View Full Version : Radeon PCI and older PowerLogix G3

01-27-2001, 02:02 AM
I just installed a Radeon PCI in my PTP 200. It looks incredable when it works. The machine is extremely unstable - usually within a few minutes of startup (if it makes it this far) it will hang or the display will shut off (monitor goes into low power mode). Force quits don't work as well as the programmers interrupt.

The machine runs a conservative 400/200 PowerLogix G3 (older board - 3 rotary switches to set speed) at bus speed of 50. There is a Miro DC 30 video capture card and a Sonnet ATA/66 card installed in the PCI slots as well as the Radeon.

The machine was very stable before. As soon as the card was in, the problems started. It seems any of the ATI extensions make no difference whether loaded or not. No extensions loaded seems more stable, though. I wonder if it has to do with the cache being enabled?

I did a clean install of OS 9.0.4 after the troubles started, installed the ATI stuff. Seems I'm back where I started.

I realize the Radeon is just released as well as its drivers, but I think this is a hardware conflict. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated!

01-27-2001, 11:00 AM
I have a Radeon PCI that was first installed in a PTP 250 with xlr8 G3 500/250 running 540/270. I don't have the PTP at the moment, loaned out, but I only installed the Radeon PCI in slot 4 (BusMaster/Bandit slot), running OS9.0.4, and all of the ATI stuff loaded off of the CD. Worked like a charm, no problems. I did not try another slot. Before the PTP became a loaner, I removed the Radeon and reinstalled a ProFormance3+ 32MB card, so I have the Radeon here but no computer to put it in.

This is getting more wordy than I intended, but the reason I removed the Radeon is that it only works with OS9 or later, and my PTP has 7.6.1, 8.6, and 9.0.4 and the folks I loaned it to need at least 8.6 and any 9.x version.

Couple of things come to mind and I hope I am not insulting you with this. The resolution and Hz you have selected, are you sure it is supported by both your monitor and the Radeon? You can actually fry a monitor by selecting a Hz setting for a particular resolution that is not supported by your monitor. Check your monitor manual.

How much RAM do you have? You need 32MB of system memory for just for OpenGL. But the cache that allows for the bells and whistles of the Radeon should all be within its 32MB DDR onboard memory. Your monitor, Apple style and connector or VGA type/connector? If VGA monitor, is it DDC (Display Data Channel) compliant or not? If not, you must select the VGA Monitors icon in the ATI Displays control panel to select from a list of standard monitors.

Other possibilities, try changing the slot on the Radeon with slots 1 thru 3 and slots 4-6 as the dividing point. If the Miro and Sonnet cards are in 1-3, put the Radeon in 4-6. Anyway, I think you get the idea.

Try removing the inits for the Miro and the Sonnet to see if there is a conflict with the ATI stuff. To get them all to work, you may have to reorder the inits, a trial and error procedure.

Last for now, perhaps the S-Video out and Mac2TV are conflicting with your Miro. k

01-27-2001, 01:59 PM
What about heat ? If the Radeon runs hot, mabe you could try running the machine with the cover open and a big fan blowing right on the motherboard.

Mad Dog


01-27-2001, 04:15 PM
Also, you might try all the ATI drivers and libraries from Apple's Open GL 1.2.1. There are newer than the ones that came with Radeon. I'm using them in a 500 MHz PTP.

01-27-2001, 05:53 PM
As far as slots go, I previously tried running the Radeon in 1A (with the Miro and Sonnet in 2E and 2D, respectively). This made no difference. On the reccommendation of a friend, I pulled the Miro altogether. Seems to have worked, yet I am also running with the cover removed. I did get one freeze earlier, but it seems more stable... only time can tell.

The Radeon came with OpenGL 1.2.1, but thanks anyway.

The monitor is a Sun fixed frequency 20", at 1152*870, 75Hz. This is supported by MacOS and the Radeon, but I have quite a dongle in place to get it to work.

[This message has been edited by jcordt (edited 27 January 2001).]

01-28-2001, 01:41 AM
The problem resides with the drivers after all. If I load all but the ATI drivers, the system is fine. The Miro card is back in and the machine runs great as it did before the ATI drivers. Conversly, if only the ATI drivers are loaded, the machine becomes unstable.

01-28-2001, 01:58 AM
Sure you checked the version numbers of all the ATI files in The Apple download of OpenGL 1.2.1 against what ATI issued on the CD. ATI is usually behind on what they give retail card customers.

01-28-2001, 02:13 AM
right. Just carefully consider what revisions you are using. I believe we have the latest Radeon installer on our FTP site....and I have heard rumors that an update is imminent.

[This message has been edited by magician (edited 28 January 2001).]

01-28-2001, 04:03 AM
I checked with my best friend, Tim, who is a monster programer for the dark side )windoze) and asked him if ATI writes such shitty drivers for that platform as well.

Turns out the answer is YES.

So, at least we k now that ATI is not singling us out by not putting proper resources into Mac development. They simply suck at writing software.


(If anyone from ATI reads this, I mean all I say in the good way.)

01-28-2001, 10:30 AM
Well I can only say that I have no problems with my Radeon PCI, but I don't have the Miro and Sonnet cards, nor another ATI card.

But, careful about the ATI Radeon drivers on the ftp site. It is version 1.0 and only for the AGP card. My installer CD installs version 1.1 which is for both AGP and PCI and installs the Apple OpenGL 1.2.1 as well as the latest drivers for the Radeon (AGP or PCI) plus other drivers to support other ATI video cards. These are all of the latest drivers.

This is what ATI says:

RADEON MAC EDITION MacOS 9 Display Drivers
Technical Support Driver Download - RECOMMENDED
* RADEON Driver 1.00 (supports AGP versions only)
* This driver package contains the same software that appears on the first RADEON MAC EDITION Installation CD (version 100, p/n 180-G01090-100).
ATI Installation CD
* RADEON MAC EDITION Installation CD 180-G01090-100 (version 100, supports AGP versions only)
* RADEON MAC EDITION Installation CD 180-G01090-110 (version 110, supports both PCI and AGP versions)
I have the version 110 CD which has the Radeon 1.1 installer.

Worked like a champ. Louie, at this point I just can't prove that Apple OpenGL 1.2.1 which the installer installs is exactly the same as Apple's OpenGL 1.2.1 because it is on the PTP. I may try it on the S900. Am on my NuBus Mac now. But I had no trouble with the Radeon PCI. And the installer worked perfectly for me. k

01-28-2001, 03:36 PM
I have the v 110 CD, which is what I installed off of in the first place. I downloaded Apple's OpenGL 1.2.1 and installed it - the machine crashes when the first ATI driver loads - "Illegal Instruction" - won't even get passed boot.

Checking more closely, Apple's OpenGL installer comes with all but one of the drivers supplied on the ATI CD (this is in addition to OpenGL). Yet, all of the ATI-supplied drivers are more recent than those from Apple.

01-28-2001, 03:52 PM
k, can you do me a favor and upload that installer onto the FTP site?


01-29-2001, 12:08 PM

Radeon 1.1 is in the uploads folder on the ftp site. That was a learning curve for me, have never used Interarchy before. k

01-29-2001, 07:52 PM
thanks, K! I moved it into the ATI directory.

welcome to Interarchy! I use it daily. It rates me as a Net Assassin.


[This message has been edited by magician (edited 29 January 2001).]

01-29-2001, 09:39 PM

Since you are an Interarchy novice, I'll tell you that it keeps track of your MB's of transfers and gives you a rating in the "about Interarchy".

01-30-2001, 12:39 AM
Thanks Louie, I'll look for that. k

01-30-2001, 03:57 PM
dookie would like to go on the record as saying that the rating in the Anarchie/Interarchy About... box is FAR more important than one's connection bandwidth in terms of geek-lord-ness. A rating of "Net Terrorist" or the ever-coveted "Net Assassin" comes only after the transfer of hundreds of megabytes of data.

I, too, am a Net Assassin.

01-31-2001, 12:56 AM
it's taken me five years of constant, daily use of Anarchie/Interarchy to attain Net Assassin status. That, and taking care to never nuke the Anarchie/Interarchy preferences.


01-31-2001, 10:42 AM
Wow, I didn't EVER see that there was a rating for interarchie!!

I am a Net Ninja (1.35GB)... (above or below the Net Assassin? What the the rating for Assassin,... Gotta have Goals in Life!!)

Although this may be a very unfair rating since I usually use FTP to transfer on the LAN between PC's (running the FTP) and My Mac...


01-31-2001, 06:58 PM
hmmm....Interarchy reports that I have used it to transfer 966.1MB.


01-31-2001, 10:31 PM
Hmm, I'm already up to 639 MB since June and I've upgraded twice during that time. But, maybe it kept the old prefs.

01-31-2001, 11:41 PM
as long as you don't nuke the old prefs, it grabs the old ones and updates the net rating.


02-01-2001, 03:06 AM
Yikes... Lookes ad my post and hope I didn't offend anyone with the car thing!

Anyway, I guess at the 2GB level with interarchie you become the ever feared NET TERMINATOR.... :-)


[This message has been edited by EGPoulin (edited 01 February 2001).]

[This message has been edited by EGPoulin (edited 01 February 2001).]

02-04-2001, 12:18 AM
I think net ninja comes after 1 gig...i was net assasin freakin forever...actually i got to net assasin a couple times...of course downloading the 9.1 upgrade 4 times (dont ask) probably helped at 76 mb per download.

02-04-2001, 12:21 AM
woo hoo! I am a full fledged member now! No more junior member for me!

/^8^\ . o O (Maybe one day I can be a macguru...)

02-04-2001, 03:34 AM
If its of any interest, ATI posted the latest revision for the Radeon drivers, v. 1.1.1, available at their site. Seems to be working, too. Great to be back in business!

John http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

02-04-2001, 04:43 AM
they are also now on our FTP site.