View Full Version : HELP!!...Deleware, we have a problem..

12-09-2000, 03:44 AM
Dave here. Well, opened up the PTP, cleaned out the power supply and fans.. pretty furry. Put in the gifted CD-RW, CD-DVD SpeedT's, Toast,
Went to copy some files and got a toast message, "connection unstable, if SCSI check connections or SCSI cable." Or something close to that.

Okay, well, I have a nice teflon cable, I'll put it in.

I pulled the jumper for enable term, pulled the jumper for term power (same on CD), plugged it all in, put my terminator on. Rebooted, one chime, but no boot.

My SCSIvue lights as follows REQ, SEL, and TRM, all lit solid. ACK no light or activity, machine just sits there with the other 3 lights lit up.

The current ID allocation worked before I put the granite ribbon in, so it's not the SCSI ID's.

Does the SCSIVue 510-471-6442 need term power via jumper from the drive? I didn't think it did. SCSI config from MOBO is: Seagate medalist--Yamaha CD-RW--Granite SCSIVue terminator & external SCSI monitor.

One more scary deal guys....the CPU upgrade in this box is a force fit. Poorly designed. These hurky green little knobs on the daughter card flex the card and processer slot to the side in order to make the inner drive enclosure fit. I moved it out of the way in order to get at the one mounting screw, and it gave me the willys making it fit back again. I'm hoping I haven't broken one of the solder joints on the underside of the MOBO.

Any help you guys can give me would sure be a help.


12-09-2000, 03:46 AM
Magician, sorry about the extra e in Delaware. http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

12-09-2000, 04:11 AM
Thread update.

I pulled the molex and the centronics plug out of the drive and put a bootable cd in the CD drive in hopes that there PRAM now included a CD boot command. Got the classic floppy w/? mark.

Tell me this means my MOBO is okay?

I'll wait for feedback till I proceed.


12-09-2000, 05:14 AM
Sorry guy's. I'm using your forum as a hardware self encounter.

I just couldn't leave this thing alone.

Decided to leave the teflon ribbon, pull the SCSIVue, and re-enable the HD termination at the end of the chain.

Bingo!!! I'm updating this thread from my PTP. So now the question is....

Can you determine from the previous posts if it's something I did?....or is the SCSIVue defective?

Is there any termination/SCSI noise reason not to use the teflon cable, HD termination, and leave off the SCSIVue?

Please advise.

(thanks again for the couch)

12-09-2000, 07:45 AM
hmmm....in this case, if you are using a Granite terminator at the end of a 50-pin Centronics bus on a Granite custom 50-pin internal Teflon ribbon (the Ferrari of IDC cables), you want all devices to draw term power (TP) from the bus, as the Granite terminator will generate plenty of juice to power the bus.

have you verified that the terminator is viable separately? It could be defective. It is rare, but I've seen a Granite terminator turn up defective maybe three times in the past five years out of thousands sold. A great RMA rate, yes, but like Ronnie Reagan used to say: "trust, but verify."

I would doublecheck it. Don't even hesitate to exchange it, either with us or with Granite. It is warranted for life.


12-09-2000, 02:58 PM
Hi M., thanks. On the config page for the drive in question (yes, seagate web support rocks) here: http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/scsi/st34520n.html

it states that: "Term Pow jumper(s) must always be in one of the comfigurations shown, even if TE jumper is not installed."

Magician, would you take a look at the link and advise which (if any) of the TP jumper settings would be applicable. If your knowledgebase suggests no jumpers on any of the TP settings, then the SCSIVue must be anomalous.

Sensei(s), may I presume by the "N" at the end of the seagate model number, that this is a NARROW drive?



p.s., the granite cable did take care of the poor connection error message in Toast. It may be pricey for a 10Mb bus, but I won't have to worry about it again, and obviously the PVC ribbon was trashed. Not to mention the fact that since I'm going to be burning CD's on this bus, data integrity needs to be without reproach

12-09-2000, 04:05 PM
Yes "N" means Narrow. And, one one the three choices for termination power must be made even though the drive is not terminated. For Macs it should be "Termination Power From The SCSI Bus". For a narrow Seagate that is a jumper horizontally across the lower pins "TP" and "TP".

12-09-2000, 04:08 PM

Easy one first. Yes, the drive is Narrow. 50-pin drives are narrow. 68 pin drives are wide. Easy enough. (Gosh, I hope that's all there is to it)

As far as jumpers? Try putting the jumper to take power from the SCSI bus. Let's see what Magician has to say...

PS-had to edit...had a brain contusion...I'm OK now.

[This message has been edited by Dogstarman (edited 09 December 2000).]

12-10-2000, 02:57 AM
Hi Louie and D.Starman....thanks fer bein there

Magician must be AFGR (Absent For Good Reason).

Yes Louie, I've tried that, and the only way I can get this drive to boot is to revert back to the original settings; Enable Term, and; Drive takes term power from SCSI bus. It's hard for me to believe that the SCSIvue is anomalous, but I sure can't make it work.

http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/question.gif Other than better hardware is better, is there any reason I should fear using this Granite teflon ribbon with conventional termination?

I just got through kissing a copy of final cut pro goodbye ($1000.00). It was on the drive in this beast (PTP) when I got it, and this thing has been throwing me fits it has so much (pardon me!) SHIT on it. There was 208 extensions in the Sys. folder. So, feel free to tell me Final Cut Pro has severe install keying, and then don't tell me whether it's true or not!

I got sick of working with all the choppiness of the system, so I just low leveled and zeroed the damn drive and went to dinner. Man, this narrow S.G. Medalist drive is frigging scary it's so noisy. When it's working, it sounds like it's scraping accross the platters.

Well, it's been a mind numbing weekend so far.

Time to down load Miles stuff from ftp and get my LVD over to the PTP.

Louie, et al....Is there anything you should remind me of before I do this swap? (What are those easy to forget things, after you've spent a couple of days going through a box till the wee hours?)

It is helpful even knowing you guys are all out there some where for help. Kinda chokes me up. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

Thoughts on traditional term on granite teflon?

Best to ALL you guys,


12-10-2000, 01:14 PM
I am here. No problem using standard term on Granite Teflon.

keep in mind that you could have overterminated, as well. Even a Granite terminator can't compensate if you have too many devices terminated on a bus.

Keep an eye on that Medalist. If you hear stuff scraping...that's not good.

If it survives a low-level format, however, you can probably assume that the drive is viable. A low-level format is one of the most stringent things you can do to a drive, and it is a valid diagnostic measure in its own right.

12-10-2000, 02:31 PM
I would get all these early problems squared away before complicating matters by adding the LVD goodies.

If that drive is a Medalist Pro (UltraNarrow), they are very noisy when busy ( clickety-click).

12-11-2000, 03:10 AM
Thanks guys. Well, I haven't killed any hardware yet. Well, almost.

But I do have some questions.

Broke down and bought OS 9.0, and will be downloading the update and installing it shortly.

Nuked all existing OS's, did clean install(s) on the 2 drives. Miles bus and internal Medalist.

Tried putting a 64Mb stick in this baby with the other sticks, and crashed w/various "finder" codes under all variations of startup. I was rather upset...I tend a bit much to tinker with my machine(s) like a pit bull, once on it, I don't want to let go. I am beginning to wonder if that has always been an EDO DIMM. I bought it from somewhere besides you guys awhile ago. Is it possible my powercurve could have run with that thing all this time? I am aware that EDO is trouble in these machines.

Anyway, the machine ran before, so I yanked the stick and sure enough the machine booted again. Because of the harsh crashes, I did ANOTHER clean install.

Here is the WEIRD THING, for the heck of it, I booted off the D.Warrior 2.0 CD and checked the drives. DW found 900+ things (12%) out of place on the LVD Cheetah and over 2000 out of place (25%) on the medalist.

What's up with that? I mean there's almost nothing beyond vanilla in these Sys folders.

http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/question.gif Do you guys have drives that Disk Warrior routinely finds NOTHING out of place with? Is Disk Warrior that picky about how things look?

I don't know for sure but I think this CPU upgrade is a Newer Tech. COuld it be causing all this shit?

I must admit guys, I like to tinker, but I sure seem to be having a hard time getting a stable machine. What's your bench rate per hour Magician?

Any help with the above questions and inquiries would be much appreciated.



12-11-2000, 03:14 AM
Oh yeah, Magician, quintuple checked the Int SCSI chain, even took the drive off and only had the 2 non-term CD drives on the chain, put SCSIvue on and no CD drives, although it did boot off the PCI SCSI.

What little grey matter I have is shriveled like a raison. (Yeah, that's why my speeling is degrading over time. That's it, sure.)


12-11-2000, 04:28 AM

>>Here is the WEIRD THING, for the heck of it, I booted off the D.Warrior 2.0 CD and checked the drives. DW found 900+ things (12%) out of place on the LVD Cheetah and over 2000 out of place (25%) on the medalist.

I have never ever had results like that. At most two. That has to be a record, one that I know you would rather not be the author of.

What I have routinely seen after a clean install of an OS is that Norton's Speed Disk finds the resultant files scattered all over the partition but DW finds nothing. Nor does Disk Doctor except for a few bundle bit problems.

Something seriously wrong as I'm sure you have already concluded. k

12-11-2000, 06:07 AM
Hi Kaye. You're right. I'm not thrilled to be the author of this. But alas, it is true.

Yes, something is seriously wrong alright. I must admit, I'm getting pretty discouraged.

I can't use software that is downloaded, because I don't know if it's currupted.

A couple of things I know for sure....

I'm running OS 9.0, and I need to not be in 9.04, and I suspect the software for the daughtercard/accelerator is not the right software.

I also don't have enough memory, since I either killed a 64Mb chip, or who knows what.

Maybe I need to sell a couple of vintage macs and buy an iTRASH used or something.

I'm sure I need to walk away from this for awhile, but I need a computer. I had an unstable PowerCurve and now I have a more unstable PTP.

Maybe I should look for a geek in the Mac Users Group here in town.

Oh well. I have some questions I need help with, so I'll post them to another thread.



12-11-2000, 06:08 AM
I meant in 9.04. Yada yada.


12-11-2000, 03:18 PM
Finding a bunch of directories out of order is not a major problem; it could come from copying the system from another drive. Major problem will be listed under "Details".

Are you copying the porked files from the older machine that we heard about earlier? I hope not!

12-11-2000, 04:29 PM
unfortunately, I can't do any bench work in December, as it is the holiday season and we kill ourselves processing orders. January starts with MacWorld, and then we have to deal with all the returns and exchanges from December.

things don't generally slow down until late Feb, as folks are still spending their Christmas money. March is when we get back into heavy bench work again.

believe it or not, this is one of the reasons why we reinvented ourselves from a consulting firm to an internet retail sales firm: folks with florfed machines who need them up immediately. It is very stressful, hard work. I am too old to do it anymore.


Dave, back up. Start simple. Make sure that you have the latest revisions of all required drivers, and yes, I mean for that daughtercard. In the PowerTower Pro, you MUST use FPM DIMMs. Make sure you have at least one good one. Pull the logic board cache, and test your power supply and battery.

get the machine working with a minimal configuration of a drive and a CD-ROM, and then build from there. If you are clear in your description of problems, and list them in short, sweet posts, I can swoop in and help. If it is tough to figure out what's going on, it is too easy for me to get distracted and miss something.

hang in there, folks! Christmas just comes once a year!


12-11-2000, 08:33 PM
You guys, thanks for your support. God knows I need it, my head really hurts.

Louie asked "Are you copying the porked files from the older machine that we heard about earlier? I hope not!"

No and yes. The only files on the Medalist drive were put there during a clean install of OS 9.0, and that was the volume that had 25% misplaced directory items. I have not reformatted the cheetah, so most of my files are still there. So, I didn't really copy them, but they are "migrated".

Although, your question brings me to another intresting question. Why/how would doing a clean install cause so many file directories to be out of place? ----> Which brings us to Magicians advice.

I did favor the original Teac CD-ROM during all installations. Could it be causing all this? Maybe. I'll go get a multi-tester, and check the power and battery. If that is okay at all the Molex leads, then I'll try another install off the NEW CD-RW. Somehow, correct or not, I had a flash..."the old CD-ROM miswriting?" I'll check it out.

I finally got a hold of the seller, and he said it is a Newer card. oh boy.

When I used the Newer software that was on the machine, the machine would error code out if I launched the Newer control panel.

Magician, thanks for the offer to "swoop in" as I trouble shoot. I'll take you up on that. I only have one machine at home, so that makes it pretty interesting, but I'll keep you as up to date as I can.

It is a fact I need to do better so far as backup and redundancy. I am advised.

Thanks guys,


"Mmmm, those crow pies are tasty....specially when it's cold and almost Christmas. Yum yum"!!!!

12-11-2000, 10:54 PM

Power supply output, 6v and 12v

Battery 3.6v

Had no luck with driver for daughtercard, I'll scrounge and report back.

Muchos Grasias


12-12-2000, 01:15 AM

Seem to have the daughtercard stabilized w/L2 working.

Now I'll just wait till the seller ships the new PTP with more buffered FPM DIMMs.

I think I'll pass on the possible mobo daughtercard slot problems in this one. I want to get my xlr8 g3/400 without more complications.

Thanks in big bunches for your support!!!


p.s. Anyone heard from darin lately?

12-12-2000, 03:04 AM
that's odd....I have NOT heard from darin in several days.

we may need to send someone up to Boston to see if there are any odd stenches emanating from his apartment.

maybe his little doggie is eating him.

12-12-2000, 04:13 AM
I am alive and well... okay.


Still, you better send someone like porn Star Janine to see if I'm alright. Just in case.

I went to an art show tonight. The artist? Tony Bennett. I talked with him for about five minutes, gave him a copy of my CD and then was introduced to his road manger. I spent a while talking to this very cool cat. I sure hope I hear from him. I basically told him that while I know they must get inundated with these kinds of things, I'm not only carrying the torch for the Great American Songbook, but am also the real deal. Man, I just need one little break like this.

I'll be posting the picture of Tony and I on my site as soon as I get the pix back.

What was especially cool was the fact that while talking to Tony's manager, several people came up to me an asked if I was me. It turned out that I was, in fact, me, so I got that going for me, which is nice. However, in a typical example of Darin luck, I met this BEAUTIFUL girl from Europe. Really classy knockout. I chatted her up a bit and then later asked a mutual friend if she was available. Well, it seems that I'd have a real tough time on my hands getting this one. She's dating THE SON OF THE SHAH OF IRAN! Not sure if I can compete with the lavishing of gifts.

I tell ya... if I become famous, I will wear fame like a custom tailored suit. I'm built better for public than private.

All in all, I must say that this whole "leaving the house" thing is not to bad.

[This message has been edited by darin (edited 12 December 2000).]

12-12-2000, 04:32 AM
Darin, you are an inspiration to....well.....guys like me.

I'm also almost out of dog and cat food, dried beans, moose jerkey....and clean underwear....so NOW we have a blizzard. Go figure.

I'll have to try leaving the house sometime soon.

Your venture forth tonight sounds really good.......(and to think it all re-started with a catostrophic loss of data) I hope you do hear from that connection.

It's good to hear from/about you, as always. Just don't forget about your compatriots here in "The Forum" when you become famous.

Best to you and the "little killer". What ever did become of your rodentia?


12-12-2000, 05:02 PM
I know a guy whose girlfriend's sister is going out with a dude who says his garbage man knows on good authority that the son of the Shah is, uh, "under-equipped."

I'd say you have a great shot. Go for it. She needs some of that American Male stuff. Tell her you read "Maxim," and particularly the "How to Make Your Partner See God" articles.

That should do it.

12-12-2000, 05:06 PM
Magician, I rest my case.........