View Full Version : 7100/66AV

09-28-2000, 09:19 PM
I acquired this machine because the motherboard is shot, can't see anything when hooked up to a monitor, the computer doesn't do anything. I want to put a Sonnet G3 upgrade into it. From the reading I have done on the web, you have to install the software first before putting in the new processor, how can I do that being I can't see anything? Can I put in the processor before the software? what should I do? HELP!!

09-28-2000, 09:42 PM
Ummm - sounds like you have a bigger problem than whether you can install the Sonnet card in it...If the motherboard is shot, then I suspect that you can't do much more than salvage parts from it (I could be wrong - someone might suggest a possible fix)

Does the machine even chime when you start it up? Does the HD spin? Does the CD-ROM make noise?...

09-29-2000, 12:57 AM
You can put the processor in before the software but it won't do any good because the machine starts the boot process off of the motherboard processor until the Crescendo extension loads, which then disables the motherboard processor and enables the PDS slot G3 card.

Question and comment. Is there anything presently in the PDS slot? HPV card? Check all cards firmly seated. If nothing is happening at all, try changing the PRAM battery. The 7100/66 will not boot with a flat battery. A no-load voltage test of the battery will not tell you if the battery is capable of starting the computer. Second, if you have only been trying to startup with the keyboard power key, check the ADB connections.

Also try another keyboard. Sometimes that power key gets internally stuck in an intermediate position and it will never start nor will it start by any means if the key is stuck in another position. The key will generally pop up but internally the switch position may not be right.

Let us know your results as well as answers to ChrisYip's questions. His questions are important to the troubleshooting. k

09-29-2000, 08:30 AM
Speaking of batteries - I had a Pentium Pro 200 machine in our lab suddenly stop talking to its data acquisition cards. Most baffling until we rebooted the machine and noticed that the date/time were reset to 1990. We pulled the motherboard battery and it was pretty much shot. Put a new one in and then we had to hit the F1 key to enter the system BIOS, reserve a pile of IRQ's so the cards are recognized and accessible, etc. - whew - was worried for a second - a $5 battery keeps a $250,000 machine running...


09-29-2000, 10:21 AM
that machine cost a quarter-mil?

holy canoli.

what does it do?

09-29-2000, 12:25 PM
In reply to ChrisYip's questions, it makes noise when starting up, but doesn't chime. Being nothing shows up on any monitor, could it be a problem with the video card? I am dumb when it comes to troubleshooting, so any help will be much appreciated! Any suggestions?

09-29-2000, 12:46 PM
OK, the machine is powering up. Am wondering if you even have a ROM card. Go here http://www.macgurus.com/shoppingcart/obj_show_page.cgi?mbppc7100.html and look at the diagram for the ROM card slot location and the L2 Cache slot location. Note that though the slots are marked which card goes in which slot on the diagram and on your motherboard, the slots are identical, AND the cards can be installed in either slot and still work fine. BUT, if you do not have a ROM card installed in either slot, it will never boot. Let us know. k

09-29-2000, 02:16 PM

actually we have 3 of those $250K machines in our lab. Our days are spent poking, pushing and pulling molecules around using what are known as scanning probe microscopes.. suffice it to say that for us 10's of microns is HUGE for us <grin>...

check out http://bigten.ibme.utoronto.ca.


09-29-2000, 02:17 PM
that machine has logic board memory.

pull all memory, and see if you get a chime. If you do, you made a leap forward in your diagnosis.

remember that memory must be installed in matched pairs in the 7100!

09-29-2000, 02:22 PM
damn, Chris.

have you read The White Plague by Frank Herbert?

just curious.


09-29-2000, 02:39 PM
Microns and 7100's; what a mix!

09-29-2000, 03:28 PM
I talked to the party who previously had this machine and he said that it was gradually developing a black monitor until at last it wouldn't display anything on a monitor at all. He would jiggle cords until the picture would show up, but the last it wouldn't display a pic on any monitor he tried. I hope this is a help?!? I will look inside and see if there is any memory to try and pull. Otherwise, any help from this info will be great!!

09-29-2000, 05:13 PM

haven't read the White Plague - but did read Dune a while ago - the movie was.. well...ummmm...interesting.

--- back to the 7100 --- we have the exact same model in the lab now and we popped in a Crescendo card a few weeks ago.

You mentioned a video card - are you using the onboard video or a actual separate card?. Maybe the card is blown but the onboard is good? - I know I've blown up an Nubus Ethernet board (inadvertantly)....


09-29-2000, 10:03 PM
Dune the movie was probably one of the best looking sci fi movies ever. lynch's vision of a neo-medieval thechnology was brilliant. actually it was amazing that he even attempted to make a 2hour movie out of one of the most involved and complex novels of all time. can't say he succeeded but it sue looked good and some scenes were brilliant. though sting was miserably miscast.


09-30-2000, 12:57 AM
don't even get me started on the Dune books and the movie. Probably my faves of all time, seriously.

Chris brings up an excellent point...there are two video subsystems on the 7100, and it could be as simple as switching from one to the other, or even reseating VRAM on the logic board or the HPV card. The AV card, if that is installed, is of course not upgradable.

09-30-2000, 08:46 AM
the first book was a masterpiece of political intrigue and overall storytelling. the second book was not as good and they got progressively worse after that. very few writers have ever successfully managed to sustain that kind of writing over a whole series.

if you love gripping, complicated books with a universe spanning scope,m deep insight into the human experience, and a generous dollop of numor to boot, read Ian M Banks. any of his books are great! (he also writes mainstream fiction. check out 'the wasps') i recommend them highly especially the those based on the 'culture'.


09-30-2000, 12:20 PM
Re: sci-fi - I loved reading RingWorld by Niven..

09-30-2000, 02:26 PM
I am in the middle of a Niven extravaganza right now.

My favorite Dune book was not even the first--it was the last.

They are all very different, but the cool thing about them is that they each peel another layer off the onion of the Dune universe. And that's why I enjoyed them so much. It is a huge opus. I wish Herbert had lived another 100 years!

I did read House Atriedes, and have a preorder in-place with Amazon for House Harkonnen. I didn't mind House A at all. In fact, I read it twice.

Sci-Fi, the TV channel, is releasing a remake of the Dune movie. I liked Lynch's attempt, but hated the ending. It was long, but I didn't mind it at all. I wish it hadn't deviated from the book so much, but it is still on the Summer List of Must See Movies for my son and I.

10-01-2000, 10:25 PM
Hmmm - was paddling through some sites today and found the following:

Never run a 7100, 8100, 8150, 9100, or 9150 without a PDS video card or a PDS
terminator. This can damage the motherboard. If the video card goes bad, you
can replace it with another video card or use motherboard video after installing a PDS accelerator or "Apple Terminator, PDS, WGS 81XX." Apple TIL 15354.

This was posted on the "LowEnd Mac" site.. Now - I'm pretty sure that until I put in the Crescendo card, my 7100's PDS slot was unoccupied and the machine was working well so...?

10-01-2000, 11:55 PM

Everything said there is true, but I believe it to be a long term thing. Something should be in the PDS slot for proper motherboard termination, an HPV card or AV card or PDS G3/G4 card or the terminator which is only about 1" tall. But I have left the PDS slot empty for short periods of time with no problem. Long term, I would want something in the PDS slot. And, of course, YMMV. k

10-02-2000, 04:31 AM
I read that TIL article a long, long time ago, and understood as well that the logic board PDS slot needed to be terminated. Power Computing did include PDS terminators in some machines which shipped without HPV or AV cards, as did Apple NuBus servers of that era.

10-02-2000, 07:33 AM
Any more scoopage on "catplastic"'s 7100 problem? - was it the video? or something more nefarious going on inside that machine?.

In the realm of perpetual energy - the IIsi that I bought way back in 1991 (or 92) is still working away w/ the original PRAM battery... and I still have a old Mac grey scale full page portait monitor (the odd rectangularly shaped ones) working away on my server..

10-02-2000, 02:05 PM
For some reason, I don't know why, the Power Computing PDS terminator looks different than the Apple PDS terminator out of an 8100. k

10-02-2000, 03:03 PM

that gives me pause. I thought those parts were interchangeable. Maybe they are....but then, maybe they aren't.

10-02-2000, 03:42 PM
A few years ago I called Radius Vintage Tech Support, back when they were still selling parts for the Radius 81/110 NuBus. Asked whether they had a PDS terminator I could purchase. Yes they did. I asked whether it would work in a Power 120. Long pause, put me on hold, answer was do not put their terminator in a Power 120. I never did ask him if the Radius terminator was the same as an Apple terminator. k

10-03-2000, 02:05 AM

thanks for the tip.

10-03-2000, 03:09 PM
Start with replacing the pds terminator???

10-03-2000, 05:24 PM

No, no, no... You have to understand that frequently on these forum threads we get sidetracked. It doesn't make for a clear thread for you to troubleshoot, but sometimes it causes other issues to surface and then we get sidetracked. Back on Sept 29, I gave you a link to a picture of your motherboard so that you could see whether your ROM and L2 Cache slots have cards in them or are empty. A couple of posts later, magician suggested pulling your memory, which is a frequent cause of problems. Have you looked into these issues? Let us know and we will get back on topic. k

10-04-2000, 01:49 PM
Here's the scoop: The L2 cache slot it empty, there's a card in the ROM slot
I pulled the memory out. I plugged it into a different keyboard and monitor,
It doesn't chime or sound like the HD is spinning, just the noise that it has
been turned on. What's next? Put the ROM card in the L2 cache slot? Any

10-04-2000, 03:21 PM
Should I go ahead and replace the pram battery?

10-04-2000, 03:46 PM
A fresh PRAM battery may not cure things, but it is the simplist, cheapest possibility and the logical next step.

10-04-2000, 05:45 PM
Radio Shack has the PRAM battery, #23-026, $10. Make sure you note which end is +, because, if I recall correctly, the battery holder is difficult to see inside on your machine where it shows the correct orientation. Also the battery holder has a cover (if it is there) with a rectangular hole in the top. Grab the cover end-to-end and squeeze lightly and pull one end up which should release the cover. Now you can dig out the battery.

Can you describe the ROM card to me? Go here and tell me if it looks like this (ROM) http://www.sur-tech.com/cgi/page?item,m341-0741 or does it look like this http://www.sur-tech.com/cgi/page?item,s256kc-14mac (L2 Cache)

If it looks like the L2 Cache, then you need a ROM card. If it looks like the ROM card, the machine will boot without an L2 Cache card. Let us know. k

10-04-2000, 08:02 PM
definitely replace the battery. Make sure the battery is kicking out a hard 3.6v.

also, check your power supply. If you are not getting 5v off one lead, and 12v off the other, steady, then you may have a failing power supply.

10-05-2000, 02:57 PM
It has the L2 Cache card not the ROM card. I got a new battery and will test the machine later today to see if that was the answer. I will let you know. Even so, do you think I should get a ROM card?

10-05-2000, 04:14 PM
It won't run without a ROM module.

10-05-2000, 04:19 PM

The machine will never work without a ROM card. Go to the link I gave for the ROM card and purchase it. It is the only way the machine will work. Forget testing with the battery now. Just put it in for now. Understand that ROM cards for old machines are hard to find and Sur-Techs prices are very good. So don't shop around. Just make sure you purchase the right ROM card. Now there may be other problems with the 7100 but we will never know until you get that ROM card installed. Once you are sure of the orientation, it will take a very firm push on the top of the card at both ends to get the card all the way into the slot.

Be sure that you have a 7100/66AV and not a 7100/80 because the ROM cards for those machines are different. If it says 7100/66AV or 7100/66 on the front or back, that should be good enough. k

[This message has been edited by kaye (edited 05 October 2000).]

10-06-2000, 12:49 PM
I sent for the ROM card, so will be anxious to get it, then cross my fingers
upon starting!! I can't believe someone would take out that card!! They must have needed it for their own computer!!

10-06-2000, 01:22 PM
Maybe thought that it was the L2 cache card, but I too wonder. Anyway, because those two slots never get used, they are extremely resistant to installing or removing those cards. I read once where a guy could only remove one of the cards with pliers pulling up slightly at one end and then rocking the card up slightly at both ends until it came out. I don't recommend this but just to be absolutely sure that the L2 Cache card is also not a problem, I would like for you to remove it and blow the dust out of both slots. When the ROM card arrives, put it in the ROM slot (though it can be put in either of the slots) and leave the L2 Cache card removed for the moment. It is not necessary for boot.

See if the machine boots. If OK, shutdown and install the L2 Cache card in its slot and startup. See if OK.

Last, remember to ground yourself before putting your fingers on any of the motherboard or cards. And frequently ground yourself, I count to 15 when doing so. k

10-06-2000, 03:51 PM
those slots will probably be very, very stiff, too, so make sure that you are pushing down very firmly to ensure that you are fully seating the ROM and cache SIMMs.

you will certainly need to press down hard enough that your logic board will flex beneath the pressure.

10-10-2000, 07:56 PM
I grounded myself first, of course, then cleaned out the slots. I took
out the L2 cache card and put in the ROM card in its proper slot. I
plugged in a monitor, started it from the back of the machine ( I didn't
have a keyboard handy). It didn't chime, just made an initial running
sound,which was the CD rom. It is just like it was before, no
monitor view, no chime, no constant running like they do when booting up.
What next????

10-10-2000, 09:03 PM
I assume you've already replaced the battery, right. And, you checked the voltages at the power connectors, right?

Here's something you could try: disconnect the HD and CD player; both power and SCSI ribbon. Try a start. If the logic board and video are working, you will get the chimes and finally a blinking question mark on the screen because it can't find a drive.

10-11-2000, 03:17 PM
I undid the HD and cd player, nothing when started, just the fan running.I didn't even bother hooking a monitor up to it.

10-11-2000, 03:41 PM
Do you think I need a new motherboard??? Is it worth fixing up??

10-11-2000, 04:22 PM
Did you ever check the power supply with a voltmeter?

Personally, it would not be worth fixing, but knowing me, I'd probably do it anyway.

A logic board would be cheap on eBay. You can buy a G3 card for it.

And, they make great Linux boxes as is.

10-12-2000, 05:30 PM
O.k. here's the scoop-I tested the volts and the power supply seems to be fine,
coming to the conclusion that it must be a bad motherboard.it has been suggested by a few of your technicians that I have two options:
either plunk some money into it and get a motherboard or junk it.Any other ideas that it could be, let me know.
I am taking a survey, so let me know what you would do with it. I will tally the votes and make my final decision from your ideas.

10-12-2000, 09:21 PM
Hey! Somebody that knows 7100's help cat out. I've only seen one 7100 in my whole put-togethers.

Urinal Puck
10-12-2000, 10:13 PM
Looks like getting another motherboard would be easy and cheap. Lots of them on ebay:
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetRes ult&SortProperty=MetaEndSort&ht=1&query=7100+mac (http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&SortProperty=MetaEndSort&ht=1&query=7100+mac)

I don't know what I'd do personally. I don't know the 7100. Guess it would depend on how much I had to spend...

Urinal Puck

[This message has been edited by Urinal Puck (edited 12 October 2000).]

10-13-2000, 09:09 AM
I've used a few 7100's at work and they always seemed like a dead end machine for my architectural uses/needs. Like puck said, it all depends on how much $$ you want to sink into it and really what you want to do with it in the end.

If you want a web/word processing machine it should be ok, but even MS Office taxes the stock setup. I'd say figure out what you want then see if it can be fit into the plan. If not, there are plenty of boxes on e-bay looking to ne hopped up.

Good luck.


10-13-2000, 11:32 AM
I wouldn't spend money on that machine--not when you can get upgradable PCI Power Macs for under a $100.

10-14-2000, 01:16 AM
Catplastic has emailed me on several of the issues including her last question. My answer was the same as what magician says. I suggested a PCI Power Mac unless she just wants the experience of motherboard replacement which could be daunting.

Right now she has about $35 in the machine, battery and ROM card. We also, at this point, don't know for sure whether there is an AV card, or, if there is one, whether it works. She may be connecting to the DRAM Video Monitor port. If the previous owner removed the ROM card, what else did he remove?

Another issue, the L2 Cache card, if working, is probably 256KB. The 256KB cards have a long history/reputation for flakiness. The 512KB and 1MB L2 Cache cards are solid performers. But, of course, if she will eventually go G3, then the L2 Cache card can be removed.

As I mentioned to Catplastic via email, from this point on, things get expensive to get the machine running, even more to get it running well. k

10-16-2000, 08:14 PM
I want to thank all of you for being there for me, you guys are GREAT!!!!!
I would like to see it running, so I got a replacement motherboard on EBay for $30, am waiting for it to arrive. The experience will be fun and challenging. I will let you know how I turn out!
Keep up the super work of being there for everyone in time of need!
Thanks again!!!

10-16-2000, 08:41 PM
Why did I think that you would be foolish like me and fix it? I can't stand to have something that doesn't work.

Kaye's the man for NuBus Macs.

10-16-2000, 08:42 PM
Remember the grounding rule. Whatever this motherboard does not have, start adding slowly, step at a time. Hopefully it already has a ROM card and L2 Cache card. Don't add your old ram until it already is up and running well. This and other things to consider, such as where you are going to plug your monitor into. Let us know if you have problems or success. k

[This message has been edited by kaye (edited 16 October 2000).]

10-17-2000, 01:10 AM
well...there's no better way to learn.

not all are called....but those who are....well, who among us here doesn't have boxes of stuff that others might call junk?

I'm guilty as hell....and I've already cleaned out the basement once this year. Getting ready to do it one more time.

get ready, Louie.


10-19-2000, 05:59 PM
Well guys, I got my motherboard today!! I got the old one out and the new one in, in less than half and hour! Turned it on and it purrs like a kitten!! Thanks again guys for the troubleshooting, we would be lost without you guys!
I have a question, not as bad as the first one: I would like to add a bigger external HD, what do I need? I need a NuBus scsi card, right?? where do I find such an animal? Would I need a standard scsi HD or wide or what?

10-19-2000, 06:06 PM
Kaye is the NuBus Expert.

Kinda makes you feel good to be persistent and finally get it going doesn't it?

[This message has been edited by Louie (edited 19 October 2000).]

10-19-2000, 08:28 PM
That is great. You have done something that I never have, mobo replacement. There are two NuBus SCSI cards worth their salt, the ATTO SiliconExpress IV and the NuBus JackHammer, both eBay type of purchases, about $50. Both are Fast and Wide SCSI-2 (20MB/s). Out of the box, the ATTO card is faster and almost nothing to setup, pretty much plug-n-play. The JackHammer at default settings is slower, but with the proper tweaking, it is considerably faster of the two cards. I have four of the ATTO SE IV cards in my parts bin and maybe five or six JackHammers. Both worked well for me. The JackHammer, I hooked up a U160 LVD Cheetah X15 to it, and the drive defaulted back to single-ended and Fast and Wide SCSI-2 at 18MB/s sustained read and write (you always lose a little due to overhead) which is the best I ever attained on a NuBus machine.

That said, if I recall correctly, way back at the beginning, you mentioned a G3 upgrade. Is that still in the cards? If so, the only combination of G3 and NuBus SCSI card that are compatible is the JackHammer and the FewerTech (I have to mask the real name or magician goes into a tizzy, I think he has a filter that tells him when someone says the word). If you have space internally and want to use the internal fast SCSI-2 bus (10MB/s), then you could use a Sonnet G3/G4. Questions? k

10-26-2000, 09:24 PM
I want to do the G3 upgrade, but have to wait for now, can't afford it, but still on my wish list. I bought from a friend a Quadra 650, cheap. It has an APS 2GB external HD and has been tweaked by the first owner before my friend got it. I figured it was cheap enough to put the HD on the 7100/66 and check out memory and maybe use it, depending on size. Should it be a problem switching HD's??

10-27-2000, 12:46 AM
>>I would like to see it running, so I got a replacement motherboard on EBay for $30

cat, that's great. I too hate to see anything sitting around broken that could be fixed. Lightning hit mine when it was pretty new, and even doing the mechanical work myself the fix definitely came to more than $30! But it seemed worth it at the time, considering the thing cost $2400 new (and that was -after- Apple's developer discount - ouch).

A 7100 may not be not much by current standards, but by resurrecting one yourself at just the right time, well, if you look at it from the right angle (and squint http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif), it's like saving $3000....

>>I would like to add a bigger external HD, what do I need? I need a NuBus scsi card, right??

Just connect the APS external to the 7100s built-in SCSI port; no need for a card.

>>Should it be a problem switching HD's??

If you wanted to -swap- it for the existing internal drive, that would be a snap too. If the external's in one of those APS cases with the gray rubber feet, yank them straight up (or down) and out. The screws that hold the case together will be revealed. With the bare drive out of the case, the rest is easy.

jeff walther
10-27-2000, 04:07 PM
In the spirit of sidetracks...

Have any of you actually seen a case where the battery prevented a 7100 from booting up correctly?

The reason I am asking, is that while there are many Macs and clones for which a good battery is essential to proper booting, there are also several models for which the battery does not matter at all. I have always believed that the 7100 fell into the latter category.

The battery issue is often related to the type of power supply the machine has (though in the Q605, LC/P 475/476 I think it has to do with video VRAM settings). The 7100's power supply goes all the way back to the Mac IIcx, perhaps with minor modifications in capacity. None of the other machines which use that power supply (IIcx, IIci, IIvi, IIvx, Q700, Centris 650, Q650) have any issues booting with a flat battery. Of course the clock will be wrong and such, but they boot up just fine.

So, I don't think the 7100 actually needs a good battery to boot up properly, but actual experience is the final arbiter. My experience has been that the 6100 does need a good battery, but that the 8100 does not. Yet, the Power 120 does. The Radius 81/110 shouldn't since the motherboard and power supply are virtually identical to Apple's 8100.

10-28-2000, 01:10 AM
Hi Jeff,

I did know, thanks to you, that some Macs would boot with a flat battery, but did not know that the 7100 might fall into that catagory. And then there is the Power 120 that needs a good battery, even though it also has a quarter size button battery inside the power supply. Remember that? I never did figure out what that was for, even though there were two or three wires (I forget which) coming from the power supply circuit board around that battery and going to a separate connector on the motherboard. Did you ever figure that one out? k

12-04-2000, 12:03 AM
Hi again!!
Just letting you know that everything is purring smoothly!
I got the external HD working (even tho I don't know how to let the computer know how to use the external as the main starting HD). Thanks you guys, you are GREAT!!!!!

12-04-2000, 12:09 AM
If the external drive has a blessed system on it, just open the Startup Disk Control Panel and highlight the external drive.

12-04-2000, 02:18 PM
My beloved 7100 has a new problem. Immediately after hitting the power button, I get a low,half speed distorted "boooonggg" instead of the normal "ping".
Any clues?? Could it be a dead battery or a failed motherboard?
Any help is much appreciated. I have another 7100 here so I could try swapping

12-04-2000, 03:35 PM
Does it go on to finish the startup sequence?

12-05-2000, 10:56 AM
No, it just sits there with a blank screen, no disc activity, nothing.

12-05-2000, 11:44 AM

What was the old problem? This is not the same 7100 as catplastic, is it?

Have you recently changed anything in hardware/software? The Mac goes thru several tests during startup and the ping indicates that all of the startup tests have passed. Typical and most frequent are that battery, memory, and a possible power supply problem. There are others, but I would start with those. The ROM in a NuBus Mac requires that your boot drive or boot partition (the partition or drive that contains your system folder) must be 2GB or less (not even one bite larger than 2GB) for reliable booting.

Also, make sure the fan is running and that all cards/ram are fully seated in the slots. k

[This message has been edited by kaye (edited 05 December 2000).]

12-05-2000, 01:52 PM
Sorry about the confusion. This is not the same as catplastic.
My first problem was a failed hard drive which I replaced(with a 1 gig hdrive), and it worked fine for 2 months. I will try a new battery and reseating all the chips. Also maybe removing the xtra memory and booting with 16 meg only?
I'll let you know what happens.