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angela
04-29-2001, 05:09 PM
I have a 6100 Mac and want to know is there an adapter that would allow me to use an IDE hard drive? Can an IDE drive be installed in an older Mac? If so, do I need a card as well? Thanks.

[This message has been edited by angela (edited 29 April 2001).]

ChrisYip
04-29-2001, 05:34 PM
Check this out...
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/IDE/IDE_to_SCSI/ide_to_scsi_adapter.html

Might be worth a look

angela
04-29-2001, 07:34 PM
Chris,

Thanks so much!!! This is perfect information, now I will attempt to find the adapter. I really liked the pictures so that I know what I am looking for. The search begins...

[This message has been edited by angela (edited 29 April 2001).]

ChrisYip
04-29-2001, 10:27 PM
Glad to be of assistance - let us all know how it works out...

Regards,

Chris

angela
05-03-2001, 11:18 PM
I have spent the last couple of days responding back and forth between Acard electronics who referred me to their distributor Microlandusa.com (which is best viewed in Explorer) to locate the $78 adapter which will allow me to use the IDE hard drive in a SCSI Mac. The only concern that I have is that most IDE hard drives require cooling fans. I don't want the drive to heat up so much that it will effect the G3 card. I will probably contact tech support to get more insite. But it is nice to know that this is an option which is not highly publicized.

Check out this link http://www.microlandusa.com/microland/product_detail.asp?non=1&p%5Fid=ARS2000FWM

ChrisYip
05-03-2001, 11:34 PM
Actually - I wonder if the IDE's get all that hot compared with a 10K or 15K Cheetah.. I don't have any cooling fans pumping on our two stacked IDE's in our G4 (granted, it has a lot of open space). My colleague has a 18 GB Narrow SCSI in her 6100 - all we did was prop the case up a bit - no active cooling.

that said _ I did have an IDE overheat but that was on a PPro 200 that was in a dead corner of our lab when the A/C went and the room over heated... - it basically shut itself off - I popped the chassis case, turned a fan on, and the drive woke up..

Chris

angela
05-03-2001, 11:50 PM
The gentleman that wrote the webpage on xylr8yourmac emailed me to say that the IDE drive was cooler in comparison to the SCSI. Since he purchased his adapter ARS-2000FW, Acard hss come out with a Mac version ARS-2000FWM. I wonder if there is any real difference between the two item numbers, other than a software driver. I was informed that I did not need a driver, but Acard indicated that I would need to download a driver. I am seeking a response to this question through Microland.

I am concerned that the adapter will work with the 40 pin IDE drive since the adapter mentions ultra wide device. I was somewhat confused with the terminology since I associate the term ultra wide with 68 pin. I sent Microland a message and I am awaiting a response. I was also curious to find out if there was a less expensive adapter available since this one costs $78. But this is cheaper than the competitor, www.paylesscomputer.com (http://www.paylesscomputer.com) who sells the same item for $150.

My 6100 doesn't have room for many more adapters, but at least the Acard adapter attaches to the bottom of the hard drive. I hope I can get some answers so that I can decide if IDE is a viable option for me.

[This message has been edited by angela (edited 04 May 2001).]

angela
05-04-2001, 08:24 AM
Since IDE drives are generally less expensive than SCSI, I still haven't figured out why I can't find more companies don't sell an IDE to SCSI adapter. The people in Taiwan are making a serious profit off a US distributor.

PENDRAGON18
05-04-2001, 09:29 AM
I would think that most (95%) of the personal computers out there never have SCSI and never will. Apple was a big SCSI player and the drives are nice - I have many - but they are more expensive than the average JOE (windows) users wants to spend.

Looks like the ARS-2000IW Bridge Smart allows for WIDE (68pin) SCSI. Its ONLY UltraWide - fairly dated by today's standards, but it does give you plenty of bandwidth for a UW Nubus or PCI card. Here is a link - http://www.acard.com/scside/ars-2000iw.htm
I guess there could be a narrow version of this. Its definately a big case

The ACard adaptor is Ultra Narrow 20MB/s - this is what you want for a 6100 http://www.acard.com/scside/AEC-7720U.htm
Definately much smaller and I bet its cheaper.

I am no fan of SCSI adaptors (of ANY kind) - so GL, HTH, YMMV

------------------
Have fun storming the castle!

angela
05-04-2001, 09:37 AM
Pendragon,

I agree the use of an adapter makes my stomach turn. Acard has several adapters to choose from, but the cost is around $78. Perhaps I just need to find an old SCSI drive that is bigger than what I have and then I wont have to deal with the adapter issue at all. I started to research the issue after a friend donated a 8 gig IDE drive that was new--this was a motivating factor, however, the issue of the adapter is a pain.

angela
05-10-2001, 11:46 PM
Chris,

Update:

I abondoned the idea of using the adapter because of the price and the idea of not liking adapters. Had the adapter been priced at $20 maybe I would think differently. I ended up purchasing a 4.5 gig Quantum instead and hopefully this drive will work out fine.

However, it is nice to know that there is an adapter avaialble with Mac firmware http://www.microlandusa.com/microland/product_detail.asp?non=1&p%5Fid=ARS2000FWM for $78, if you really got a great price on an IDE drive, especially if you have a newer Mac. But for us older Mac owners, SCSI is the best bet.

[This message has been edited by angela (edited 10 May 2001).]

Chris1260
06-13-2001, 03:59 AM
Hi Angela,
Don't know if you're glancing back at this page anymore, but I thought I mention that I recently bumped-up my Power Mac 9500/120 to G4/450MHz (Sonnet), and added a 60G IDE HD (dramatically less expensive than a SCSI HD with less than half the space) - courtesy of a $100 Tempo Ultra ATA66 PCI host adapter. (Also from Sonnet.) (Naturally, I tossed in a few new 128MB DIMMs for good measure, which, at $50 each from Coast to Coast Memory, wasn't too hard on the wallet.) : )

Besides feeling smug at having completed the computer upgrades on my kitchen table during dinner, and having the thing boot right up and jump right to work without having to do any nasty re-installations or clean-installs, I wanted to let you know that the system has been screaming along FLAWLESSLY for two weeks now with nary a crash.

Slowdowns? "Low on memory" warnings? Tens of seconds for P-Shop to launch? These all seem to be things of the past.

Feel free to e-me with queries.

Chris ~

angela
06-13-2001, 08:44 AM
Chris,

Originally when I made this post I was trying to find an adapter for my 6100 because I wanted to jump at the idea of using an 8 gig drive. The 6100 is technologically challenged--no PCI slots. I am inspired to read about the Sonnet Tempo adapter just to see what it does. I laughed to myself since Dimms are equated with PCI and Simms are for old stuff like mine. I know after you installed your upgrades that your computer is smooth sailing and fast. I did get a 4.5 gig drive, but my OS 9 bit the dusk and getting my replacement from Apple is like pulling teeth.

I guess I could have gotten the Acard ide to scsi adapter, but the customer service and distributor for the product both sucked. A rep from Taiwan contacted me and it seemed as if they were more concerned in selling the product and expanded their market than answering questions about efficiency and adaptability of their product. The lady from Taiwan was trying to get free information about markets in the US. I sent her an email to let her know a detailed message about their crappy US distributor and that I was willing to tell her who resells her product, but she would have to send a coutesy product for my information. I let her know that most of the computer venues both PC and Mac were unaware of such an adapter and the market is wide open in the states since SCSI hard drives are not manufactured anymore and that SCSI Mac owners will be looking for alternatives soon. This information blew her mind and scared her off since she had emailed me 3 times. This lady wanted to play games, so I knew how to handle her so that she would leave me alone and it worked. This adapter could have easily been marketed to macgurus, but I dare not suggest a product that I had never tested out first and I knew that the US price was 4 times the original price in Taiwan. I had done my research about who was providing info to the Mac world and who was selling other than their distributor, but she would not get specifics without me benefitting in some way. This is where I draw the line on free info. Thus, more reason why I abondoned the IDE notion.

Thanks for sharing your story...

Mr Jones
06-19-2001, 01:19 AM
I find it interesting that you had this experience with Acard and Microland, Anglela. I ordered the external SCSI-IDE case from them back in April after reading the review on xlr8yourmac.com and was very pleased with the service I received from Microland. I talked with a tech guy there for almost a half hour and he said that he had flashed the correct firmware and had removed the metal rail (mentioned in the xlr8yourmac article) for Mac compatibility. He admitted that they were new to serving the Mac market, but seemed eager to learn.

I agree that Acard appears to be missing out on a great market - I chose to go with this solution because I have a Rev 1 B&W G3 without a dual drive bracket. So far, it's worked well. I have a 30 GB external drive for running OSX, storing my daily backups, and a large collection of mp3s.

angela
06-19-2001, 11:18 AM
I was happy to hear that the sci-ide adapter option worked for you. I am correct that you needed an additional adapter inside the external case to convert the 50 pin to 40 pin connector on the drive? When you ordered your case, did tech support or sales inform you that you needed a second adapter for the pin connector? or did you find this out after you received the scsi-ide adapter? Just wondering...



[This message has been edited by angela (edited 19 June 2001).]

Mr Jones
06-19-2001, 04:22 PM
No, I didn't need any additional adapter - everything I needed was in the enclosure.

angela
06-19-2001, 04:40 PM
Cool that you didn't need anything extra. I guess the external case is different than the installation for the internal drive in which you need an adapter to go from the 50 pin to 40 pin. I wish I could see the inside of the external case to see how the connector looks like. This seems interesting.

Mr Jones
06-20-2001, 11:21 AM
I'd be happy to take some photos with my digital camera and send them to you. Email me at chris @ braunsdorf.com (remove the spaces, natch)

angela
06-20-2001, 08:58 PM
Thanks. I would love to see the pictures and will email you.

angela
06-28-2001, 02:59 PM
Chris,

Thanks for the photos. This is a great external drive alternative especially if you find a bargain IDE drive. Since SCSI drives are no longer in production, this is definitely one way to replace that worn out old SCSI drive. I wish others could see the photos as well.

jcasteel
07-26-2001, 01:40 PM
Angela, I am unaware that SCSI drives are no longer manufactured. Can you point me to information about this?

Thanks, it's been about a year since I needed to brush up on SCSI information and I'd like to know about this new development.

John

angela
07-26-2001, 05:52 PM
John,

Sorry that I could not find a specific article that says SCSI is dead or not manufactured, but its a generally known fact. SCSI used to be the speed king, but not anymore. Also its a waste of time to buy SCSI drives since the wave of the future is IDE whether PC or Mac. Everything new uses IDE/ATA-- just look around in the stores and the catalogues. You dont see anything that even resembles SCSI in the stores. 50 pin SCSI drives are no longer in production. The only form of SCSI that you can buy is ultra 160 which is not designed for older Macs because these ultra 160's are designed for high end servers. If you use these drives in older Macs, first of all you would need fans to keep from blowing out the motherboard. Here is a link for the ultra 160 http://www.ultra160-scsi.com/

Its purely my thoughts that places like IBM or Quantum must be using old parts from the warehouse to make these ultra 160s since they have do something to all scrap that is left over in the warehouse. But at least they are making something to keep the SCSI folks happy for a little while longer, but eventually they will stop making these drives especially since its not cost effective. They figure if you refuse to give up your SCSI, the cost of the ulta 160 rocks a hole in your pockets. The thought "a sucker is born every minute comes to mind..." I could never be concvinced to purchase one of these drives for either of my computers. It would be cheaper to get an Acard adapter and buy an IDE drive than purchase an ultra 160.

I love my SCSI stuff and will use it until it dies and then I will go and buy a PC since they are faster and cheaper than any Mac on today's market. Plus the software selection is far more extensive for the PC anyway. I hate to admit this, but its a grim reality from a Mac lover.

dragon_x
07-26-2001, 06:59 PM
SCSI used to be the speed king, but not anymore.
SCSI is still by far the speed king. With SCSI you get
15,000 RPM vs. 7200 RPM
180GB drives vs. 100GB drives
5 years vs. 3 years (warranty)
15 drives per channel vs. 2 ( for Wide SCSI)
External drives & Internal drives vs. Internal ONLY
Real RAID support vs. not so good RAID support

SCSI has always been big in the server arena and probably always will be. It is definately here to say for some time. My company is always buying and setting up servers - they have at least 3 Seagate Cheetah RAIDs (RAID5) or more. This are new drives, seagate does not go to the junk yard to find old part to make these things with.

Most users dont have a clue what SCSI is. Many never will... but that does not mean they arent there. SCSI is more of a business PRO drive. Business spend large $$$ on SCSI and SCSI RAID systems.

Todays IDE/ATA drives are great, reliable and fast - so most people wont miss SCSI, but for the TOP performance SCSI is the way to go. Some people can justify this by cost savings or improved workflow. Others just want to buy the best and they can afford it. I'm not buying nearly as many SCSI drives as I used to, but I've got a pretty good stockpile that will last me years. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Also its a waste of time to buy SCSI drives since the wave of the future is IDE whether PC or Mac.
I wouldnt say that... it depends on your needs.

I love my SCSI stuff and will use it until it dies and then I will go and buy a PC since they are faster and cheaper than any Mac on today's market. Plus the software selection is far more extensive for the PC anyway. I hate to admit this, but its a grim reality from a Mac lover.
A Mac lover would never say this or even think this. Macintosh system are a good value. Get a cheap junker PC if you want. The 733MhzG3 is only $1700 - This is probably more computing power than you will need for several (three to five) years. Get a 1.7Ghz PC or slower and you will probably want to replace it in 12 months or less. I guess you didnt see Apple's demo of the 867Mhz G4 vs. a 1.7Ghz P4 - and this isnt even the fastest Apple system. Of course the iMac is a great value. Its way faster than your 6100 and much more expandable with Firewire, USB, 10/100baseT and those PC100 DIMM slots.

angela
07-26-2001, 07:41 PM
dragon-x,

Where can you get the price for $1700 for the 733mhz Mac when everyone else is paying over 3 grand? I am a true Mac lover, but at this point I am more concerned with performance. Now before I got out make the mistake of buying a PC, does the 733mhz Mac out perform the 733 AMD processor which is the fastest in the world? ATA is the new standard in drives and is more readily available than SCSI.

My intention was not to insult Mac folks about the SCSI drives. I just wanted to say that the new SCSI drives leaves the older Macs out of the loop. It's a good thing that there is an adapter option so that you can buy IDE hard drives which are sold in stores as opposed to purchasing in the mail or something that is not compatible with the older Macs. Nice to have options...that's all.