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View Full Version : ROM revision C needed...help!



s.d. finley
03-25-2001, 01:35 PM
The other nite i realized that my Biege G3 is running w/o an L2 cache!!! According to OWC, i need ROM REVISION C in my G3, i have A. They released a couple of upgrade ZIF chips where the L2 runs too fast, and the old revision A will not recongize it. I have e-mailed OWC, but if anybody here knows where i could pick one up.....PLEASE! For the love of GOD!
Thanks!

sdf

spaz2
03-26-2001, 09:43 PM
Sdf check out the processor upgrade strand on this site. Specifically this post: "Rev "A" Beige & OWC Ziff" . It has what you need and fires a broadside at the myth of a rev c rom (although I still believe this unicorn/grail may exist...). B yes C no. Both are impossible to get unless you can find a rev b on a dead G...Also good exploration of Zif issues and rep. products...

Louie
03-26-2001, 10:31 PM
I've never heard that one before. I'm guessing OWC just thought up a new reason why their gray market ZIFs don't work right.

The Rev A's had ROM subversion 4.0F2 and a Rage II chipset. Rev B's had ROM subversion 4.5 F1 or 4.5F2 and Rage Pro chipsets. The 4.5F2 ROM was used on all machines after August 98, but the machines were still Rev B.

Have you verified that you have a Rev A by checking the Apple System Profiler for the ROM and video chip versions?

A Rev B ROM is needed to allow both Master and Slave devices on the two ATA channels.

There have been reports that in SOME cases, a Rev B ROM is required for the Faster G3 upgrades.

I have never heard of one that would run but not automatically start the backside cache at half the CPU speed.

What is the rating of the ZIF; processor speed, cache speed, amount of cache? Is it nonadjustable (no jumpers on CPU board)?

Did you remove the logic board jumper block and set the nine pinsets with individual jumpers? Which pinsets now have jumpers, 1 thru 9? In other words, how is it set?

Have you tried to use a upgrade company's software to start the backside cache?

magician
03-27-2001, 06:45 PM
I keep wondering when folks are going to realize that grey-market vendors do not have the best interests of their customers at heart?

Hope springs eternal, I guess.

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s.d. finley
03-27-2001, 07:43 PM
yes, i have checked ASP, and i do have ROM revision A. I have taken off the stock jumper block and have configured the jumperblock w/ individual jumpers @466mhz according to OWC webbsite. I have not tried to use anythird party software to configure the L2 cache.....could you suggest any?

thanks!!

sdf

Louie
03-27-2001, 08:41 PM
For 466MHz CPU speed and leaving the system bus speed at 66.7 and the PCI bus speed at 33.3, your nine pinsets should be jumpered like this:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
J J 0 J J J J 0 0

What was the advertised rating of the CPU? Is it aluminum or copper? Does it have a half or full MB of backside cache? You may have it overclocked.

I've read that just about any company's software will work. I would shy away from Newer, Formac, and JBox and try XLR8 or PowerLogic. Both should be on their web sites.

s.d. finley
03-28-2001, 11:30 AM
Thanks Louie, its a copper, IBM, OWC says its G3 450mhz rated @466mhz. I do have the jumpers set as you described. I tried using XLR8 cache software, and it sets the L2 as 1 MB @233MHZ. My G3 seems much more responsive, snappier, plus...i get more rtas plugins in protools!
Strange tho....ASP still says that the L2 is disabled, however, cache22, tech tool pro, and damn....i downloaded another one of those cache profilers...it says my L2 works too!?! I guess it is working? Is there anything else i should do?

thanks L!

sdf

Louie
03-28-2001, 12:42 PM
The L2 Cache referred to in the XLR8 CP is "former L2"; the kind legacy machines had and yours never had. Forget that. The CP was designed for Carrier cards. Get the last Gauge PRO from Newer. It's on our FTP site. Use it for CPU/cache/temp info.

I have two OWC chips just like yours. Never a problem till I tried to add RAM. Just watch for data corruption. Mount a huge disk image such as OS 8.6 Update to see if you get any checksum errors.

s.d. finley
03-28-2001, 07:01 PM
L, gauge pro was the other app i used that i could not remember the name. it also says my L2 is working. xlr8 app i am using is the mach speed control.
is there any reason why Apple System Profiler is not seeing the L2 cache?
the mount disk image stuff, you lost me on that one! I am not well versed in all this computer stuff as well as i would like to be!
Please explain to me like i am a 12 year old!

thanx again L

sdf

Louie
03-28-2001, 08:31 PM
Some of this confusion can come because of different versions of the Apple System Profiler and what type machine that it's looking at. I'm using ASP 2.4.4 on a legacy machine that has been upgraded to a G3 and running 9.04.

The "L" in L2 stands for Level; therefore Level 2 cache. For years, Apple processors have had very small Level 1 caches built onto the processors that run at the same speed as the processor. For the G3, the L1 cache is 64 MB of very fast memory. Prior to the G3, L2 cache was a plug-in memory module on the logic board that looked similar to RAM, VRAM and ROM and was accessed at system bus speed, 50 MHz or less. The size ranged between 256kb and 1 MB. Some machines had none.

With the advent of the G3, the old L2 cache was no longer used. The Backside Cache became the Level 2 cache. It sits right next to the CPU and can be accessed at much faster speeds independaent of the system bus speed; in your case 233 MHz. This is what makes the G3 and G4 so fast when the backside cache is activated.

When a legacy machine is upgraded to a G3, the old "L2" cache should be removed or deactivated because it can cause crashes or really slow things down. If it is left active, it becomes Level 3 cache.

On my machine, ASP says "External L2 Cache Not Installed"

On my wife's beige G3 running OS 8.6, ASP says "Backside Cache Activated, 1 MB"

Your's should say something like the latter. What OS and ASP version do you have?

If Guage PRO and XLR8's CP says it activated, I'd say it's activated. Does it stay activated on restart or do you have to start it each time using software? If the latter is necessary, it's probably some quirk of the Rev A ROM and/or the OWC CPU.

I'm concerned that you have a funky CPU. One test is to start with a very large .smi file (self-mounting image) such as the OS 8.6 Upgrade that you can downloaded from Apple. Double click on it, and the computer goes thru an horrendous task of turning that file into a useable disk image. If, during this process, checksum errors show up, that's an indication of a problem

Tell me exactly what ASP is saying and what OS and ASP version you are using.

s.d. finley
03-29-2001, 02:26 PM
Louie! thanks so much! i will give you the lowdown on my mac.
Biege G3 Minitower, orginally @266mhz, w/ OWC upgrade @466mhz
384 mb of ram
OS 9, I am not sure of the version of ASP, as i am @ work.
ASP says that the L2 is "not installed"

I noticed that XLR8 mach speed control helps out the CPU quite a bit.
first i used powerlogix g3/g4 cache enabler, this set the L2 @3:1 @155mhz.
I noticed a small improvement but i still had freezes on start up, not all the icons would load on my desktop before it froze....in fact, it would freeze before it had a chance to load the icons for my external drives, via scsi, and my cdrom. So i ditched that one and loaded the XLR8, it crashed the 1st time, but it has been ROCK SOLID since. I have not had to manually adjust the L2 on restart either. When i get home tonite i will let ya know what version of ASP i have, and i will try the disk mount thing too.
BTW, i use my mac as a Digital Audio Workstation, using the Digidesign 001 as hardware interface and Pro-Tools LE as the audio program, since installing the XLR8 mach speed, PTLE has been running better than it EVER has!!
Thanks again for suggesting the use of 3rd party cache software, i did not even know that this was an option!

sdf

magician
03-29-2001, 04:56 PM
if your audio stuff is fidgety, toggle write-thru.

the XLR8 software really is superior to all other software of its kind--in fact, it has been demonstrated to my personal satisfaction that other companies--which shall remain nameless for now--have reverse engineered and stolen significant portions of XLR8's proprietary code. Note that I said companies, plural, not company, singular. This has happened quite recently, as well as in the past. Those of you who may be seeking to purchase budget upgrades from a certain company may be wondering why there is a sudden lack of availability? Well, guess what? They aren't shipping. And now you know why: they got caught.

I'll just leave it at that.

one last comment, though: if anyone ever wondered whether Apple System Profiler might have some bugs, take it from me: no software is perfect, not even a utility like ASP from a company as reputable as Apple.

guess who wrote the code that got compiled? A human, or worse, a TEAM of humans.

and guess who made the compiler? A human.

guess what that means?

human error.

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Louie
03-29-2001, 07:43 PM
sd;

Look at my afternoon posts in the Memory forum.

If you're only 12, why in the heck are you out running around till night? Get home!

Michael
03-30-2001, 11:25 AM
just a passing thought. hardware problems are one thing. but i think that software issues go beyond human error. i read an interview a while back of some MIT egghead that was interesting. he claimed that computer code has become so complicated and extensive that no one alive today can fully unravel it or even understand it. this is particularly true of OS code. some of it has been in development for 15 years or longer. dozens of teams comprising hundreds of individuals from all walks of life, cultures, and subsequent thinking and logic patterns have adjusted, added to it, or rewritten parts of it sequentially. code now numbers in the millions of pages. and he says no one really knows how it all interacts or will interact in the future. (remember the movie colossus? about the sentient supercomputer)
anyway, the miracle is that it works at all.
M

s.d. finley
03-30-2001, 04:40 PM
wow, i recently upgraded my ram , and had to take out the stock RAM, because my G3 kept freezing. Once i took out the old ram and only used the new ram, i had no problems.
L, i tried the disk image thing and no errors! ASP edition: 2.4.2
So i guess i need to ditch that blasted OWC ZIFF chip and get me a real one.
i think the winner will have to be XLR8, they have that new MP daughterboard made for Beige G3's. that looks pretty slick, has anyone had any luck w/ these, are is it still too new?

thanks
sdf

Louie
03-30-2001, 08:05 PM
The RAM upgrade problem is what set me off about the OWC CPU. Ordered new XLR8 ZIFs last night.

Magician has run the Velocity board with dual G4's in his beige G3.

magician
03-31-2001, 01:41 PM
yeah, I have dual XLR8 Velocity 500Mhz G4's running in a rev A in the basement....she's ridiculously fast. Playing around with OSX now....

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s.d. finley
04-02-2001, 09:57 AM
sweet, sounds good.

sdf