View Full Version : No initialization-ing

05-17-2002, 07:12 AM
Bad grammar aside, I'm having some difficulty adding a hardrive.

I have a Motorola StarMax 5500, with Metacard 300 G3 card & 160 megs, running OS 8.6. I have added, via a VST UltraTek - 66 RAID PCI card, a Seagate 20 GB [ST320414A](Driver 3.25) hard drive. I have tried SoftRaid 2.2.2, Apple Drive Setup 1.7.3 and 1.6.?, FWB Harddrive tool kit 2.5, Drive Tech?, and Silverlining Pro v 6.4-f2. All of these see the drive, recognize it for what it is [saying that there is a Seagate drive on Scsi Bus 1, with ID=0], BUT not one will initialize it. I read your thread "Starmax hard drive dead. Need Help replacing" from Feb '01, and dowloaded Drive Setup 1.7.3 version [I'd tried w/ 1.6.? earlier] last night. That's also when I found I had the Silverlining Pro from LaCie control panel -- which I tried as well. The SP did a test series and revealed during the "media/write" test that there were over 104 errors, and stopped the test.

Disk First Aid does NOT see the drive, only the original hard drive, even when I boot off of the old StarMax System disk.

SO, where do I go next? I'm going to pull the machine apart and get serial numbers to go thru the Seagate warranty process and hoping that I can get an RMA to return it. I've double checked the jumpers, made sure the cables are plugged in and made sure the power cable is hooked up. I have NOT made sure the actual drive spins - WILL THE SOFTWARE PACKAGES "SEE" THE DRIVE, EVEN IF IT IS NOT POWERED UP?

Unfortunately, I seems like I only get a chance to work on the machine every couple of weeks [I've three little helpers that should now be distracted by the 2nd machine I've gotten them.]

05-17-2002, 07:15 AM
Additional info - after reading the "IDE recognized as SCSI" thread, I would like to add the following:

I have an ATI graphic card in one PCI slot and a Firewire Card in a second.

05-17-2002, 01:07 PM
I would look to download Mac OS 9.2-something - anything - but you probably don't want to download 82MB 9.1 updater, that has Drive Setup 2.07. Or Intech HDST 3.5. FWB HDT 4.5. Sounds like SLPro 6.4 is close to current. Because it is IDE you could damage the drive if you used an older utility and tried to low level it. Apple recommends using the zero-all to accomplish the same thing. There use to appear to be a low level option in DS but it should not have and would render a drive doa.

I don't suppose there is another mac around that you could initialize it from?


05-17-2002, 02:15 PM
Another Texan on this forum, oh boy. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

One of our mad scientist type moderators is a Texan. I always been told that one Texan was probably enough. I spose we'll find out. Welcome yall. (or is it all ya all?)

Your description of what's happening makes me wonder if this drive came out of another computer type? Sometime the formats are not compatible from one to the next and can take some doing to get them to work.

Another possibility is that you need to erase the driver partition and start over. One free utility that can do that is ATTO ExpressProTools 2.6. You can download a copy from the macgurus ftp site if you want or direct from attotech.com. Don't use it to initialize the drive, only to erase the driver/index partitions.

We'll figure this out yet.


05-17-2002, 03:04 PM
Texan born, Texan by Grace of God. It's "y'all all got do" something ONLY if y'all is being used as plural and is a directed/command. Otherwise, y'all's mean one or more of 'youse guys.'

Hard Drive was bought fresh from 'another vendor.' Sorry - didn't find y'all until afterward. Sadly, the StarMax has a seven connector SCSI ribbon in it, and I could've hooked up a couple SCSI harddrives.

I will erase disk first. Then use Silverling Pro to attempt to initialize. Failing that, I'll go to Seagate site and check my warranty.

IS the fact that Disk 1st Aid CANNOT see the drive, but Drive Setup can [as well as other disk utilities] important?

And, per Softraid 2.2.2/UltraTek 66 instructions, I ONLY quick initialize the Hard Drive. It sounded like a full/low-level initialize would be BAD.

05-17-2002, 03:13 PM
SOunds like a problem I had

Turned out that it had a 514byte block size and Macs can only see 512 byte block size

To cure this (if this is your problem) Launch FWB Configure and check in the scsi mode pages exactly what your block size is. if it is anything other than 512 change it to 512 but do not change any other settings. Close save (maybe restart) and try to format again

OOPS I just realized that this is an ATA drive so I do not know that this procedure will work you will have to check it out and see


[This message has been edited by Damien (edited 17 May 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Damien (edited 17 May 2002).]

05-17-2002, 03:45 PM
ATTO Expresstools has been downloaeded, installed and used. I scanned and saw the drive. I re-installed drivers, and created a single HFS+ volume. NO initialization.

Did you hear the one about the Texan and the...

Never mind...

05-17-2002, 04:00 PM

Does that mean you are successful and your drive works?


05-18-2002, 06:52 PM
I did not initialize it using ATTO Express 'cuz I was following instructions SIR! [I thought I was only supposed to erase, and not initialize] I guess I'm just too literal; I erased the drive and created volunes. It shows afterwards that there are partitions with the various drivers. I gather I can try to initialize w/ Expressprotools?

See, ain't workin' w/ us Texans simple? Or is it simple Texans??

05-19-2002, 02:03 AM
Well Mr Texan sir,

I think you should initialize and partition with Apple Drive Setup or the utility of your choice and let er rip. Doesn't really matter what you initialize with, now that you have ATTO you can always erase it and try something else.

Kinda the beauty of it. Jump in there and partition to your hearts content. At least being in Texas and all, if you break it, you can just take the drive, drop it in a cow-patty, and return it to your local EeeeLect-tronics store and just tell em your pet cow ate it. Surely they'd understand, being used to that and all.

Course, after re-readin your last post, I see you did partition the drive and they show up on the desktop. That means you're runnin Express Pro Tools drivers, and that isn't all bad, especially if you're up and running.

Partitioning a drive is the same as initializing a drive. No problem. The only reason we don't recommend ATTO drivers is they are usually slower than Softraid or Apple drivers by a wee bit.

While you're at it you can also use Express ProTools to test how well your drive is performing, highlight the drive and in the menu bar you can select benchtest. This will definitely tell you whether you've solved your problem or not. It's also the way you can tell which driver is the fastest and by how much.

Hope yer havin fun.


[This message has been edited by ricks (edited 19 May 2002).]

05-19-2002, 09:03 AM
It appears that I have a broken drive. I initialize the Seagate, installed drivers, and formated it as an HFS+ drive. Then I tried to mount it. The ATTO reports that I have a "Error Mounting Volune: -58" which is as painful as cattle tank swimming if there's a drought... The drive shows up in the volumes with an asterick (*) and three "?" and the 'benchmark option is grayed out when the volume is selected.

I'm searching ATTO's site for what that means, and Seagate's as well.

05-19-2002, 12:35 PM
It is beginning to sound like a bad drive. You did everything you should have at the beginning, so this shouldn't be surprise. Think of a all the fun you had trying things out that you wouldn't have had the pleasure of if the drive had worked.

If you got the drive recently you might try the vendor first. They'd be able to swap out the drive faster than Seagate, or at least with fewer steps since Seagate is pretty quick.

Oh, and you mentioned that your Starmax came with a 7 connector SCSI cable. Just so you know, if that's the built in SCSI, the VST card will get at least triple the performance that you could get off of that SCSI bus. So you made a good choice and you'll like the results, that is if we ever get it to work.

Been a real pleasure, your Texas sense of humor really hits the spot. Hope to see y'all round here agin.


05-19-2002, 04:37 PM
I've been spending all day with a bum drive. it would seemingly disconnect itself, most of the trouble seemed to be in one area of the drive. Drive Setup Test failed and didn't run to completion, and a low level format also failed. Then SoftRAID ran for hours and never finished. 3 hrs. and I decided it was going to fry itself anyway. Let it cool off and sit for 24 hrs. Tried FWB and it wouldn't even see it. SpeedTools 3.5 did, AND, was able to low level.

However, the Verify/Test in HDST would report "Sense Key = 0" errors (4).
FWB HDT 4.5.2 would also report test failures - but in neither case were there media errors.
Norton DD 6.03 didn't have any media errors.
HDST Integrity ran w/o any problems.
Edited the mode pages looking for something amiss (in part because one of the settings in HDST was not a default and wanted to see if any others needed changing - a reason I like to have HDT 4.5.2 AND HDST around).
Now HDST runs clean w/o errors but FWB still has self-test errors. They seem to be hardware.

When I started out, the drive would sound bad, didn't have any valid partitions or maps, HAD to be low leveled. And of course pulling the plug after 3 hrs of SoftRAID (lack of visual feedback, would be nice to be able to see progress). In my experience, all these 10K drives take ~30 minutes to low level, definitely not longer than that.

I was hoping I could avoid a return, even though it is less than a year old.

Peak reads of 147MB/s and sustained writes of 52MB/s for non-raid, Atlas 10k III.

I've also kept PowerTools and Silverlining around and current - over the period of 12 yrs sort of end up with each for various reasons, and at times one works where others won't or has a special feature. Sort of like Disk Warrior and the Norton/TechTool Pro maybe.

If a drive is "weak" it might have better luck (for me) in an external case, time to warm up first, leave it on if needed (and the noise isn't a problem).


05-20-2002, 07:14 AM
I'm pulling the hard drive and will contact the vendor and then Seagate. There probably won't be any comments until I get it up and running. So, do see Star Wars Ep. II, and I'll try to get back w/ news before Episode III comes out....