Or did I read that wrong? The boot drive is a Conner CFA540S (CA9EZGR G66316 8FP111 SG3 P SLV05 CS4390Q32QMC) Says Apple Computer Inc. on it of course.
There are 2 SCSI chains in this machine. I'm going by memory now cause I can't check the ID's anymore, but I believe the CD-rom is id3 and the boot drive was id0 and we set the new seagate to id 4. I tried the drive on both chains and nothing. Termination or termination power huh? I've has termination problems in the past with my G3. It was a nightmare for awhile. I guess the main problem now is to get the unit to power on so what's the first step? Thanx for all your help and look forward to hearing more. -Paul

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Total Traxx Rec. Studios
2458 Boston Post Rd
Guilford, CT 06437

kaye
03-12-2001, 03:38 PM
What G3? Yeah, get a battery so we can eliminate that as a possibility. It typically lasts for 2-3 years. If you have another keyboard and cable, also try that. If the keyboard power button hardware starts to fail, that can cause similar problems.

Like you say, first order is to get the machine to crank up. Then we'll check those drives for termination settings. k

parisengr
03-12-2001, 06:37 PM
Well, I replaced the battery and that didn't do it. Don't really know what to do from here. I double checked all the connections. ????

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Total Traxx Rec. Studios
2458 Boston Post Rd
Guilford, CT 06437

parisengr
03-12-2001, 07:54 PM
OK, I'm relentless. I took everything apart including the power supply to check the fuse. Lo and behold when I got it back together it worked! Go figure.

So anyway, now where back to the 1G Seagate drive. I have that on id4 (scsi bus 1) and the boot drive is id0 (scsi bus 0). The Seagate drive shows up in system profiler, but no capacity, vendor, etc.... all n/a. ?????

parisengr
03-12-2001, 08:38 PM
Damn. It's dead again. All I did was unplug, re-install ethernet card, try to power up. Nothing. Uninstalled e-net card, put it back the way it was, and it was dead. No power, no noise, no chime. I think I have a wacky power supply unless someone has any aother suggestions. This is very frustrating!!!

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Total Traxx Rec. Studios
2458 Boston Post Rd
Guilford, CT 06437

kaye
03-12-2001, 08:49 PM
OK, give me some time to check the drives for some specifications. Whoops, I see it's dead again. Maybe the power cord? Is the power cord plugged into the wall? No wall switch controlling that wall plug? Sorry, I had to ask. I "fixed" a friend's TV that way once. Or plugged into something else, like a UPS or a surge suppressor? Are you reinstalling the cover which may be pinching/shorting something? Just some ideas, though it may be the power supply. Totally dead? No fans or HD's startup? k

parisengr
03-12-2001, 08:56 PM
Nah, not the power cable or outlet. I've been unplugging from the back of the machine only. It's nothing stupid like that, unfortunately.

No drives, no chime, dead!!! Not even putting the cover back on. I have no clue unless it's an intermittent problem. Don't know what to do??

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Total Traxx Rec. Studios
2458 Boston Post Rd
Guilford, CT 06437

kaye
03-12-2001, 08:59 PM
It may be that enet card that is doing the damage. Leave it out of the mix. If you decide you want another power supply, go here http://www.sur-tech.com/cgi/page?item,m614-0012 . He is good to deal with and prices are rock bottom. Only downside is you need to use PayPal or wait while he can varify a check.

If you have one, try another keyboard and ADB cable. With machine shut down, do the plugging/unplugging. ADB is not hot swap on your machine. k

kaye
03-12-2001, 09:03 PM
Which brings me to another question, how are you trying to startup? k

parisengr
03-12-2001, 09:30 PM
E-net card is out. Keyboard not even connected. Using power button on back to try to start up. Worked before, ya know?? I don't get it?

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Total Traxx Rec. Studios
2458 Boston Post Rd
Guilford, CT 06437

Louie
03-12-2001, 10:43 PM
There were a few old Macs and Performa's that had power reset buttons. I don't know about the 8100. Do you have a manual to check?

Louie
03-12-2001, 11:01 PM
It is possible that the power switch is bad. I just read the manual and it talks about turning the power switch off with the power cord plugged in; let it sit in the off position for 10 seconds and then turn it on to reset the switch. It also speaks of trying the small reset button on the front panel (round with small triangle). Judicious use of a volt meter would tell you if power is getting past the switch.

parisengr
03-13-2001, 09:46 AM
Removing the battery and the video card for a bit and reconnecting allows the unit to power up. Power switch seems ok. I've power down and up the unit a dozen times now with no problem. How can I check the drive now. In drive setup the drive appears to be not initialized, yet it was and has software on it. Could not plugging the scsi cable all the way in and powering up have caused the drive to appear this way? What should I do? Is the data gone? Thanx.

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Total Traxx Rec. Studios
2458 Boston Post Rd
Guilford, CT 06437

parisengr
03-13-2001, 10:48 AM
Well, a pattern is developing, sort of. Everytime I try to do anything, like unplugging a Cd-ROM or putting in another drive, after I get reconnected the unit doesn't power up. I simply remove the battery for 30 seconds put it back in, and everything's fine....til the next time it happens.

Someone must know what this is all about and where the problem lies. I'm scared to box it all back up because pulling the battery will be a royal pain.

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Total Traxx Rec. Studios
2458 Boston Post Rd
Guilford, CT 06437

Louie
03-13-2001, 01:11 PM
Every time you pull the battery you are resetting the PRAM, so I'd guess that something is corrupting the PRAM data.

Kaye is the expert on NuBus Macs and he is about to leave home on a trip around tha Bay Area till late afternoon. Trag is also into NuBus machines, but usually only posts at night. Magician has been out of touch electronically since yesterday afternoon but may wander in here.

Hang on; well get you some help ASAP.

kaye
03-13-2001, 01:22 PM
Your machine seems to be unusually finicky about allowing changes to your system. Why, I don't know. But at least you know how to overcome it, removing the battery. For the moment, leave the enet card out of the box and let's get to the drive situation.

I'm going to do some research on those HDs. In the meantime, I need to know if you have any other drive utilities besides Apple Drive Setup? What OS are you running? You can get the latest version of Drive Setup, which may recognize the drive and what's on it, on our FTP site.

Put the drives and CD on the internal SCSI connector. Tell me what the physical chain looks like. For instance:

mobo int SCSI--->Seagate--->Conner--->CD drive

k

kaye
03-13-2001, 01:24 PM
I'm still here Louie. Don't leave for another hour or so but got to get ready for it too. k

Louie
03-13-2001, 01:38 PM
Kaye:

Did you see my email?

kaye
03-13-2001, 01:38 PM
Louie, maybe you can help with jumper settings:

New drive, Seagate ST11200N here http://www.seagate.com:80/cgi-bin/view.cgi?/scsi/st11200n.txt

Boot drive, Conner CFA540S http://www.seagate.com:80/support/disc/scsi/cfa540s.html and http://www.seagate.com:80/support/disc/specs/conner/cfa540s.html

I can explore this more thoroughly later if you are busy, I know you are. He needs to answer some questions anyway. Those two drives are a headache as you will see. k

Louie
03-13-2001, 01:41 PM
Don't those 8100's use big black terminators?

trag
03-13-2001, 02:04 PM
Parisengr, when you mentioned the video card, is that a card in the PDS slot? That's the non-NuBus slot above the NuBus slots and next to the power supply. If so, do you have an HPV card or an AV card. If not, then do you have a termination card in the PDS slot?

Assuming that the card to which you were referring is either an HPV card or the AV card, make sure that it is firmly seated. It can take a bit of force to get the thing into the slot. I bought an 8100/110 from Hawaii once (I'm in Texas) and when I got it it wouldn't power up. It turned out the HPV card had come just loose enough to cause problems, but not loose enough to be ignored. So make sure that any card in the HPV slot is properly seated.

I'd go ahead and check the ROM and cache DIMMs as well. I don't have any experiential reason to think they would be the problem, but it can't hurt to check.

You may wish to replace the battery on the theory that it may be moastly ded. In those cases it might be supplying enough juice to keep some data in PRAM, but not enough to maintain it properly, resulting in corrupt partial data in PRAM. The battery is about $10 at Radio Shack. Check the date code on the new one to make sure it hasn't been on the shelf a long time.

parisengr
03-13-2001, 02:41 PM
Thanx guys! Hopefully with your help I'll get to the bottom of this. I don't think I have any other utilities, but I'll look. May have an older version of Norton on a Zip Disk somewhere.

I am running OS 8.5

The video card is in the PDS slot and I believe it is an AV card. (S-Video in's and out's) plus it IS an 8100/80/"AV".

I just changed the battery and I believe it to be fresh but I'll have to go to my studio and pick up my meter to test it.

All the cards and chips seem to be seated properly. When the case is back together, the AV card is solid, but when it's apart, the other side that is NOT in the MB hangs. The little plastic thingy doesn't seem to be holding it, almost like it's too far away to grab it. Maybe that couples with the weight of the monitor plug couls be causing it, I dunno??

I have 2 internal SCSI buses, 0 and 1. I have the Seagate 1G set to id4 and the boot drive set to id0. I don't think I can get all 3 together on 1 bus due to the cable. I've just been trying to get the Seagate working at this point.

Do we think I fired the Seagate drive, or is there a good chance the data is still there? Thanx guys.

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Total Traxx Rec. Studios
2458 Boston Post Rd
Guilford, CT 06437

magician
03-14-2001, 04:10 AM
I have a profound suspicion that this is a termination issue.

parisengr
03-14-2001, 09:55 AM
OK, so how do I solve it? Would a termination issue cause the drive to appear blank and in need of initialization?

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Total Traxx Rec. Studios
2458 Boston Post Rd
Guilford, CT 06437

trag
03-14-2001, 01:01 PM
A termination issue might cause the drive to be unreadable. If the drive is unreadable, then the MacOS would assume that it needs to be initialized. So, yes a termination problem could cause the problem you are having.

Have you solved your power problem? You probably realize this, but the power cable in the 8100 unplugs at both the power supply end and the motherboard end. make sure that the cable is securely plugged into the power supply.

As far as termination goes, your SCSI cables inside the machine should look like this:

case 1) MB=====D=======DT

or

case 2) MB=====D=======D=====T

Where === is cable, MB is motherboard, D is any SCSI device, and T is termination.

There may be more or fewer than two D's on the cable. The important thing is for the MB to be at one end of the cable and for the T to be at the other end of the cable. The T by itself is a separate terminator that plugs into the cable. DT indicates a device with termination enabled on the device.

The 8100 shipped with a separate terminator that plugged into the last connector on one of the SCSI cables. So in the diagram for Case 2 one plugs that separate terminator into the last connector on the SCSI cable and puts the devices on other connectors.

In case 1, there is no separate terminator. One makes sure that one device is at the end of the SCSI cable and enables termination on that device. According to the tech sheets that Kaye referenced below, your hard drives require the intallation of resistor packs (about 1" long with a bunch of pins coming out of them in a row) to enable termination and the removal of those resistor packs to disable termination.

Your CDROM drive should have a jumper that enables and disable termination.

So, without knowing exactly how many connectors you have on your SCSI cables and whehter or not you have the separate terminator that shipped with the machine, here is my recommendation. There is more than one way you could configure these drives, so other arrangements will work, but to give you specific advice, I must choose one of the choices.

First, examine the SCSI connectors on the motherboard and on all your drives, to make sure you don't have a bent pin or two in the connector. It occurs to me that a bent pin might be causing a short in the 5V supply which might prevent the power supply from coming on.

===============SCSI Bus 1=================
Put the CDROM drive on SCSI bus 1 by itself. Make sure that it is plugged into the last connector on the SCSI ribbon cable. Make sure that termination is enabled on the CDROM drive.

**OR**

Alternatively, if you wish to use the separate terminator with the CDROM drive, plug the separate terminator into the last connector on the SCSI cable for Bus 1. Put the CDROM drive on the (or any) connector between the Motherboard and the terminator. Make sure that termination and termination power are disabled on the CDROM drive.

=================SCSI Bus 0=====================
Put the two hard drives on SCSI bus 0. It doesn't matter which drive goes where as long as one is at the physical end of the SCSI cable. Install (or leave in place) the termination resistor packs on the drive which is at the end of the cable. Remove the termination resistor packs from the drive which is in the middle of the cable.

===OR====
Alternatively, if you wish to use the separate SCSI terminator, then plug the SCSI terminator into the last connector on the SCSI cable. Remove the termination resistor packs from both hard drives and plug each into a middle (between MB and terminator) connector on the cable. This option requires that your cable have four connectors (two for drives, 1 for MB, 1 for Term).

=========for both SCSI bus 0 options========
Check the jumper settings on both drives and make sure that Termination Power is disabled. Termination Power is different (though related to) termination. Except in rare instances, you always want Termination Power disabled. The motherboard takes care of supplying it.

Hopefully that will settle any termination issues. If any of that is unclear to you feel free to ask for elaboration.

kaye
03-14-2001, 01:02 PM
Once again but slightly modified, I need diagrams of how you have your SCSI chains:

Tell me what the physical chains look like. For instance:
mobo int SCSI connector--->Conner--->CD drive
mobo ext SCSI connector--->Seagate

What do they look like? I can't troubleshoot termination without this info. Whoops, I see t has laid it out for you. k

[This message has been edited by kaye (edited 14 March 2001).]

angela
03-15-2001, 01:56 AM
Hi,

I hear your frustration and it sounds like you have a serious problem and it could be the combination of several things:

1. bad video card and hard drive
2. bad romm simm or the machine does not like some ram simms
3. hard drive needs to be reinitialized with drive set up and reformatted with OS 8.5 (perhaps there is no system folder on the drive)
4. drives are terminated properly or the last device on the chain is not terminated
5. your SCSI cables may need to be changed
6. could have a bad CDrom
7. pins could be defective on your drives or connectors
8. defective power supply
9. motherboard is dying or needs to be replaced

It disturbs me that you don't hear the familiar "gong" when you power up and that there is no video at all. The 8100 is very finicky when it comes to ram. It is common for the L2 cache to die in these machines without you knowing it. It is a good thing that you replaced the battery for starters. Before you deal with issue of terminating the drives on the chain, you need to deal with trying to boot up with the bare minimum attached to the computer. I would suggest that you disconnect all drives attached to the 8100 with the exception of the CDrom. The gurus are right that you check to see if its terminated properly. After you changed the battery, did you reset the pram, by holding down the option +apple key +P+R? Well, after you disconnect everything but the CDrom drive, try to boot from the OS 8.5 by holding down the "C" key. If you still can't boot or the screen is black, then you probably have a motherboard issue. Check the ram and the romm simms to make sure they are in working order and that they are not defective. The next thing is to add one hard drive and test it with with a SCSI Probe, such as Adaptec http://www.adaptec.com/worldwide/support/driversbycat.html?cat=%2fTechnology%2fMacintosh%2f SCSI+for+Macintosh which is a drive utility. It will indicate if the drive is mounted. In addition, you can also use the Apple Drive Setup to see if the drive appears in the window. If not, the system is not reading the drive or there is a problem with the drive. Shut the computer down and reboot, if there is a question mark or still a blank screen without the "gong" then there is a strong possibility that you need to replace the motherboard. I give you this advice because I experienced the same symptoms you have described. I ended up replacing the motherboard, CDrom and the power supply. Best wishes with your troubleshooting.

parisengr
03-15-2001, 07:55 AM
Thanx all. I'm still having all problems and am ready to throw the computer out the window!!

The chains look like this. SCSI chain 0 MB====>CD-ROM

SCSI chain 1 MB===>CONNER===>SEAGATE===>separate T

...although I've tried other combinations, that is the easiest to do with the way the cables are situated.

Not exactly sure what you mean by termination power? On the seagate there are 2 rows of 8 tiny pins on the bottom PCB (about an inch long). There is nothing on them?? Also, not sure about the Conner or the CD-ROM as far as termination and term power. I assume the CD-ROM is properly terminated because it always has been. And I assume the Conner is alright because of the separate T on the chain.

Angela-
As far as you replacing the motherboard, the PS and the Cd-ROM, wouldn't it just be easier to just buy a new computer?? Also, I checked the drives with SCSI probe and it says something about a bad map on the seagate. That's what made me think it was messed up and needed to be initialized. However, it was supposedly fine with an active sys folder on it when I got it so it makes me wonder. I tried using soft raid on it but it wouldn't even let me initialize it. I later was told that that won't work with NuBus macs.

I'm going to play with it a little more and see if I can figure out what's causing it to not always power up. I'm at my wits end however. Thanx all.
Any other suggestions?

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Total Traxx Rec. Studios
2458 Boston Post Rd
Guilford, CT 06437

angela
03-15-2001, 10:50 AM
Don't throw out the computer!!! I totally understand your frustration. I had my computer down for a couple of months trying to figure out what was wrong. I replaced the motherboard, CDrom and power supply for a reasonable amount because I bought off the auctions. You probably wont have to replace anything as long as the motherboard is working okay. It could be that you just have a bad power supply, but you obviously were able to power up in order to use the SCSI probe. Its just a bad sign when you dont hear the "gong." Glad to hear that yuo were able to use the SCSI probe and since you got an error message with one of your drives. You probably should try to save anything important stored on the drive and reformat if using the current drive setup off the Apple site. The drive that you purchased off ebay probably had been formatted, but it might not be compatible with your system. So its just a good idea to reformat it with the OS 8.5.

As far as the termination of the drive, there should be some terminator pins (small black pins that go are placed on the 2 rows of pins) on the drive. If there are no pins on there, then the drive is not terminated. You would have to contact Conner and Seagate tech support to get information about how many pins each drive needs and where to place the pins. You might be able to go to the website http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/specs/model_st3.html and look up the model and check out the pin configuration. Conner drive information can be found at http://www.campbelltechnical.com/conner.htm You can also call them and they can tell you how to place your pins if the diagrams are too confusing. Both drives need pins so that the computer can read where the drive is in the SCSI chain.

When you removed the hard drives and tried powering up with just the CDrom and the OS 8.5 only, what happened? Did you hear the gong? Did you boot and get video with any problems? Did you check the CDrom SCSI ID which should be 3? If so, then your problems can be narrowed to the hard drives only. If its the hard drives, you have to deal with setting the pins correctly and right now there are no pins which is not good. What are the model numbers of the Conner and the Seagate? Maybe I can help you with configuring. I will also need to know where you would like which SCSI IDs you want to assign to each drive. When you used the SCSI probe, what were the IDs for both drives?

I was looking at how you have your drives set up and it was not clear which bus you are using. What type of SCSI ribbon are you using? You should have a 4 device ribbon cable that attaches from to the bottom connector (Bus 0) on the motherboard. The system will run flawlessly if you get the HDs and the CDrom all on the same BUS 0. I would avoid the top SCSI connector (Bus 1) if at all possible since this should be reserved for external drives.

Just hang in there!!! The gurus are right about your termination issues. I think you should be close to figuring out the culprit of your problems. I hope this helps...

--Angela

kaye
03-15-2001, 04:43 PM
Angela, neither of those very old drives have Termination Enable pins. They both have resistor packs for termination. The ST11200N has three separately installed resistor packs by the rear of the drive according to this http://www.seagate.com:80/cgi-bin/view.cgi?/scsi/st11200n.txt just above where it says +Terminating Resistors+. Going to this page http://www.seagate.com:80/support/disc/scsi/st11200n.html it calls them I/O Terminators and shows the packs on the logic board of the drive near the rear. The Conner http://www.seagate.com:80/support/disc/specs/conner/cfa540s.html calls the two resistor packs SCSI Terminators and the little description underneath is missing one word. It should say Remove in all but the "LAST" drive in the chain.

p, if you followed the above, you are going to need to look at those HDs. You have indicated thus (and for the moment, to keep it simple, forget termination power):

The chains look like this.
SCSI chain 0 MB====>CD-ROM
SCSI chain 1 MB===>CONNER===>SEAGATE===>separate T

OK, for now leave the CD-ROM where it is. It worked on this bus by itself OK before, right?

On chain 1, check that the resistor packs on the Conner are removed. If not, remove them but carefully diagram and mark which way, which hard drive, and which position those packs go, for the future if you ever want to use them again. Tell us whether they were there and that you removed them.

The Seagate, if the termination resistor packs are there, leave them there, and remove the "separate T" if by that you mean a terminator. Then remove the 50-pin connector from the Seagate and install the last 50-pin connector on the cable (from which you removed the "separate T"). The Seagate termination is better than that old terminator on the end of the cable.

If the Seagate termination resistor packs are missing, then leave the "separate T" installed.

Now, where are we? k

angela
03-15-2001, 08:15 PM
Kaye,

Well, since I had no info on the models I was unaware that the drives are truly vintage, but that doesn't matter as much as are they damaged or are in need of reformatting. I agree that the issue of terminatination can be put aside for now. Push come to shove, they can be replaced. One of the drives has generated an error message.

The issue is finding out if the system will boot without problems. According to the way the computer is set up, the CDrom is on the top connector. The drives should be disconnected from the motherboard to see how the CDrom works by itself in booting as I mentioned earlier. If the system boots with OS 8.5, although I would recommend OS 8.1 for testing purposes, then this is a good sign that the computer is functioning. Hear the gong, video on the monitor and the OS shows on the desktop. This should be a smooth operation.

What are you thoughts?

kaye
03-15-2001, 10:55 PM
Angela,

I dunno. I'm thinking he is overwhelmed with info and is not sure what to do, plus frustration is setting in. I'm having the same thing with a PTP I'm setting up. The difference is I can make progress because I have my hot little hands on it, whereas we are trying to talk him thru the problems. Sometimes that just does not work, even with the synergy of several helping out. k

parisengr
03-16-2001, 03:20 AM
Hey guys-
I really do appreciate all the help. This is a very cool board. Problem is, there are 2 totally separarte issues here, and it's frustrating when you're trying to solve a termination problem, and the darn thing just keeps deciding not to power up. I've removed the battery and put the case back together and haven't had any problems in 2 days. Of course, I haven't been in there poking around, putting drives in, removing the power cable to do so, and putting it back in, and such. Wish I knew for sure if it was the video card, PS, or MB, then I could replace one of them. Don't really want to replace all of them because I still feel I could probably find another machine on ebay for a fraction of the cost or replacing all 3 parts.
As far as the termination issue, it all pretty much makes sense and I intend to try the suggestions over the weekend when I have more time. I'll post and let y'all know how I made out. Thanx again. -Paul

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Total Traxx Rec. Studios
2458 Boston Post Rd
Guilford, CT 06437

angela
03-16-2001, 09:46 AM
Kaye,

I agree with the fact that all this information is overwhelming. It would be so nice if he had a Mac buddy to come and troubleshoot with him and of course bring some old spare parts. He is right about 2 issues pinpointing the power up problem and then there is the cost of replacement parts. He did the right thing by taking the battery out. I had consulted with a email friend who knows the 8100 like the back of his hand and he helped me along with the gurus when my 8100 wouldn't do anything. My friend agreed that the problem was the battery.

I would recommend waiting to buy any parts since there isn't enough information to know which parts are faulty. I think he should read this related post http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/Forum8/HTML/000176.html , especially the comment made by trag. He talks about the power on issue.

parisengr
03-16-2001, 10:14 AM
Hi Angela-
I did read that post, and although very informative, it didn't help my situation. I still haven't determined if it's the power supply or not, as it is an intermittent problem. I actually have some basic knowledge in electronics and computers (well, Mac only really) but this one is eluding me.

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Total Traxx Rec. Studios
2458 Boston Post Rd
Guilford, CT 06437

angela
03-16-2001, 10:31 AM
Paul,

I am glad to know that you are still hanging in there. Sorry that all this info is overwhelming to you and believe me it was for me as well a couple of months ago. This was my post http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000221.html Let me share my story wth you. Around Thanksgiving I bought my 8100 for $30 at a Mac garage sale and I was so happy. It worked nicely for a couple of weeks then I noticed that I couldn't power up, didn't hear the gong and I got the question mark on the screen. I was devastated, but it got worse, then I heard the car crash noise. I was about to cry. I spent the next 2 months troubleshooting. The guy that had sold me the computer was a PC person and was horrible when I attempted to reach him. He sold me a lemon. I ended up replacing the power supply when it fried my CDrom drive. The cable that was in there was too short to fill-up all the bays with drives, so I had to change it to a 4 device ribbon. Then I noticed that my ram was not reading properly, about 40 mb was lost out there somewhere. So I opened up the case and tested each ram simm to make sure I didn't have some bad ones. I was given a gift of 128 mb of ram, but theey were EDO simms, so I thought I couldn't use them since everytime I put them in there, the computer either crashed or froze. I knew that they were compatible, but something was wrong. I doublechecked the CDrom termination and my little hard drive. My hard drive is an old 160 mb drive, but I managed to squeeze OS 9 on it. THe next thing I noticed that my CDrom would not allow to reformat the hard drive nor add items. This was so weird. Then I stripped everything down to retest and I still was having problems booting of the OS 9 disk from the CDrom, so I took my board out and was starring at it and decided to change the L2 cache. I was able to boot and the missing 40 mb ram was now reading. But I noticed if I left the computer on for about 6-8 hours, it would freeze. I knew that I had done extensive testing to make sure each device was properly terminated and each device had a different ID using the SCSI Probe. I made sure the cables were tight and everything was hooked up where it was supposed to go and I still was getting unpredictable booting issues. This is when I knew somewhere on the motherboard was a signal problem--it was the culprit. I got another board and I have never had anymore problems with booting or error messages. I purchased a slot loading CDrom to replace the 12x CDrom and added an internal zip drive and life has never been better, although this was optional. Bare minimal I spent $40 dollars to replace the board and I had another power supply at home. Since my drive is so small I use an external drive or network with my 6100. My old board seemed to be working okay after I took it out, but it was really dying. One day I was testing out some sold simms so I could label them and I lost power and video. So, I made the right decision in getting a new board. But I am happy now and glad that I didn't throw the computer out the window. So I say all of this so that you know that I truly understand how you feel right now. But I know that you will resolve your problems too.

P.S. Keep me posted on your progress. Best Wishes.

--Angela

parisengr
03-16-2001, 11:03 AM
WOW!!! I actually recently picked up a 6100 myself, because the CD-ROM in the 8100's tray was sticking. The whole computer was $30 so I figured, why not? This was right after the problems, but I know it's not the CD-ROM because when I took it out of the circuit it did the same thing. The problem started happening after I put the Seagate drive in there. I'm just not sure if I had the SCSI cable all the way in, and this may have messed up the directory on the drive, but that doesn't seem likely that it made the computer weird, but who knows? I'm going to look on ebay because if I can find another 8100 for like $30 - $50 it will be worth it and easier to troubleshoot since I have 2 machines. Whattya think? -Paul

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Total Traxx Rec. Studios
2458 Boston Post Rd
Guilford, CT 06437

parisengr
03-16-2001, 11:34 AM
Well.....I don't how good a deal this was, but it should helpmy troubleshooting issues. Whattya think?
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1221747154



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Total Traxx Rec. Studios
2458 Boston Post Rd
Guilford, CT 06437

angela
03-16-2001, 04:35 PM
Paul,

Way to go!!! Glad that you won the auction--good price. Now you can use the old one to soup the new 8100 and have extra parts. Combine all the ram simms and you will have more memory since you have 8 slots to fillup. The new one has a nice sized hard drive which is cool.

As for Seagate hard drives--I hate them very passionatley. I had 2 of them and they caused my 6100 to crash constantly. Then I got another Seagate and it did the same thing. I experienced not being able to boot sometimes and other times the question mark popped up or the drive always gave some error. Drove me crazy--I reinstalled software over and over until it just quit finally and I have heard other people complain about Seagate in their Macs. I promised myself that I would never buy anything other than Quantum again. Since you won the auction, contact the seller and find out what brand the 1 gig drive is. I pray it is not a Seagate. If it is, please ask them if they dont mind giving you another 1 gig, anything but the Seagate brand. Experience has taught me to stick with Quamtum.

Cool, you have a 6100 as well. I love my little "pizza box" and recently I networked it with the 8100 and I love this setup. Oh, hail to the vintage Macs!!! http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/dance.gif

I was also thinking if you get another hard drive for the old 8100 maybe it will be working like it should. To test this, borrow the hard drive from the 6100 and put it in the 8100 just to see how the computer behaves. If it boots and you hear the gong, then it was your Seagate hard drive all along. Bad drives cause strange behavior. If you had Norton Utilities to run on the Seagate, I'm sure it would report a lot of errors, but Disk First Aids should give some error reports as well. Then you should send your Seagate drive to the Mac graveyard for good. You could probably find another hard drive on ebay for $10-15 dollars.

Let me know what happens if you decide to try the drive from the 6100 in the 8100. Also, keep me posted on the new 8100.

--Angela

parisengr
03-17-2001, 04:45 AM
ok check this out....

I ran Transoft SCSI Director on the drive. Here is what came up.

Device Info: SCSI ID: 4, VENDOR:SEAGATE PRODUCT:ST11200N SUN 1.05 FIRMWARE 8808
Sense Key Info: Sense Key: 04, HARDWARE ERROR
Sense Code Info: ASC: 03, DRIVE FAULT. ASCQ: 00
Additional Info: Info: decimal 0, hex 0x00000000. THERE IS NO ADDITIONAL INFO TO REPORT ON THIS CONDITION.

Could someone please translate all this. I have HD Toolkit and Norton so any other ideas on what to run will be helpful. I've tried most of the mini apps.
Thanx.



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Total Traxx Rec. Studios
2458 Boston Post Rd
Guilford, CT 06437

angela
03-17-2001, 09:06 AM
Paul,

Not exactly sure about what this means, other than it is reporting an error, but no specific information. Try running Norton's and see what it says. What version of Nortons do you have?

parisengr
03-17-2001, 09:59 AM
I have Norton 4.0,(which I used), 3.1 and I believe I also have 3.5 somewhere. I tried all the utilities on the drive that I have and none of them will let me reformat the drive. At this point, I don't care about losing the data that the guy loaded on there for me.

********
Now the battery is not even in the computer anymore. Everytime I shut down the computer, it never powers up anymore at first try. It's not the keyboard, BTW.
I need to physically pull the plug from the back, wait 30 seconds, plug it back in then it starts. I KEEP FORGETTING TO MENTION ALSO, after I hear the startup chime once, it happens again a couple of seconds later before starting up. Maybe that's normal?? This all must mean something. I never have any problem after the unit is on, only after I shut down and try to restart.

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Total Traxx Rec. Studios
2458 Boston Post Rd
Guilford, CT 06437

parisengr
03-17-2001, 10:08 AM
Is it safe to assume that this is mot a termination or T power issue now?

SCSI BUS 1 ===>CD-ROM (id3) ====>SEAGATE (id4) ===> MAC COMPUTER (id7)====sep T.
SCS1 BUS 0 ===>CONNER (id0) ====>MAC COMPUTER (id7)

I see no jumpers where the diagrams said, just empty pins on the Seagate.
Except of course the one I installed to make the id4. Thanx.

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Total Traxx Rec. Studios
2458 Boston Post Rd
Guilford, CT 06437

kaye
03-17-2001, 04:07 PM
Paul,

Sorry, I'm working on a Gurus PTP issue that is leaving me little time for the forums.

"Is it safe to assume that this is mot a termination or T power issue now?
SCSI BUS 1 ===>CD-ROM (id3) ====>SEAGATE (id4) ===> MAC COMPUTER (id7)====sep T.
SCS1 BUS 0 ===>CONNER (id0) ====>MAC COMPUTER (id7)"

"sep T" is a terminator? And it is physically located on the SCSI ribbon cable just after the Seagate?

Go here http://www.seagate.com:80/support/disc/scsi/st11200n.html and scroll down the page until you see the description for J2 with its 8 sets of jumper pins. You want a horizontally placed jumper on the lower pins for 7 and 8 which the diagram calls Position A and identifies as Term. Power from SCSI Bus. Be sure you understand the picture orientation of the drive meaning right side up or upside down, rear end of drive left or rear end of drive right, so that you know how to install the jumper, if it is not already installed correctly.

What happens now? k

parisengr
03-17-2001, 05:10 PM
<<"sep T" is a terminator? And it is physically located on the SCSI ribbon

cable just after the Seagate?>>



YES, and the very end of the cable.



I'll let you know what happens when I try your suggestion, but if thers' a terminator at the end of the cable, does the drive itself still need to be terminated??



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Total Traxx Rec. Studios
2458 Boston Post Rd
Guilford, CT 06437

angela
03-17-2001, 05:48 PM
Kaye,

I am glad that you provided the diagram for Paul. He needs to place one jumper pin for J2 (horizontal across 7 and 8 pins) and one for J6 (vertical on 1st pin for ID 4). Paul has already put one on J6 for the ID 4, so this is done. Does he need a jumper for J5 as well? What is the purpose of the J5 connector? Does he have the option of the J6 or the J5? What is HDA?


[This message has been edited by angela (edited 17 March 2001).]

angela
03-17-2001, 05:59 PM
Paul,

I am glad to know that you used Norton's 4.0, but did you get any error messages? As for Norton's, it will not reformat the drive for you. You should you Apple Drive Setup or FWB Hard Drive Toolkit to reinitialize the drive. This will erase all that stuff that the other guy had on the drive. I would recommend Apple Drive Setup over FWB since this is a third party software and Apple OS 8.5 can't update your hard disk drivers with any software other than Apple Drive Setup. Once you open Drive Setup the Seagate should appear in the window then you can select it an initialize it. Then you pop in the OS 8.5 disk, holding down "C" to boot from the disk. Now you are ready to install the OS 8.5 on the Seagate. Just remember you need to get the jumpers placed correctly before initialzing the drive and putting a fresh copy of OS 8.5 on the Seagate.

P.S. The Sep T on the end of the SCSI cable sounds strange, you probably need a standard SCSI ribbon cable which has no terminators on it. This odd ribbon cable could be causing some problems as well.

[This message has been edited by angela (edited 17 March 2001).]

parisengr
03-17-2001, 09:44 PM
Hi-
Put the jumper where you indicated. Apple drive setup will not allow me to initialize the drive. First it sayd that the drive needs a low level format. Then when I go to do it, it starts and I get an error that the drive is too large to initialize?? It's only 1G. It says I can partition it in custom setup but when I go there, the option is greyed out. ARRRGGGHHH.


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Total Traxx Rec. Studios
2458 Boston Post Rd
Guilford, CT 06437

parisengr
03-17-2001, 10:11 PM
I also tried FWB HD Toolkit. The error message says 'Device encountered a hardware error'. I don't think anyone ever answered my question, correct me if I'm wrong, but could I have rendered this drive totally useless if I didn't have the SCSI cable all the way in when I first connected it?

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Total Traxx Rec. Studios
2458 Boston Post Rd
Guilford, CT 06437

angela
03-17-2001, 11:59 PM
Paul,

I think it would be a good idea to make sure that the SCSI cable is firmly attached to the drive, as well as the power connector to the drive. Just checking again, you do have 1 jumper pin on the J2 and done on the J6 connector? Once the SSCI ribbon is attached correctly and you have your 2 jumpers on the drive, then you can test to see if it is mounted. To do this, open up the SCSI Probe, there should be 2 columns, highlight the ID for the Seagate and in the second column, logical units, it should also be highlighted, click on the icon that has the up arrow and if mounted, it will pass this test. If the drive is not mounted, then the computer is not recognizing the drive. If the computer is not recognizing the drive, then the drive is bad or not setup correctly.

As for Drive Setup, something is weird. Both FWB and Apple Drive Setup would not allow you to initialize the drive, but you did get an error message with FWB. When you tried to initialize the Seagate, was this your start up disk or did you boot from a system's disk i.e. OS 8.5? You cant initialize from the start up disk. The best way to initialize is to boot from OS 8.5 and then run Drive Setup. Check box boxes low level format and zero all data. Try this and see what happens this time. You are right, you don't have to partition the 1 gig.

When you ran the Nortons 4.0, did it give error messages about the drive? What does Disk First Aid report about the drive? The drive could have some bad paths or forks, but if wiped clean, maybe it will work okay. If most of the utilities are giving errors, then maybe the drive is no good. So try Drive Setup one more time. If Drive Setup is acting weird again, then put OS 8.5 in and change the control panel for startup disk to OS 8.5 and reboot, holding down the "c" key. Then, try Drive Setup to what it says. Next, you can do a clean install on the Seagate which will give a new system folder on the drive and get rid of all the stuff on the drive.

There is still the option of trying the drive from the 6100...unless you feel uncomfortable with this idea.

--Angela



[This message has been edited by angela (edited 17 March 2001).]

trag
03-18-2001, 12:33 AM
Okay, if your symptom is that you must unplug the wall cord from the power supply before you can start up again, you most likely have a power supply problem. That should be easy enough to check when you get the second machine. The IIci (which has a different, but functionally similar PS) has exactly the same problem on some failing power supplies. There's a capacitor that gets weak and then the PS must be unplugged for a while before the thing will turn on.

So when you get the new machine from the Ebay seller, try swapping the PS and motherboards and I think you'll find that your problem stays with the old Power supply.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
SCSI BUS 1 ===>CD-ROM (id3) ====>SEAGATE (id4) ===> MAC COMPUTER (id7)====sep T.
SCS1 BUS 0 ===>CONNER (id0) ====>MAC COMPUTER (id7)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure if your diagram means what I think it means, so I'm going to do a little exposition. To my way of diagramming, a cable with nothing on it would look like this:

Cable: C1===C2===C3===C4===C5

Where each C is a connector and the === is cable segments. The above would be a five connector cable.

So when you posted your diagram, it looks to me like on SCSI 1, you have a pigtail of SCSI cable with nothing on C1, then a CDROM on C2, then a Seagate on C3, then C4 plugged into your Mac's motherboard, and C5 hanging after that with a separate terminator on it. I'm betting that's not what you have, but that's what your diagram says to me. And that would be a doomed configuration for a couple of reasons.

Why don't you redo your SCSI cable diagram using the above standard and tell us how many connectors are on each cable. The SCSI IDs are handy to know, so listing those are good. I notice that in your diagram you listed them in numerical order. There is no need to have the IDs in numerical order. For example, this would be a valid configuration:

SCSI 1: MAC COMPUTER (id7)===CD-ROM (id3)===C3===SEAGATE (id4) ===>sep T

So on the cable the IDs are in order 7, 3, 4 and that's perfectly all right. SCSI ID has nothing to do with the physical ordering of the devices on the cable. The only thing you need to worry about with SCSI ID is that there are no duplicates on a given bus.

It sounds like Angela has had some bad experiences with Seagate drives. Everyone's experiences are a little different, but I can personally attest that Seagate makes some of the best drives out there and has consistently for many years. The machine I'm sitting at now contains a RAID of four Barracudas. These drives are over 5 years old (yes, I'm out of date) and have given me trouble free service through three computers. Of course, they (my drives) are a bit slow by today's standards, because they're ancient in computer years.

Three things that may have contributed to Angela's experiences are that Seagate has been a major manufacturer of drives for a very long time. So there are a lot of drives out there. Few people comment when things work right, but they notice when they break. If you've got a large share of the market, of course, many of the complaints about failing devices will involve your brand, because there's so many of your drives out there.

Second, there are many sellers of drives selling ancient Seagate drives, such as the old ST32550 and ST15150 Barracudas and the boat anchor 9GB ST410800 drive. The first and last were good drives in their day (5 years ago) but they're near their end of life today. Yet there are people selling these drives to unsophisticated buyers. The ST32550 in particular puts off a lot of heat and requires some special care. My 5 year old RAID is four ST32550s but every drive has its own fan and has for the last four years. Someone trying to use one in a 6100 would probably have a very unhappy experience.

Third, every manufacturer produces the occasional turkey. I'm not familiar with the specific model that Angela mentioned, but it may have been such a drive for Seagate.

Anyway, the point is that Seagate does make good drives and there is no reason to avoid them as a class. A new Seagate drive will have an excellent multi-year warranty. The old ready to keel over drives will have expired or nearly expired Seagate warranties.

It is important to be cautious when buying a new drive though, to make sure it really is a new drive. Some of those models I mentioned above are still available "new" in the sense that they have never been used, but their design and manufacturing date are years old. The Gurus has narrow Seagates that are modern drives and do not have the heat issues that older drives have (not to mention performing worlds better).


[This message has been edited by trag (edited 17 March 2001).]

magician
03-18-2001, 07:01 AM
if I'm not mistaken, that's a very, very old drive (in computer years). It may be defective, or it may simply need to have its mode pages flashed back to defaults. There is a thread somewhere else here where one of the guys discovered his drive trying to use a 514k block size rather than 512k, for example.....it caused a helluva mess. He fixed it using Hard Disk Toolkit 4. The Configure application can "optimize" mode page settings.

that may help in this case. If not, I would just open it up and turn the platters into a nice set of wind chimes for the patio.

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

parisengr
03-18-2001, 09:15 AM
<<I think it would be a good idea to make sure that the SCSI cable is firmly attached to the drive, as well as the power connector to the drive. Just checking again, you do have 1 jumper pin on the J2 and done on the J6 connector? Once the SSCI ribbon is attached correctly and you have your 2 jumpers on the drive, then you can test to see if it is mounted. >.>

Angela-
I think you misunderstood. It was only the FIRST time when I connected the drive that the cable MAY not have been pushed in all the way. Obviously I'm more careful now, and I'm physically putting it somewhere where I can reach it
...well at least a LITTLE better.I have the J2 term power jumper on, but I had to borrow it from the J6 ID one. Don't do this a lot, so I don't have a lot of jumper pins hanging around. I realize this makes the Seagate id0 and that's OK cause I put it on the other chain so it wouldn't conflict with the Conner.

As far as SCSI probe and the mounting issue, as I said, it recognizes the drive is connected with the proper SCSI id and all but it doesn't mount.Won't let me, says it needs a low-level format, which it won't do.

<<When you tried to initialize the Seagate, was this your start up disk or did you boot from a system's disk i.e. OS 8.5?>>

No, I wish. If it doesn't mount, it can't be the startup disk.

<<What does Disk First Aid report about the drive? The drive could have some bad paths or forks, but if wiped clean, maybe it will work okay. If most of the utilities are giving errors, then maybe the drive is no good. So try Drive Setup one more time. If Drive Setup is acting weird again, then put OS 8.5 in and change the control panel for startup disk to OS 8.5 and reboot, holding down the "c" key. Then, try Drive Setup to what it says. Next, you can do a clean install on the Seagate which will give a new system folder on the drive and get rid of all the stuff on the drive.>>

Disk first aid only works on volumes, it won't mount and therefore there IS no volume. I can't do a clean install until I get it to mount. Thanx. I tried the 6100 drive in there and it works.



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Total Traxx Rec. Studios
2458 Boston Post Rd
Guilford, CT 06437

parisengr
03-18-2001, 09:59 AM
Trag-
Thanx. Well, I managed to mess up one of the connectors on SCSI bus 1. Came right out, so here's my config as of now.

SCSI 1: MAC COMPUTER (id7)===CONNER (id0)====C3(well, not anymore) ===>sep T
SCSI 0: MAC COMPUTER (id7)===C2===SEAGATE (id0)

The Conner is working as normal, the CD-ROM is out of the picture, The Seagate has term power enabled and still won't mount or let me initialize it.

I just need to determine if this drive is bad AND ALSO, was it bad when it shipped, or did my possible careless connection fry the drive??

Is this even possible? Nobody really directly addressed this. Could not have plugging the SCSI cable all the way in at one end fried the drive?

Also, I forgot to mention this- One of the pins on the end on the bottom is SLIGHTLY bent. It kind of makes a little curve (not just straight and bent cause then I could straighten it out). When I plug the SCSI cable in then take it out, the pin is in exactly the same position so I assume it's making contact or it would probably bend it worse. If you're looking at the cable/drive from the back and the red stripe is on the right, the pin is the left most one on the bottom (if that helps). Don't think it's an issue but I figured I'd mention it.

I'll poke around with what 'Magician' said and see if I can figure anything else out. If not, I guess i have to assume the drive is screwed, but I'd really like to know if I DID IT or if the SELLER sold me a bum drive. Don't feel right going back to him telling him he sold me a bad drive if I may have indeed caused it. Thanx all.




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Total Traxx Rec. Studios
2458 Boston Post Rd
Guilford, CT 06437

angela
03-18-2001, 10:21 AM
Paul,

I'm sorry, didn't mean to insult you able the cable, just trying to respond about it not being connected very well to your SCSI cable. Also, I was on a mission of" try this, try that" only to see what the drive was doing with different utilities and monitor its behavior. I figured the more things that reported some error or didn't allow the drive to be initialized or mounted would prove the case that the Seagate had been thoroughly tested. I must have had a brain fart when I was asking about the startup disk since I forgot that you had the Conner to boot up as your start up disk. So I guess its safe to say that the Conner is working properly. I do understand not having extra jumpers lying around the house. I had an extra one that fell on the carpet and it took me 2 months to accidentally find it since its so small. But you were able to work around that issue which was excellent. So, now I think its general consensus that the Seagate needs to go to the Mac graveyard? I don't say this to be insulting at all. I agree with Magician if it possible to use a hard disk repair software, maybe there is a chance for the Seagate, but it is a weak maybe, it all depends if the drive will respond to the software. It hasn't been very responsive with anything else you have tried, other than being a very uncooperative drive.

When you borrowed the drive from the 6100, did it boot up smoothly with no glitches i.e multiple chimes or delayed start up, etc.? I'm sure the other drive mounted with no problems. I forgot to ask you how your CDrom is working? Are you able to use OS and audio CDs with no problems?

You did a great job on testing!!! You hung in there and this is what is most important...you didn't have to throw the computer out the window.

P.S. Trag, you are right that Seagate did make some great products, but experience is a strong teacher. I probably did just luck up and get lemon drives. I had one old lemon and one purchased new and I got burned badly, the only good thing that I was able to retrieve important files before it quit for good.

trag
03-18-2001, 04:09 PM
Okay, in the configuration you've drawn, you need termination on the Seagate, which is different from termination power. It's good that you installed the jumper at pins 7 & 8 because that will allow termination power from the SCSI bus to the drive, which is what you want.

From the diagram that Kaye referenced, the Seagate requires termination pack resistors to be installed to enable termination. Does the Seagate have the termination resistors in place? They'd be where the ~1" long rectangles are in the diagram that Kaye supplied the URL for. There should be three of them I believe, though the diagram seems to show six.

parisengr
03-18-2001, 06:35 PM
No termination plugs at all. Does this mean all the errors I got could simply be a result of that?

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angela
03-18-2001, 10:35 PM
http://www.seagate.com:80/support/disc/iguides/scsi/hwk1gde.pdf

Refer to the manual Pages 21 and 33 which reference the resister terminator packs. Kaye had indicated earlier that they should be installed. This could be why the drive is not responding properly. It becomes a question of where do you acquire these? Campbell Tech specializes in hard to find drives, such as your model and supports them, try giving them a call 1-800-474-8399 to locate the resister packs. They can probably tell you more about what happens when they aren't installed on the drive. I hope this helps.

[This message has been edited by angela (edited 18 March 2001).]

trag
03-19-2001, 01:00 AM
I would say that regardless of whether the drive was working or not, when you bought it, it should have included the termination resistor packs, unless it was sold in some kind of AS-IS condition or some such.

But, yes, without the termination resistor packs you can't put that drive on teh end of a SCSI cable. If your cable permits, you could move it to C3 on SCSI bus 1.

[This message has been edited by trag (edited 19 March 2001).]

magician
03-19-2001, 04:02 AM
right. Generally, missing terminator packs mean the drive cannot be terminated--and an unterminated bus will not work correctly.

you can use such a drive in the middle of a bus, as long as the end of the bus is terminated by a terminator or a drive with termination enabled.

there is one exception, and I hesitate to mention it. Some drives that used termination resistors also had a pair of jumper pins in the same area. Their use varied. In some cases, they enabled or disabled the termination provided by resistor packs. In other cases.....they were a defacto replacement for the resistor packs....and toggled termination circuitry on the controller on or off. It's been a long time since I looked at drives this old, so take all this with a grain of salt.

such a drive, with missing termination resistors, would also work well in an external enclosure, where termination is handled externally by an actual terminator.

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Greentree_uk
04-07-2001, 03:53 PM
ok here's something to throw u guys

I had exactly the same problem with a st151010 seagate or somethin like that no. neway. the drive eventually buggered again it was from ebay, fortuately it was just under warranty. neway to cut to the chase I put the drive in my 6400 and it worked no problem! so I looked at termination etc and didn't seem to make a difference. anyway as a longshot since my ext cd writer is buggered I put the drive in that and low and behold it fired up first time no problem and works perfectly in the ext box. and I could plug my buggered well semi-buggered cd writer inside the 8100 case and that functioned to it;s very dodgy capability. so I never did figure out why it didn't work but in an ext drive it works a treat and it is v.fast.

that's my 2 cents

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif