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Mr. Benscoter
05-08-2001, 04:48 PM
Pendragon 18
That was fast http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif You folks are scary <g> Now, I am back in the grove and have been looking at the recommendations. I do have a question about the multiplexing SCSI - therefore requiring two cards? We have the regular HD that came with the machine, what ever that is? Would this be somehow in this Raid Business? I also noted something about heat on the earlier Cheeta's? I do not want any heat problems. We may go for that processor upgrade later - the old IIsi may get replaced by an iMac for Mrs.Benscoter - so she has a friend for her Watercolor work.
This will take me some time to figure all this out -- not the swiftest here - but, I cast a mean fly rod and drift a good river http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I do so appreciate the prompt and detailed help. Of course you are always welcome at our Base Camp - Steelheading in the winter & Windsurfing in the Summer. Grampa B.


I would appreciate some guidance on upgrading our 9600/350 604ev Mac.
We are running system 7.6.1 and have the OS 8 and OS 9 discs.. therefore,
I would like to add an extra Hardrive, card, etc so we can use the other systems. I understand that Mac OS X will not be usable on the 604ev chip set? Is there an upgrade that moves us in that direction. We currently have 192 megs of ram, do we need to upgrade that. We wish to also upgrade all of the software and it would be nice to do that to a new drive with the new upgrades.

I need directions on which drive to get.... etc.

Mailto:scooter@casco.net

Regards & thank You
Leslie Benscoter
LakeCreek Studio
Deadwood, Oregon

[This message has been edited by Mr. Benscoter (edited 08 May 2001).]

PENDRAGON18
05-08-2001, 05:40 PM
For drives - I would recommend the Cheetah x15 - its 15K RPM and 18GB. If you want/need bigger go with the 10K 36 or 72GB drives. If you still need more in a SINGLE drive, get the Barracuda 180GB!

To run any Cheetah, you will need an LVD card. The MilesU2W is the one to get. You can get two - one for each bus master slot to multi-plex your SCSI over a RAID setup. This can give you a theoretical 160MB/s sustained reads and writes... I think its more like 100MB/s with the benchmarks and of course lower in the FINDER. Still - these drives are FAST. RAID software comes with the Miles and its fairly easy to use - so if you get more than one drive you can stripe several equal drives to get a single larger faster volume.

I would recommend you format in either Apple or SoftRAID. They work the best IME.

I like system 9.1 - there have been many changes since 7.6.1 and mostly for the better. 8.6 is also a great stable OS and should support just about everything out there.

RAM is a bit expensive. I would probably go with 2x128MB EDO or FPM 60ns DIMMs. It is best to interleave. This gives you about 15% more speed overall.

The 350/604e is definately a fast chip. You are probably doing A/V work or maybe Photoshop stuff. If you do upgrade this I would suggest an XLR8 G3/466 or 500Mhz. You can usually overclock the 466 to run at 500, but OCs are not guaranteed. XLR8 makes the best upgrades. Your KANSAS MOBO can handle the advanced speculative access of the G3 and G4 systems, but I think you mac may be affected by the busmaster-6slot issue. I have some 9600/200s at work, but I dont think they will pay to have them upgraded http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

With all those upgrades you probably should upgrade your video. I would go with the RADEON PCI. Its a nice card with great 2D and even better 3D. This may require MacOS 9 to work. The only issues I found were the MacOS 9.1 drivers do not work with it - I had to download the latest from the ATI site. Also MPEG videos are very distorted (like copy protection on a scrambled cable channel). Not sure whats up with that. My ATIRAGE128 and Voodoo 5 work fine with MPEG. If you are ONLY looking for 2D then the Formac cards are a good choice, but a bit more expensive. You may wantAlso - if you havent purchased a Video card in awhile - they now come in x86 VGA only.

You can stuff many drives in the 9600... it has a massive powersupply. If I had the money I would probably use an x15 to boot off - maybe two striped and then 2x36GB 10K RPM Cheetahs for a large fast drive. You can take just about all the PCI cards with you to the next mac you get. You may also want to consider a USB/Firewire combo card. Firewire peripherial are starting to bust a move http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/dance.gif

XLR8 also have a G4/Dual setup, but that is still affected by the Busmaster PCI issue - I think.

GL, HTH, YMMV

MacMikester
05-08-2001, 06:53 PM
Hey Leslie,

P18's flight of ideas can be organized a little better but first, it would be important to get your thoughts on some issues. The kind of open ended upgrade question you have asked can very quickly lead you into the financial ballpark of a brand new G4 Mac, so it is important for you to consider how much you would be willing to spend on your upgrade projects and how the peripherals you already have would factor into your decision to upgrade the 9600. What is your configuration now? Is having six slots important vs. getting four with a new Mac? Do you simply love your 9600 and want to hold onto it for awhile for the sake of familiarity and dependability?

I have a 9600/350 that I am in the process of upgrading. It is a slippery slope because every upgrade you buy increases the value (or magnifies the loss) of your Mac and helps to support the thought of another upgrade vs. buying new. I started with the hard drives and SCSI situation (ATTO UL3D dual channel SCSI controller and two 10K Seagate Cheetah drives). The latest generation X15 Cheetahs now cost what my 10K Cheetahs cost when I bought them, but the X15's were a little too expensive for me back then. The Miles2 card is a better performer in the 9600 era Macs and cheaper than the ATTO! The reason I went with the ATTO is that I cannot buy a better card at this time to migrate into a new Mac when I get to that point. It is supported in OS X, it is 64-bit wide, supports 33 MHz and 66 MHz PCI bus speeds and blows the Miles2 away in a new generation G4 Mac. So...the magnitude of your forward thinking comes in to play in your decision as well.

RAM is an important consideration, it should be interleaved (installed in matched pairs) in the 9600 and it is more expensive but slower than the RAM in current new Macs. 320 MB is about the minimum for a high end multi-use system where you simply don't want to worry about whether or not you have enough for a demanding game or a graphics project or two.

In my opinion, you absolutely need to be running OS 9.0.4 for the optimizations over previous OS versions, and I think OS 9.1 is worth it as well.

Got to the MacGurus main pages and price out the SCSI subsystems and RAM of your choice. If your still in the game after that, you can consider video cards, CD-RW, USB/FireWire adapters and soforth. The 9600 is a super, super machine and I love mine http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Regards

PENDRAGON18
05-08-2001, 10:01 PM
In my opinion, you absolutely need to be running OS 9.0.4 for the optimizations over previous OS versions, and I think OS 9.1 is worth it as well.
I heard there were 'issues' with 9.1 and Photoshop 6. What is your experience?

I only have a few copies of PS6 at work... most the systems are 9.04 or less. I am in the process of getting a G4 ready and I am going to install 9.1. It will have PS5.5, but we expect to move everyone to 6 fairly soon.

The MilesU2 does have some limitation in the new systems. Still you can get 80MB/s sustained reads.. I guess the writes max out at 40MB/s? but I dont know of any IDE/ATA drives that can get this - so you're still better off and its cheap!-)

MacMikester
05-08-2001, 11:04 PM
Hey Leslie,

To post an answer or continue the thread, use the 'post reply' button (star) at the top right of your screen instead of editing your original post with the pencil thingie. This will keep an old angler in the stream.

To answer about RAID, no, you do not need two cards. You can create a RAID array in software with two or more drives on the same cable. A multi-drive striped array (RAID 0) is significantly faster than a single drive on a single bus until you reach the maximum throughput for that controller card. The ATTO card has two separate busses with drives and cables for each bus having their own controller chip, but only one PCI slot for the card to communicate with the CPU and memory. With Cheetah X15 drives, two drives will saturate a single channel or bus. Using two single-channel SCSI controller cards in a 9600 allows you to max out the throughput on both cards. Using two dual channel cards in a 9600 allows you to max out the throughput of the PCI bus.

The 9600 is well designed for heat dissipation and the Cheetah drives are very cool running. I t is the older Barracuda drives that were really hot. The stock hard drive in your mac is a 4GB IBM drive which yields about 8 MB/s sustained reads and writes. Two Cheetah X15s (striped, RAID 0) on a Miles2 single channel yield about 40 MB/s sustained writes and 70 MB/s sustained reads.

Mr. Benscoter
05-09-2001, 08:16 AM
MacMikeStar & Pendragon 18

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I now have one star - found the reply button, Thank You. I waded back in the stream - but, need to get back out and sit on the bank for a spell.... I am going to get back into the references here and read. I do not understand the striping of drives. It appers that I may be able to upgrade the 9600 to a G3 or G4 status (we may do that later). In the mean time, in order to get things moving along we need to consider #1.Internal HD - Cheeta/Baraccuda #2.Choice of Card Miles or ATTO #3. Paired (inter-leaved) Ram chips - from 192 megs to some greater number. The issue then - How much can I afforad to spend now and how that influences the upgrade decision? The older IIsi is still viable for email and Fax work. It has a Baracudda drive in it - I could also put that in the 9600 along with a Cheeta and install the old original (80 meg) drive back in the IIsi? I really appreciate the help - I now know you folks are out there and that is a comfort.I shall return -- Thank You.

Mr. Benscoter
05-09-2001, 11:03 AM
Mike & Pen
In reply to Pen's question on photoshop - I do not have PS 6 yet. We are rank amateurs in all of the above. Therefore, patience required - thank you.

If (If) I leave the old IBM 4G in the 9600 and add either the Initio Miles2 or ATTO card do I still have that (striped) option. I actually do not understand striped... I am guessing it allows one to interact with either drive without rebooting. In other words you boot from the newer Cheeta or Barracuda and have access to the info on the older 4G IBM? OR - does this not work well? The talk about the Bus speed width & PCI stuff I did not clearly get the overall picture I could somehow take the Baracudda from the IIsi and put it in place of the IBM 4G - it is a 7200 rpm drive?

It seems as if I am looking at the Cheeta 160 @ $270 or the 18.35 15K @ @390 along with the Miles 2 w/softraid 2.1 (upgrade to 2.2) @ $200 or ATTO @ $600.

I am thinking - Miles 2 and later add the memory upgrades.

WE do want to hold on to the 9600/350 keeping it reasonably up dated. I think we should add a replacement for the IIsi (leaving it for Fax & email) - incidently I use the 9600 for plenty of email - more so than anything else (I am not a graphics pro) Have scanner and post pictures for friends etc. However....if we do the iMac upgrade for Ann's pleasure - this would eventually involve camera, cam corder etc -- all in due time as I am retired and do not want to give up fishing http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif - having done that we would still have the 9600 and its ability to still be upgraded to G3/G4 - Besides we still do not have back up - never have and I understand the risk.

It aappears that if we can afford this - we are looking at $470 to $590 for openers - minus Ram.......etc.

The question in the main is - do I use the Baracudda from the IIsi or leave the original drive in the 9600? Or -- leave it in and add the Baracudda with the Cheeta - using the one for a backup? I have the IIsi on a network with the 9600.

Sorry for all this you folks -- I do appreciate the help.

Leslie

Dick Brillo
05-09-2001, 12:07 PM
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Mr. Benscoter,</p>


I after reading your posts, I get the feeling you are not a 'professional'
type user. I say 'type', because many of us work at professional levels, even
though it may be at home. Your Mac, the 9600, certainly is a 'professional'
machine capable of delivering you very fast 'professional' performance -- at
a cost. MacMikester's caution on upgrading should be considered. I too have
a standard issue 9600/233, but with more RAM. I go back and forth about what
to do. Mac OS X, RAM prices and cheap G4's are really making that decision harder
to make.</p>


Here is another perspective. I wrote this in an earlier post (http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/Forum14/HTML/000070.html):</p>


&quot;...you could stick with a narrow drive. The Gurus sell one; Seagate ST318417N
(18.4GB) for $259.99. All you would need is a $12.99 drive sled and Drive Setup
1.9.2 (Mac OS 9.0.4) or Drive Setup 2.0.3 (Mac OS 9.1), which is free, and your
done. If you wanted a little more speed a Miles Bluenote for $74.99 would get
you in the 16-19 MB/sec range. Now this is nowhere the speed of the Miles Ultra2
step MM suggests, but it is a solution for only a total cost of $347.97. $74.99
less without the Bluenote. Certainly faster than the 6-8 MB/sec your probably
getting with the 4GB hard drive in the 9600. You can use that hard drive for
backup, another system folder, or whatever...&quot;</p>


Mr. Benscoter, this is a stable, cheaper solution that just might work for
you. I hate to see someone buy something that they will never realize its full
potential. Only you can answer that one. The above setup will allow you to break
through the 6-8MB/sec barrier, and everyone here I'm sure will agree, is the
biggest part of that WOW factor.</p>


You sound confused, I know I was, so I would also recommend this thread (http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/Forum21/HTML/000076.html).
I learned a lot from it. Mainly because its creator, RebeccaKW, was very naive
about upgrading her 7600, and asked good questions. The gurus, very graciously,
helped her out, explained all the issues in great detail. Many of which parallel
your own.</p>


Good Luck,

Jesse </p>


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Dick Brillo
05-09-2001, 12:12 PM
Shoot!

Sorry for the html... I was trying to make a nice looking message!!!

Damn!

try this:

Mr. Benscoter,

I after reading your posts, I get the feeling you are not a 'professional' type user. I say 'type', because many of us work at professional levels, even though it may be at home. Your Mac, the 9600, certainly is a 'professional' machine capable of delivering you very fast 'professional' performance -- at a cost. MacMikester's caution on upgrading should be considered. I too have a standard issue 9600/233, but with more RAM. I go back and forth about what to do. Mac OS X, RAM prices and cheap G4's are really making that decision harder to make.

Here is another perspective. I wrote this in an earlier post, http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/Forum14/HTML/000070.html:

"...you could stick with a narrow drive. The Gurus sell one; Seagate ST318417N (18.4GB) for $259.99. All you would need is a $12.99 drive sled and Drive Setup 1.9.2 (Mac OS 9.0.4) or Drive Setup 2.0.3 (Mac OS 9.1), which is free, and your done. If you wanted a little more speed a Miles Bluenote for $74.99 would get you in the 16-19 MB/sec range. Now this is nowhere the speed of the Miles Ultra2 step MM suggests, but it is a solution for only a total cost of $347.97. $74.99 less without the Bluenote. Certainly faster than the 6-8 MB/sec your probably getting with the 4GB hard drive in the 9600. You can use that hard drive for backup, another system folder, or whatever..."

Mr. Benscoter, this is a stable, cheaper solution that just might work for you. I hate to see someone buy something that they will never realize its full potential. Only you can answer that one. The above setup will allow you to break through the 6-8MB/sec barrier, and everyone here I'm sure will agree, is the biggest part of that WOW factor.

You sound confused, I know I was, so I would also recommend this thread.
http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/Forum21/HTML/000076.html

I learned a lot from it. Mainly because its creator, RebeccaKW, was very confused about upgrading her 7600. The gurus, very graciously, helped her out, explained all the issues in great detail. Many of which parallel your own.

Good Luck,
Jesse

MacMikester
05-09-2001, 07:16 PM
Well Dick, it is truly necessary to hear alternative opinions but your insistence on championing the narrow SCSI alternative on every thread is wearing thin. You could make a better case for sticking an Acard or Sonnet ATA controller in a any legacy Mac and buying even cheaper, even bigger ATA drives. The fact of the matter is that this does not yield cost-effective performance in a legacy Mac. I have a sense of where Mr. Benscoter wants to go with his Mac and what the performance benefit of LVD SCSI feels like compared to the stock system. Mr. Benscoter and others like him are not looking for minimal solutions to incrementally increase the performance of their machines, they are looking to make their very capable machines competitive with current technology. Narrow SCSI is DEAD. There are a few drives left at the absolute end of their technological lifespans, but not for long. He could buy a narrow SCSI card and drive for several hundreds of dollars and still have an obsolete machine, so BACK OFF, OK? http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Now, Leslie, the RAID option is only an option. It requires at least two identical drives and a software driver like SoftRAID to create a single volume on those drives that appears to the system as one volume. The benefit is that the controller writes to and reads from all of the drives at essentially the same time; for two drives, this doesn't quite double the throughput of one drive. The command and administrative overhead of coordinating the data going to and coming from the drives prevents the throughput from actually doubling. A Miles2 card and one Cheetah X15 drive will yield about 30 MB/sec writes and 60 MB/sec reads.

I think your sense of a plan, starting with the SCSI hard drive upgrade, looking at the RAM upgrade and holding on the CPU upgrade is a sound plan. The 350 604ev CPU is nearly the equal of a 333 MHz G3 chip and surpasses the floating point math performance of that chip so you are not that far behind the curve in the CPU department. As always, these are my opinions, but I'm sticking to them.

Regards

PENDRAGON18
05-09-2001, 11:00 PM
Well, narrow SCSI is fairly dead, but you can still get some nice 18G Cudas to run on the stock internal bus. 10MB/s is way faster than USB's 1.5MB/s and its faster than the old stock drive. I think LVD with the MilesU2 card is the best bang for the buck. If you dont need the fastest drives I'm sure the 10K RPM cheetahs will work fine.

RAID - there are several types of RAID and several ways that it can be implemented. On a Mac this is normally done via a fast SCSI card and software. The main types of raid are RAID-0 (stripping) and RAID-1 (mirroring). As the names imply, when you strip drives together you are combing them. Two or more drives will show up as a single larger drive. You could say its like going from a monophonic speaker system. You have one speaker so you only get the output of one speaker. If you add (stripe) another speaker you will increase your sound level (db of SPL)... you generally want to strip identical drives. You can even give this stripped drive several partitions to help organize things. I usually like to run one for boot/apps and another for data/files.

RAID-0 or mirroring is done for redundancy. As far as I know you can only run two drives in mirror - so one drive is an exact copy of the other. This is good for extra security. If one drive fails, you (normally) just switch over to the good drive your're fine. I havent ever run or made a mirrored RAID setup... but I do back my important data up.

YOU SHOULD ALWAYS BACKUP important data. Its often good to have a few backups... just imagine what the consequences are if all the data is GONE. I run several systems - so often one system will have the same files as another, just in case. I also have external drives that I can back up to. They are usually powered off - I only back up with them every few weeks.

You may want to keep the old stock drive in the 9600 to make the transition easier. Once everything is off and the new drives are up and running you might want to transfer the 4G to the MacII, although I'm not 100% sure it can handle a drive that big. I think some old macs did have limitation here... We have a MacII at work running off a 200MB boot drive and a 1GB external used for FTP space.

If you have any specific questions on bracketing, fans, etc... I'm sure Mag or some of the Gurus will be around shortly.

GL, HTH, YMMV

Mr. Benscoter
05-10-2001, 11:52 AM
Everyone (MacMike, Pen18, Dick [Ref: REbeccaKW,Louie, Miochael])

I have read all the threads - some several times. I also have been in the
*Gateway* doing some required reading: Gaining a little ground, I will have more questions later.

The situation is this:

We do wish to keep the Legacy 9600/350 and will as suggested balance the upgrade path to system 9.1 (including upgrading our PhotoShop 4, MacLinkPro, OmniPro, EudoraPro, Netscape StandAlone (going to Opera and iCAb etc). This software upgrade process will be spread out over time.We may add to our Web authoring software and graphics software - I never take the time to use them - other stuff going on.

The Hardware Upgrades are also going to be spread out over time - heading towards the point where we either - redo the processor and go at it again (?) I do not know what is inline for the dual/single G4 - G5 future? Something is going on at IBM? This could mean we simply can go no further. At any rate system 9.1 will keep me entertained for awhile. Assuming we can afford it - Ann's (Watercolor, Art) interests may lead us to trying to get another unit to replace the *Mature* IIsi http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif She would love the graphics, art, camera, video stuff -- this seems like a good investment to me.

The 9600/350 is still *The Machine* in this base camp. So -- [We are evaluating the finances and will make a committment when we decide How Much to do] Isn't it always this way -- choices?

I am thinking InitioMiles2 and the Cheeta 15 and then add the second one at a later date (for Raid 0) [If I understand that correctly] At the same time we add the second Cheeta or before we would add more RAM going from 192 to either 320 or 448 Megs.

Now --- If we projected into the wild beyond - maybe we would be better off with the ATTO (64 wide) card - as this would better support a processor upgrade to G3 or G4 or --- what ever happens in the next 4 years or so [I think the 9600/350 will be with me for that long or more?]

So---- it is as you folks have so aptly explained to me it is in "my ball park. We first need to get back in here with our money and then iron out how to do this.

I have only been in the case two times - I have an Extra class Ham license, that does not make me competent, neither does the electronics training work I have had --] I am behind the curve and I know it http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif - so - having you (all of you) at the head of my little adventure is comforting to me. The last RAM upgrade was directed by "Stephen G. Trujillo" and I needed his help. If it were any other way it would not be like this http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Please remind him that we remember and were thankful for his assistance. Thank You.

The Miles2 card has SoftRaid with it - that saves buying it alone. I do not have Disc Warrior (Have older Nortons and newer Tech Tool Pro) I guess from reading that going with the upgrades on Norton (or other) would be preferred? I would also consider the Disc Warrior. We have Anubis on the IIsi when I partioned that Conner CFP2107E into three 682 Meg partitions. I would get different software for the 9600 maintenance?? I would follow the 3/ partition suggestions from other threads? We would leave the OS 7.61 on the 4Meg IBM drive unless we put the Conner [Seagate Baraccuda type??] in the 9600 which would require another card and leave the IBM 4 Gig in for backup or whatever. The old original drive could be put back in the IIsi -- it is still ok for email and FAX. The 9600 has the 56K Global village and Global FAX on it - as does the IIsi.The 9600 also has the Turbo TV card and eye camera made in Holland. The IIsi and 9600 are networked - we put a card in the IIsi. WE can have ISDN but not reasonable - we wait on DSL http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

The idea of using firewire, tape drive, more and more is appealing - but, we still need to fish, repair my bridge, fix the gravity system and consider the feasability of power generation -- all taking time and money - mostly money http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I shall return - Mrs. B. (Mercedes/Ann Benscoter) and Grandpa B. are talking it over. I hope we don't talk ourselves out of it http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif At any rate ... I am deeply appreciative of all the help, discussion, references and good advice. Your support is a valuable asset to the Mac Community.I am learning.

les is More (Maybe)? http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Dick Brillo
05-10-2001, 12:58 PM
MacMikester,

Sorry, sorry, sorry.

I just thought Rebecca's success might be an option for him.

I re-read my post, and I guess I did sound like I had just picked up the narrow SCSI bible. Your the Guru not me. I'll never mention it again.

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Mr. Benscoter, your upgrades sound great!

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Jesse

PENDRAGON18
05-10-2001, 01:03 PM
Now --- If we projected into the wild beyond - maybe we would be better off with the ATTO (64 wide) card - as this would better support a processor upgrade to G3 or G4 or --- what ever happens in the next 4 years or so [I think the 9600/350 will be with me for that long or more?]
The ATTO 64bit PCI card is best in the 64bit (Yosemite and up) Macs. It can be used to full effectiveness with the Sawtooths and some x15s. I think Mag had a comment that the older Macs were PCI-bus limited. The MilesU2W will work fine with a G3 upgrade in the 9600. The only possible issue would be if you went the G4 route and tried to install a SECOND SCSI card (any scsi card that is). The MilesU2W will work fine in a new G4 Mac, but it does not take full advantage of the PCI bus and it can limit the performance of the X15s a bit.

MacOS 9.1 is great. I think you have to buy X, but since its only $100 to $130 and system 9.1 comes with it anyway - its a good deal. Your system does not officially support X - even with a G3 or G4 upgrade, but it would work for a newer 'used' Mac.

I do not think that the ixTV will work with 9.1, but I dont have this card... so who knows?

DiskWarrior is THE BEST disk recovery program. It can also optimze. The current versions that you will need are
DW 2.1
TTPro 3.03
Norton DiskDoctor 6.0

I have all of these. I used DW the most, then TechTool... I havent messed with norton much. I've used Norton in the past and its good, but I dont install it. NDD and Speed disk work good as a stand alone apps.

Also Disk First Aid is much better than it was before.

Photoshop 6.0 is way different than even 5.5. Some of my graphics artists are still using 4.0 - on G4 running 9.04.

You dont really need to do anything with the stock 4G IBM drive in the 9600. I would leave it alone until everything was up and running on the new drives. You do not need an extra card for the stock drive.

MacMikester
05-10-2001, 07:01 PM
Hey Leslie,

As P18 mentions, the ATTO will work in the 9600 and in the new G4 Macs and so will the Miles2 card. The issue for long-term upgradability is that the PCI bus in the 9600 is 32-bit wide and the PCI bus in the new generation Macs is 64-bit wide. The Miles2 is a 32-bit card, the ATTO is a 64-bit card (but works in a 32-bit slot) and the ATTO UL3D has two separate channels. The Miles2 outperforms the ATTO in the 9600 but the ATTO outperforms the Miles2 in a new generation Mac and the flexibilty of two channels has its own benefits. The ATTO and a good cable or cables costs significantly more.

The same maintenance software will work on your IIsi and your 9600 as long as you're running some version of the OS newer than 6.x. Partitioning a drive into volumes is very much a matter of personal choice, dictated by what you commonly do with the disk. In favor of the extremes, it is much faster to scan and troubleshoot smaller individual volumes but it is a pain to enlarge a volume that you initially created too small (but it can be carefully done).

To move any narrow drives into the 9600 requires no extra SCSI card. Just hook up to an empty connector on the internal bus that the stock IBM drive and CD-ROM are already on. This bus is limited to 10 MB/sec max transfer rate. You can leave any and all existing drives in the 9600 when you add a faster SCSI card and new drive(s). The best place to mount your new faster drive(s) would be on the plastic mounting tray at the very bottom of the case. You can mount two drives side-by-side here and block only the lowest PCI slot (leaving five free). These would have their own cable(s) connecting just to the PCI SCSI controller card.

Regards

DB, please understand, in the right context, your comments are entirely appropriate. Peace

magician
05-12-2001, 12:41 AM
come on, now, Jesse. You know you are loved.

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Mr B, you are doing fine. I have reviewed this thread, and it looks like your thinking is refining itself nicely. If you have specific questions for me, please post them in simple, quick bullet fashion rather than buried in long paragraphs. I need to surf thru another 40 posts before my evening is done.

Sure wish I could come over to fish.

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Mr. Benscoter
05-12-2001, 09:45 AM
•Got It http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
•Lost Chainsaw yesterday In town to get repaired ended up with new one http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
•Will have more follow up questions when I think it through.
Thank You
leslie

magician
05-14-2001, 05:59 PM
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