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bfeely
04-22-2001, 05:04 AM
Reformatting my hard disks for the first time.

I am seeking advice on initializing and reformatting my hard drives. I know my drivers are not up to date so they need reinitializing, also, I would like to reformat my hard disks from Mac OS Standard to HFS+ to save space as I do have a lot of small files on both hard disks.

My Apple disk is used to store all my applications and system folder stuff. My Segate disk is used to store my Photoshop 6.0 application, plus all digital artwork. I am a Photoshop artist. It also contains my virtual office i.e. invoices, correspondence and such like.

My setup is:
9600/350 with 400/200 G4 card upgrade card from Newer Technology.
9.0.4. but upgrading to 9.1 in a week or two. Current Apple Drive Setup 1.9.2.

I have two internal hard disks and one external scsi device: -
Internal:
1. Apple Hard Disk ID : 0
Partition = 1
Driver Version : 8.1.4 (Apple)
Vendor: IBM
Revision No. 565A
Size : 4GB
Mac OS Standard

2. Segate Hard Disk ID : 5
Partition = 1
Driver version 3.0.2 (FWB)
Model No : ST39173N
Size : 9GB
Mac OS Standard

External:
Panasonic DVD RAM 5.6GB with ID : 1
I use the DVD RAM as a way of backing up my data, which I do at HFS Extended using Retrospect Express 4.3.

Segate recommended I purhcased Charismac's Annubis Utility to update the driver on my Seagate disk because:

Note: It appears that Drive Setup in conjunction with the controller will
only run drives at SCSI ID 0 at full performance over the bus. It
restricts any other SCSI ID to asynchronous operations. This is not the
fault of the drive, as it is capable of much more. The synchronous
transfers are inherent in the drive, but the controller must request them.
We have found that the latest CharisMac Annubus utility (
http://www.charismac.com/ ) can let all SCSI drives operate at their full
potential no matter the SCSI ID.

I purchased the Utility and in the manual it tells me that I cannot just install the Annubis driver over the FWB one, I have to reinitialise it which means erasing my data. I have made backups of my data using Retrospect and done a test Restore - but before I proceed there are a few things that I need guidance on:

* The last or only drive on the SCSI cable has to be terminated. Do not terminate other drives.

HOW DO I CHECK THIS?

* Almost all Macs require termination power (TP) to be supplied by the SCSI bus.

AND THIS?

* Always enable parity (PE).

HOW DO I ENABLE PARITY (PE)?

Whilst initiasizing my disks I also wanted to take the opportunity of reformatting my disk to HFS+ at the same time as updating my drivers.

Any help or advice greatly appreciated.

Regards

Bernadette






------------------
Bernadette Feely
Graphic Artist

MacMikester
04-22-2001, 11:24 AM
Hello b, Part I

First, welcome to the best tech support site on the net. Neither the Gurus here or any Members that I have seen would recommend the Charismac software as top shelf in disk drivers. Intech's Hard Disk Speed Tools for single drives and SoftRaid for RAID arrays or single disks would be recommended choices. Since you have the Annubis stuff, use it if you want, nothing bad should happen. You were, I think, handed a load of bologne about the synchronous/asynchronous capabilities of Apple Drive Setup. ALL asynchronous SCSI transfer occurs at 5 MB/s and only 5 MB/s. Asynchronous transfers are part of the usual order of business in any controller-to-target transfers, even in modern superfast Ultra3 SCSI systems. The SCSI commands, bus arbitration, formatting statements and just general administrative junk is transferred over the bus in asynchronous mode. Data transfers occur synchronously up to the burst speed of the bus (e.g. 160 Mb/s). I only say "I think" because it has been so long since I used Drive Setup as a driver that I can't remember it or test it to prove the falsehood of the statement.

You can test it for yourself, however, before you reinitialize:
Download the small ATTO ExpressPro Tools application from the MacGurus ftp site and open it up. Click on a volume on the Seagate disk in the righthand window and select "Benchmark volume" from the options menu. You will see the test panel pop open. Select 8 MB Max Transfer, Disk Cache off,....Click START. You should see read/write numbers somewhere in the 6 - 8 MB/s range since you are using the fast SCSI-2 internal bus of the 9600, which has a max transfer rate of 10 MB/s for synchronous data transfers. ANY number you see above 5 MB/s PROVES the use of synchronous transfer. Better drivers do give you higher numbers. Please post if the numbers are lower than or equal to 5 MB/s as you will teach me something I didn't know about Drive Setup, if that's true.



[This message has been edited by MacMikester (edited 25 April 2001).]

MacMikester
04-22-2001, 12:51 PM
Hello b, Part II

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>* The last or only drive on the SCSI cable has to be terminated. Do not terminate other drives.

HOW DO I CHECK THIS?

* Almost all Macs require termination power (TP) to be supplied by the SCSI bus.

AND THIS?

* Always enable parity (PE).

HOW DO I ENABLE PARITY (PE)?

Whilst initiasizing my disks I also wanted to take the opportunity of reformatting my disk to HFS+ at the same time as updating my drivers.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your IBM sits at the end of the bus in its own bay above the power supply and is factory configured properly for ID #0, Termination ON, Termination Power FROM BUS and Parity ENABLED. You don't have to check really, if you haven't messed with it, because if it wasn't right, you'd already know it. You really only have to worry about the Seagate that has been added. Go here for a diagram of the jumper blocks for this drive: www.seagate.com/support/disc/scsi/st39173n.html (http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/scsi/st39173n.html) . Note that there are two Jumper Blocks, J2 and J6. The three vertical pin sets at the far right of J6 are for SCSI addressing. I would use ID #1 (one jumper on very last pin set) for the Barracuda. You need no other jumpers here.

The J2 block has jumpers for Termination Power, Termination Enable, Parity Disable and other things. You need No Termination jumper since the drive is in the middle of the bus, No Parity Disable junper since you want Parity enabled and No jumpers on the other misc. stuff. The only vertical pin sets that concern you are the two at the far right, labelled "TP". To set Termination Power FROM BUS, put one jumper HORIZONTALLY accross the two lower pins in the group of four pins. Note: this will be the only jumper on the whole block for you. You are now set to initialize your drives.

I assume you have the stock CDROM on this bus as well, set by default to to ID #3, as it should be. The reason I recommend using ID #1 (or #2) for your Barracuda is that hard drives are faster than CDROMS and most other devices. SCSI controllers are set up to give priority to devices (on a narrow 7-member bus) in this order: 7>6>5>4>3>2>1>0. It is intended that your faster devices like hard drives get low numbers so that the conversation with these devices doesn't crowd out slower devices, and that your controller gets the highest priority #7. You can leave your DVD Player at ID #1 if you want, only because it is on a different SCSI bus (Bus 0 is your Internal Bus; Bus 1 is your External Bus and they are separate). I would change it to ID #2 or something not used just for good form, but again, it's not necessary.

Definitely go with HFS+ formatting. There is a lot of optimization you could do for your Photoshop work with only a modest investment in additional SCSI hardware. The Barracuda you have can sync twice as fast as the stock internal bus will go but you would need to add a Miles BlueNote SCSI controller card. This would give you one additional Internal and one additional External SCSI Bus (Busses 2 and 3). I suspect transfer rates with the DVD would improve dramatically if it was on the external connector of the Miles card as well. The stock external bus of the 9600 is slower than the internal bus, very old-fashioned Slow SCSI -1 (limited to 5 MB/s). I'll leave it up to you as to whether you want to look more into this.

Regards

Louie
04-22-2001, 01:23 PM
I saw your post earlier and didn't have the heart to tell you that the info you received about CharisMac is not right. Maybe it was out of context, but it is by no means the fastest driver for Mac. CharisMac may have their place, but they are more like a third-world country in our minds. I'm glad MM had the heart to jump in.

Here are a few other stray thoughts that I had after reading your post:

It's best to have the same driver make and version on each drive and they must be compatible with your OS.

We can tell you how to place each and every jumper if need be.

Macs don't make parity checks when using the buit-in SCSI busses. Most UltraSCSI host cards do.

For Macs, termination power comes from the SCSI bus. Set that with jumpers on HD's.

As a PhotoShop user, are you aware that the two Apple built-in SCSI busses are limited to maximum data transfer rates of 5 and 10 MB/sec? No matter how fast your drives may be that you will never be faster than 5 or 10 unless you add a faster host adapter.

Were you aware that one Mile U2W card and one Seagate X15 drive will give you transfer rates 4 times faster than now? And, two Miles U2W cards and two X15 drives can give you rates 7-8 times as fast.

bfeely
04-22-2001, 01:28 PM
First of all thank you for your reply.

I checked out my read/write transfer rates using Atto as you suggested.

Result:
Peak Read = 7.86 MB/s
Sustained Read = 7.76 MB/s

Peak Write = 8.68 MB/s
Sustained write = 8.59MB/s

I'll now check out my Segate Drive.

Will write soon either confirming everything was a breeze, or I need more help.

Regards

------------------
Bernadette Feely
Graphic Artist

bfeely
04-22-2001, 01:51 PM
Dear Louie

You wrote:
I saw your post earlier and didn't have the heart to tell you that the info you received about CharisMac is not right. Maybe it was out of context, but it is by no means the fastest driver for Mac. CharisMac may have their place, but they are more like a third-world country in our minds. I'm glad MM had the heart to jump in.

I wish you had the heart to tell me. I only paid $19.95 dollars for a competitive upgrade and it is not yet installed so I can send it back for a refund.

*********************************

Here are a few other stray thoughts that I had after reading your post:

It's best to have the same driver make and version on each drive and they must be compatible with your OS.

OK, so I will have a look for Intech's Hard Disk Speed Tools and use that on both my Apple and Segate. OK?

************************************

We can tell you how to place each and every jumper if need be.

I am about to get to work on my Seagate following advice from one of your colleagues.

**************************************

As a PhotoShop user, are you aware that the two Apple built-in SCSI busses are limited to maximum data transfer rates of 5 and 10 MB/sec? No matter how fast your drives may be that you will never be faster than 5 or 10 unless you add a faster host adapter.

Were you aware that one Mile U2W card and one Seagate X15 drive will give you transfer rates 4 times faster than now? And, two Miles U2W cards and two X15 drives can give you rates 7-8 times as fast.

NO! But I am definitely interested to know more.

I purchased my 9600/350 in July 1998, and installed a G4 accelerator card 400/200 (Newer Technology - I know they've gone bust) in early 2000 as an interim measure before upgrading to the latest generation Apple computer planned for July 2002.

Bearing in mind that I will be changing my computer about a year from now what is the cost difference if I purchased a Mile U2W card and one Segate X15 drive for a faster transfer rate, as opposed to two Miles U2W cards and two X15 drives. What differences would I perceive in performance of Photoshop. Filters easier to use? Able to work with larger files? Currently I have 448 RAM, and I find that I can comfortably work with a 100MB file. Exceeding that and things start to get slow. I don't want to spend too much money for a machine that about a year from now will be demoted to a scanner slave.



------------------
Bernadette Feely
Graphic Artist

bfeely
04-22-2001, 02:14 PM
Just a quick note to say that I am based in London, UK. It is now 8.20pm - and I am working off site for a client tomorrow. So, I will not be able to respond till about 8 or 9pm (BST - British Summer Time = 5 hours ahead of you).

Regards

------------------
Bernadette Feely
Graphic Artist

tm311
04-22-2001, 02:17 PM
before you rush into a purchase of intech's harddisk toolkit...if you are even THINKING about upgrading to the Miles2 for that fast transfer rate that louie was talking about....don't forget that for $199 you get the Miles2 card, PLUS a great cable and Softraid 2.2.2 , which in most peoples minds is the BEST disk driver to own. Just mentioning this so can spend your money MOST effectively.

MacMikester
04-22-2001, 02:32 PM
Hey b,

I'll jump in here one more time and then get out of Louie's way. If you are interested in faster (I didn't want to push it on you), when you weigh in the cost remember this:

A new machine a year from now will still benefit from the SCSI upgrade you get now, in other words you can, and you will want to, take it with you. Your new machine will have a fast IDE bus and hard drive but you can put a 2 x Cheetah X15 striped raid on a SCSI card in a new G4 Mac and get transfer rates over twice as fast as the IDE drive, and about twice as fast as that same SCSI system in your current Mac (which would already be 4-5 x faster on writes and 9-10 x faster on reads than your current drives). I would suggest you consider an ATTO dual channel UL3D with (2) X15 Cheetahs now, if you can afford about $1,500 for an investment you will take with you. I recommend the ATTO card because it is dual channel, 64-bit wide bandwidth, OS X compatible and smokes the Miles U2W in a new generation Mac. I have an ATTO UL3D with (2) 10K Cheetahs in my 9600/350 now, very happy.

For PS, most of the speed of the number crunching to apply filters and soforth is dependent on the CPU. G4 and Altivec are the way to go here. But a significant part of the speed of saving files, saving Undos, applying changes, redraws. opening files and general perception of real-time changes comes from the speed of the scratch disk space that PS uses. This is where a fast SCSI subsystem will rock your world.

Regards

[This message has been edited by MacMikester (edited 25 April 2001).]

TZ
04-22-2001, 02:57 PM
Just to add my experience - and wishing I knew in January what I've learned since:

the best cable, the best terminator, the best driver, a top quality drive are not "options" but are worth every penny. [Granite, SoftRAID, Cheetah - 10k or 15k]

If you can't do everything, get one drive and whatever controller. One now. Add more later. You should get 40-50MB/s writes I guess on the latest 15k drives. Even more when you have two to RAID later.

Eventually, well, I have a box or two of cables and terminators and stuff that didn't cut it. I couldn't justify to myself, or have, enough to do it all at once. Your data is safer, I don't see system problems anymore, and $1200 investment has saved me time, frustration, over the next months. I use to spend way too much time reinstalling and trobleshooting on a weekly basis.

Had I gone for a bundle, I'd have saved a bundle. I didn't know enough about SoftRAID, that I could benefit even on a non-RAID single disk, or that other drivers just don't exploit a drive properly.

Check out the SoftRAID LLC http://www.softraid.com if haven't yet.

Gregory

bfeely
04-22-2001, 05:07 PM
Hi

TW311 wrote:

before you rush into a purchase of intech's harddisk toolkit...if you are even THINKING about upgrading to the Miles2 for that fast transfer rate that louie was talking about....don't forget that for $199 you get the Miles2 card, PLUS a great cable and Softraid 2.2.2 , which in most peoples minds is the BEST disk driver to own. Just mentioning this so can spend your money MOST effectively.

I will think about it.

********************************************

Well ... I managed to change the ID of my Seagate drive from ID 5 to ID 1 but ... I was unable to get at J2. Can you recommend a link or tell me via this forum how I gain access to J2 on a 9600. J6 was easy - open 9600, remove front bay cover.

I did manage to remove the two front screws, but I could not work out how I gain access to the other screws enabling me to access J2. Is it neccessary for me to remove the drive completely from the Mac, or is there a way of gaining access to J2 without disconnecting from the SCSI cable?

If you can give me some feedback I can have another go on Monday evening.

Regards

------------------
Bernadette Feely
Graphic Artist

bfeely
04-22-2001, 05:42 PM
I think I should just mention that the Segate Disk was installed by an authorised Apple technician. Surely the drive would be correctly terminated? What if I went ahead and initialized my drives without first checking?

Regards

------------------
Bernadette Feely
Graphic Artist

Louie
04-22-2001, 07:26 PM
bfeely:

I only delayed for about two hours this morning.

My main machine is a Power Tower Pro and I'm not familiar enough with the 9600 to advise you how to change jumpers without removing the drive. I doubt that you can.

For the ST39173N J6 is for ID only as you are aware. The settings for J2 should be as follows:
TE, DS, ME, WP, PD, RES all with no jumper
You should put a jumper horizontally across the lower pins of TP1 and TP2. This sets termination from the SCSI bus. (Yes, termination power should be set even though the drive is not terminated.)

Here's a link to all the info you will ever need about Seagate drives http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/specs/model_st3.html .

Make sure all the jumpers are correct before you reinitialize.

[This message has been edited by Louie (edited 22 April 2001).]

MacMikester
04-22-2001, 09:18 PM
Hey b,

Even though it was an authorized tech, some are more thorough than others. Its probably OK to try without pulling the drive to check. If you run into any problems, that will definitely be the first thing to look at yourself though. It does require unhooking the connector, removing two screws on the front metal cover and sliding the drive out on its tray. You may even have to unscrew the four small screws fixing the drive to the metal tray to get a good look at the J2 jumper block. It is really not very difficult and we can step you through it if necessary.

Cheers

Louie
04-22-2001, 10:32 PM
And ground yourself before touching the internals!

bfeely
04-23-2001, 01:33 AM
Hi

It wasn't apparent to me how I unhooked the connector, and I was too scared to use force - I couldn't see how it was put together - which is why I was unable to slide the tray out.

So, how do I unhook the disk to release it from the SCSI cable? It's held by a piece of plastic with 'S1' printed on it. Do I need any other tools - or can I use my fingers?

Regards

------------------
Bernadette Feely
Graphic Artist

magician
04-23-2001, 01:56 AM
hi, bernadette.

you use your fingers, and you treat it firmly. Make sure your hardware knows who's boss.

you will need to pull the white Molex power connector (this will be stiff), and the drive SCSI cable. WIggle this out with a side-by-side motion.

then, pull the front steel bezel off, and firmly grab the front edge of the drive sled. Pull it towards you, again, with a side-by-side wiggly motion.

once the drive is in your hands, I would recommend pulling the four screws (http://www.macgurus.com/shoppingcart/obj_show_page.cgi?mgscsidrivetray.html) to remove the drive tray so you can easily and clearly inspect the jumpers on the drive controller.

It's a good thing to do.

One other comment I would make....you will see thruput closer to 35MB/sec from a single X15 with a Miles2 in a 9600....with reads jumping up to around 65MB/sec and writes staying flat around 35MB/sec with a pair. It is very much a good upgrade for a Photoshop machine....it will accelerate opening, saving, and compression and decompression operations....and kick your scratch disk right in the butt.

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[This message has been edited by magician (edited 23 April 2001).]

bfeely
04-23-2001, 07:19 AM
Well ... I won't be pulling apart my Mac (probably) till Wednesday evening because of other committments.

But presuming everything goes according to plan and I can then start to initialise and reformat my disks. And I decide to purchase a a single X15 (What is a X15? A cable?) with a Miles2 card and SoftRaid 2.2.2 is this $199. Do I buy from you? I presume you'll talk me through installation.

What prompted me to decide to reformat and reinitialize my disks in the first place was my inability to print a Photoshop file from my Epson 1160 printer. Somebody on the Adobe Photoshop forum suggested that I make sure my drivers were up to date, and obviously they are not.

The improvement in the transfer rate does that have a bearing on the communication path between my computer and printer? Will my G4 card be less choked? I know that the 9600 cannot fully exploit the full ability of an accelerator card.

My DVD RAM on external ID2 - I am not sure if that is terminated. The second SCSI port is bare. Should I install a driver on my DVD RAM disks too?

Yours appreciatively

------------------
Bernadette Feely
Graphic Artist

[This message has been edited by bfeely (edited 23 April 2001).]

PENDRAGON18
04-23-2001, 05:57 PM
What is a X15?
A 15,000RPM 3.5" 1/3height 18GB U160 SCSI Cheetah drive. Currently it is the fastest single drive you can buy - that I know of. Of course if you get several you can stripe them for more speed http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Just make sure you SCSI card can handle it!

SoftRaid 2.2.2 is this $199. Do I buy from you?
The great thing about the MilesU2W is that softRAID and cabling (internal 4 plug + terminator) comes with it. So once you get the drive and card - you are all set to go.


Somebody on the Adobe Photoshop forum suggested that I make sure my drivers were up to date, and obviously they are not.
It is always a good idea to have up to date drivers. Normally when you install or upgrade your Mac system software the HD drivers are also upgraded. It is best to stick to one kind of drive. I like SoftRAID and Apple drivers. They seem to work the best and have less issues. Intech is great for CDs too.

There are also issues like fragmentation of data and out of order directories. As far as I know only Plus Optimizer and DiskWarrior fix out of order directories. PlusOptimzer is a fairly good 'defragger', but its not perfect. Still Alsoft makes one of the best utilities of all time.

The improvement in the transfer rate does that have a bearing on the communication path between my computer and printer?
Usually the printer speed will be limited by the connection to the printer:
serial is about 250KB/s
USB is about 1.5MB/s
SCSI (not many of these) is about 5 ~ 10MB/s
Ethernet is (usually) 10Mbps (or 1.25MB/s)
If the printer has a CPU, the CPU's speed could affect this. Also the amount of RAM in the printer can affect printing speed. Fast drives are nice, though. I dont do much printer, but I now work for a pre-press shop, so that is changing. I'm not familiar with your Epson, but we have a 3000 at work. I have not tried it, yet.

Will my G4 card be less choked?
I would say YES! Any app that needs frequent disk access and is using the x15 will benifit. IE 5 was running fairly sluggish on my B&WG3/300, UNTIL I installed a 10K RPM 4GB Cheetah. It does help. I've seen other comment that their HD upgrade made more difference than the CPU upgrade. Of course they both matter, but getting a new unfragemented drives always helps.

I know that the 9600 cannot fully exploit the full ability of an accelerator card.
Ok, you are correct, if you are talking about the CPU upgrade. Still you 9600 can take full advantage of the MilesU2 card and then some... you could even get two MilesU2s and two x15 Cheetahs and get U2x2... you may even want to get four X15's to TOTALLY max the Miles cards... and your PCI bus http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif You can always do this down the road though. You can also migrate your Miles and Cheetah drives to your next Mac, but for the new systems those ATTO 64bit dual channel cards are the way to go for ultimate performance.

My DVD RAM on external ID2 - I am not sure if that is terminated. The second SCSI port is bare. Should I install a driver on my DVD RAM disks too?
The 9600 has two built-in SCSI ports. SCSI-0 should be your internal 10MB/s SCSI and the external should be 5MB/s. You have two plugs internally - one for the 10MB/s and one for the 5MB/s - so you could hook up an internal device to the 'external' SCSI. For some reason Mac OS X prefers (demands?) this, but that is another can of worms. The last device in any SCSI chain should be terminated, but on small chains you can get away with a lot - esp on SCSI-1 & 2. I would ditch FWB and either go with all Apple drivers or All SoftRAID or even mix SoftRAID with Apple. Both are free to you (since you are getting the Miles) and they are both excellent. You may want to consider Intech CD/DVD for your DVD RAM and stock CD. Toast 5 supports DVD-RAM I think.

The x15 will be on its own bus - of course, so that wont be affected by the other devices.

HTH, YMMV, GL and All Rights Reserved

[This message has been edited by PENDRAGON18 (edited 23 April 2001).]

bfeely
04-25-2001, 02:53 PM
Well ... I managed to get at J2. It has a jumper vertically placed on the two TE pins, and a jumper on a pair of the TP pins placed VERTICALLY.

This doesn't tally with some of the suggestions that were made on the list, that there should only be a jumper placed HORIZONTALLY on two of the TP pins in order to terminate the disk. A reminder that my Seagate disk is ID:1, and my Apple ID:0.

According to the Seagate Barracuda page to 'enable SCSI termination, there SHOULD be a jumper on the far left set of pins (TE).

Also, why did the Apple technician that installed my Seagate place the jumper for TP VERTICALLY next to ES and not HORIZONTALLY? If I do need to remove the jumper on the TE pins, is it ok to use a pair of tweezers. I don't see how else I can remove it.

I noticed that the drive was attached to the tray with 3 screws instead of 4, two without a washer. When I put back the white Molex power connecter I realised that I wasn't sure which way up it should go. I have inserted it back with blue wire on top. Everything is working ok though.

I am interested in the Miles2, cable and Softraid utility software. How quick can you ship to London, UK (I know I can just download the Softraid). Is it easy to connect my external DVD RAM box to it (Panasonic LF-D-103 5.6GB).

When I start reformatting my disks, I know it can take a long time (hours) is it safe to let it format overnight unattended. Are there any benefits to initializing and reformatting my disks AFTER instead of BEFORE I have installed the Miles 2 card.
Regards

------------------
Bernadette Feely
Graphic Artist



[This message has been edited by bfeely (edited 25 April 2001).]

MacMikester
04-25-2001, 07:25 PM
Hello b, <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>This doesn't tally with some of the suggestions that were made on the list, that there should only be a jumper placed HORIZONTALLY on two of the TP pins in order to terminate the disk. A reminder that my Seagate disk is ID:1, and my Apple ID:0.

According to the Seagate Barracuda page to 'enable SCSI termination, there SHOULD be a jumper on the far left set of pins (TE).

Also, why did the Apple technician that installed my Seagate place the jumper for TP VERTICALLY next to ES and not HORIZONTALLY? If I do need to remove the jumper on the TE pins, is it ok to use a pair of tweezers. I don't see how else I can remove it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sigh. You simply cannot get anybody in this wide world to do anything anymore that doesn't simply produce some immediate creature comfort to satisfy their selfish needs. I am disgusted. That configuration is wrong, wrong, wrong for your placement.

Please carefully reread my post, take your tweezers (ground yourself by touching the power supply and metal case while you remove the drive, then maintain physical contact with the metal case of the drive while you work on it) and set up like I explained. Louie will back me on this, and you can verify everything I told you by looking at the configuration and specification pages for your drive on the Seagate website. You DO NOT want to terminate a drive in the middle of the bus, so NO TE jumper. You NEED a HORIZONTAL jumper ONLY on the lower two TP pins to get Termination Power From the Bus. You were set up to have that Barracuda terminated at the end of the cable (where, in fact, it is not) and power to its own terminator ( which is wrong).

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I noticed that the drive was attached to the tray with 3 screws instead of 4, two without a washer. When I put back the white Molex power connecter I realised that I wasn't sure which way up it should go. I have inserted it back with blue wire on top. Everything is working ok though.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Missing and mismatched screws are the universal signature of sloppy, careless, worthless technicians/mechanics everywhere. Your Molex connector has two beveled corners and will only connect in one proper orientation so not to worry.

If I could do my job with the same careless abandon of the so-called high-price-by-the-hour "professionals" in the technical industry.............I still wouldn't.

Louie
04-25-2001, 08:20 PM
As I said earlier, and MM confirmed, for Macs you want termination power FROM the SCSI bus (which is not Seagate default-they are defaulted for PeeCees). I'm surprised anything worked right with that terminated drive in the middle of the chain( that is default, but ONLY if it is at the end of the chain).

Next time you have a Molex power connector loose, note that two corners are beveled; it will only go in one way.

[This message has been edited by Louie (edited 26 April 2001).]

bfeely
04-26-2001, 01:42 AM
OK. I'll do as you suggest.

I'll probably be making an order on Satruday morning for SofRaid, and reformatting over the weekend. I would appreciate it if for the time being you could keep this line of enquiry open till I have completed my tasks.

Thanking you for your help.

Regards

Louie
04-26-2001, 10:52 PM
Your every wish is our command (or something like that).

magician
04-27-2001, 12:07 AM
MM, I couldn't agree more.

even when I am hacking something together, I STILL don't use just two or three screws.

that whole worldview just rubs me wrong.

MacMikester
04-27-2001, 12:57 AM
I know, I kind of went off, sorry....I just felt bad for Bernadette.

bfeely
04-27-2001, 12:06 PM
Hi

I spoke to a Segate Technician today who told me that I need a Jumper on TE (pin 15 and 16), and a jumper placed horizontally on pin 2 and 4.

However, when I spoke to him I said that the Seagate Disk was at the end of the SCSI Bus. I realise now that I ommitted to mention the CD ID:3 and Iomega Zip ID:5.

So your suggestion does now make sense. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

THE PENNY HAS NOW DROPPED!

See Below.

You DO NOT want to terminate a drive in the middle of the bus, so NO TE jumper. You NEED a HORIZONTAL jumper ONLY on the lower two TP pins to get Termination Power From the Bus. You were set up to have that Barracuda terminated at the end of the cable (where, in fact, it is not) and power to its own terminator ( which is wrong).

Also I spoke to the company that installed my Seagate Disk and asked them to send me some screws so I could tighten (in a careful manner) my disk to the tray. He said that anything from 2 to 4 screws was perfectly adequate. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Regards



------------------
Bernadette Feely
Graphic Artist

Louie
04-27-2001, 11:13 PM
I have now forgotten which device is at the end of the chain. Only it should be terminated.

bfeely
04-28-2001, 06:50 AM
At the very beginning of this thread it was explained to me that my Apple Disk at ID:0 is at the END of the SCSI Bus and it is terminated, so I need not worry about that. I have been stuck in thinking that ID:0 equals the beginning of the chain and not the end.

So anyway, now to move on.

When I purchase Softraid, I know that there is an option to buy this software with a new SCSI Controller card, and cable.

Reading through the preceding messages two cards are mentioned, the Miles Bluenote and the Miles 2.

I get the impression from reading your website pages that the Bluenote is primarily used to replace the poorer performance of the IDE within G3s and G4s but it can also be used in older Power Macs and the Miles 2 is being recommended to work with Seagate drives ending in LW.

A reminder that I have a 9600/350, plus a G4 200/400 accelarator card installed. Mac OS 9.0.4 (upgrading in a couple of weeks to 9.1). I have two disks.

Apple ID:0
Segate ST39173N (7200 rpm) ID:1
If I remember correctly I think the transfer rate on this disk is 40MBs per second.
CD ID:3
Zip ID: 5

For the time being I have no intention of installing another disk or replacing my current Segate Barracuda disk.

Bearing this in mind when I purchase Softraid, which SCSI Controller card and cable (bundle) would you recommend in order to get the most out of my CURRENT set up.

Hope to hear from one of you guys soon.

Regards



------------------
Bernadette Feely
Graphic Artist

tm311
04-28-2001, 08:25 AM
i don't believe that softraid comes bundled with the Bluenote card. it only comes bundled with the Miles2 card which is not a card you will use IF you do not intend to upgrade your HD. However if you would like to purchase the bundle and then sell me the card and cable.....hmmmmmmmmmmmm*s*

ChrisYip
04-28-2001, 09:33 AM
Yup - that's right - only the Miles2 comes with bundled SoftRAID (I've installed two inside my two 7300's)...The BlueNote will work with your narrow drives. It does depend on your anticipated future requirements though. You might be surprised at the benefit of moving to LVD but that's always a personal decision and $$$-dependent in many cases. In my specific case, replacing the stock narrow drives in our 7300's and installing Miles2 w/ SoftRAID and 10K Cheetahs made a HUGE difference in the performance of the computers. One reason to have the BlueNote might be to also connect up legacy SCSI devices - scanners, CD-RW, etc - that won't benefit from LVD (or that might mess up your LVD bus) -

HTH

Chris

bfeely
04-28-2001, 12:47 PM
I have placed a horizontal jumper on the lower two TP pins, everything seems to be working fine.

I have just purchased Softraid 2.2.2 over the internet and will soon be reinitializing and reformatting my drives.

I now consider all my questions to be answered. If I need further help in optimizing my current set up particularly for Photoshop work I will post another topic.

Thanking you all for your help and patience http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Kind regards

------------------
Bernadette Feely
Graphic Artist

Louie
04-28-2001, 02:07 PM
Your Seagate drive is a Fast 20 (UltraNarrow) drive capable of synching at 20, which is the upper limit of the BlueNote. They make a perfect match. I get sustained transfer rates of 18 MB/sec or more with this combo. The same drive hosted by your internal bus is limited to 10 MB/sec.

The Miles U2W can synch at 80.

bfeely
04-29-2001, 03:40 PM
Hi again

I have problems.

I installed Softraid 2.2.2 on both my Apple and Seagate drives. With the Apple (ID:0) I fully reinitialized and reformated from Mac OS Standard to HFS+. With the Segate (ID:1) I just installed the driver over the old driver which originally had Driver d2 init. I think it was given to me by Seagate. I want to only reinitialize one disk first to see what problems I would encounter.

Immediately after restoring my data from my back up disk for my Apple drive I noticed that on the desktop that I had two icons for both my Segate and Apple drive. I managed to locate the problem to the "Driver d2 init" extension, when I disabled that I was left with just the two valid icons needed to identify my disks on the desktop. I mention this in case it has some bearing on what I have written below.

When I do a SCSI Bus scan using Softraid it tells me that my Apple Disk is a Bus:0, ID:0 Size 4.04GB, but ... for Free it says: 0/0. Blks: 8466880. First block:320.

On my Segate a SCSI Bus Scan reveals: Bus 0, ID:1, Size: 8.48GB and I only have 40.5/49.0kb free. Blks: 17780111. First block :704.

In my Apple System Profiler, all is as it should be, my Apple has 1.02GB available, and my Segate has 5.35GB available.

When I try to reinstall the Softraid driver on my disk thinking that this may help my problem it tells me that:

"There is no free space on this drive, is it ok to take unused space from a volume on the drive". I say yes, but it does nothing to solve my problem.

I have also tried switching off the accelerator for both read and write but to no avail.

Also Norton Filesaver finds a persistent (Error 23,030) on my HD drive and a persistent (Error 23,016) on my Seagate drive. I say persistent because I have used Norton Disk Doctor on both these disks twice but it's not solving the problem.

Finally, my original motivation for reinitializing my disks in the first place because I could not get a print out of my Epson 1160 from Photoshop is still just as bad.

Any ideas?

Regards

------------------
Bernadette Feely
Graphic Artist


[This message has been edited by bfeely (edited 29 April 2001).]

tm311
04-29-2001, 06:01 PM
if you created a volume using softraid the icons will show up on the desktop and if you selected Max Volume size it will show up and 0 bytes available.

MacMikester
04-29-2001, 06:51 PM
OK, b

The free space that SoftRAID is telling you about (none available) is drive space not taken by a volume. You obviously created one HFS+ volume and told SoftRAID to make it as large as possible (using all "free" space). You are fine here if you just want one logical volume of 4GB size in existence on this drive. Also, you have 40 KB of space on the Seagate that is not taken up by a volume. Don't trouble over this now, just create (a) new volume(s) when you reinitialize the Seagate with SoftRAID (which you should do).

It is not clear to me what this driver d2 init is but I think it is bad news for you and I would not wait around to reinitialize the Seagate with SoftRAID. You must remove any trace of this init from your system folder if that is where it is. The double icons you mention harbinger some kind of driver conflict or multiple drivers installed on the Seagate. I do not think that your driver "takeover" plan went well. This is a very bad thing and you must fix it or risk real trouble.

Your Apple drive (it is an IBM actually) sounds fine, what are the ATTO benchmark numbers?

Forget Filesaver for now and disable it. It has nothing to do with DiskDoctor and the file and directory checks that DD does. FileSaver has invisible files which it uses to track deleted files and file location on your disks. You have pulled the rug out from under this poor chap so he doesn't know what to do. We'll figure out how to delete those files and rebuild them later, after you fix the problems at hand.

Cheers

[This message has been edited by MacMikester (edited 29 April 2001).]

bfeely
04-30-2001, 01:01 AM
Great

I will sit down in front of my computer this evening and do as you suggest.

I will reply again either around 10pm (BST), or 10am BST.

Regards

------------------
Bernadette Feely
Graphic Artist

Louie
04-30-2001, 11:39 AM
I've never heard of "d2"?? What is that?

I had a similar situation when I first went to SoftRAID and I believe it was from the "driver take-over". I ended up with two drivers on each drive, and, thus two icons (and two of everything in SCSI Probe, etc). You need to reinitialize from scratch to remove ALL drivers and then install just the SoftRAID drivers.

An alternative, only if you have FWB HDTK, is to show all driver partions and delete the unnecessary ones.

Ton
04-30-2001, 12:53 PM
Louie, D2 was a manufacturer of mac hd's, cd roms/writers etc. untill it was taken over/ incorporated by LaCie. They used to have their own formatting SW from which now only Silverlining has survived. Ton


[This message has been edited by Ton (edited 30 April 2001).]

Louie
04-30-2001, 01:12 PM
French?

MacMikester
04-30-2001, 10:13 PM
Je ne sais pas ce que tu demandes monsieur Louie. Mais biensur c'est avec plaisir que je reponde a toi.

Louie
04-30-2001, 10:16 PM
Same to you, bud!

bfeely
05-01-2001, 08:31 AM
Hi all

I have now reinitialized and reformatted my Seagate disk. Everything seems to work fine. I got rid of the D2 drive, that originally came from the Apple technician who installed my Seagate.

I did a benchmark test on both my IBM and Seagate drive.

IBM ID:0 =
Peak Read - 5.53 MB/s
Sust Read - 5.52 MB/s
Peak Write - 5.60 MB/s
Sust Write - 5.56 MB/s

Seagate ID:1
Peak Read - 8.68 MB/s
Sust'd Read - 8.64 MB/s
Peak Write - 9.72 MB/s
Sust'd Write - 9.70 MB/s

Is there anything I can do to improve performance within Softraid, I notice that there are settings in Drive Parameters and Drive Mode Parameters. Should I leave these at default? If yes, when is it appropriate to make changes?

I will just mention one thing that some of my CMYK files now look really weird in Photoshop, but I am not concerned as they were mock ups. I work primarily in RGB. The acid test will be for me, however, is whether I manage to get a print out from Photoshop to my Epson 1160. I am going to be working on that this afternoon.

Regards



------------------
Bernadette Feely
Graphic Artist

MacMikester
05-01-2001, 11:32 PM
Hello b,

Wow, your Seagate is doing very well on the internal bus (the bus max is 10 MB/s). Something could be done to tweak your IBM if those numbers are correct. You are almost 2 MB/s slower than you were before you reinitialized it and it should be faster. My stock IBM drive gets numbers closer to your first set of results with the SoftRAID driver in a 9600/350. I would recheck the ATTO results (8MB max transfer) just to be sure.

It is probably best to leave advanced settings at default values. They are fairly optimal and changes require a certain level of intuitive knowledge to get out of some of the trouble you can get into. One basic change you should make, if you haven't done so, is to turn on Photoshop acceleration for the Seagate driver. If you open SoftRAID and select the Seagate in the disk list, you can select the option to 'Install Driver'. Select this and a box comes up with options. Put a check in the Photoshop acceleration box and select 'OK'. The driver will be updated.

Cheers

PS: the screw thing; any object with a moving part spinning at 7,200 rpm will benefit from the extra stability of four screws over two screws. It's not computer science, it's just science. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

magician
05-02-2001, 01:28 AM
MM, sometimes you slay me.

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

bfeely
05-02-2001, 08:21 AM
I have will have another go with Atto with my IBM drive.

I thought Photoshop acceleration would only be noticeable on a striped volume. However, I will definitely switch it on as you suggest.

Thanks

------------------
Bernadette Feely
Graphic Artist

Louie
05-02-2001, 08:31 AM
You could almost double the sustained transfer rates of the Seagateby removing it from the internal bus (with its 10 MB/sec limit) and hosting it with an Initio Miles BlueNote card.

Are you sure that the IBM drive is on the 10 MB/sec bus? The numbers you quote sounds like it on the 5 MB/sec bus. It should be getting 7-8 MB/sec.

Ton
05-02-2001, 08:45 AM
Photoshop acceleration only works up to version 4 of PS according to the Softraid website http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif (the pdf manual doesn't say anything about it) Besides that, I always found this dialogbox very confusing in SR. When you check the box it keeps stating that it is off, Is it on or of by default?
Ton

bfeely
05-02-2001, 08:51 AM
OOPS! Max transfer rate on Atto must not have been set correctly when I did another test on my IBM drive. It is now at 7.5 - 7.6MB/s for both Read and Write.

Photoshop acceleration is OFF by default in Softraid.

One small point, since reinitializing and reformatting my drives all my application icons have changed to a generic 'hand writing on paper'. Is there a way of quickly replacing these icons with the appropriate one.

Regards

------------------
Bernadette Feely
Graphic Artist

[This message has been edited by bfeely (edited 02 May 2001).]

kaye
05-02-2001, 03:20 PM
Those generic icons, you need to rebuild the desktop for all volumes. Startup and hold down the Cmd-Option keys until you get a window that asks if you want to rebuild the desktop of a certain volume. Respond and it will do so, then ask if you want to do so for another volume, until it runs out of volumes. Then it will complete the startup.

I am a little surprised that it hasn't recognized the SoftRAID icons. k

[This message has been edited by kaye (edited 02 May 2001).]

MacMikester
05-02-2001, 09:31 PM
Hello b,

It's tea time! You did it.

Go here: www.micromat.com/ (http://www.micromat.com/) and download a free utility called TechTool 1.2.1. It will do a better job of rebuilding your desktop files (it deletes the bad old files and causes them to be rebuilt from scratch). You should run Norton utilities from time to time to keep your disks in good shape. You are OK now, I think, until you are ready to make some of those upgrade purchases we have discussed in this thread.

Best wishes

bfeely
05-03-2001, 02:05 PM
Yeah, you're right.

I have learnt a lot over the last couple of weeks.

Thanks

Regards

------------------
Bernadette Feely
Graphic Artist