PDA

View Full Version : CarrierG3/SCSI/USB incompatibility?



Faunus
03-19-2001, 12:14 AM
Hi guys, I really appreciate this forum and bear with me because I am a total amateur. I have encountered a couple of problems when I tried to upgrade my already upgraded PTP 225.
Started with this:

PTP 225 with XLR8 Carrier G3/400 (running at 466)
352 RAM (Five dimms, four are interleaved)
Cache card removed
Miles 2 on PCI slot 1
ATI VR128 on slot 4
Barracuda 18G/LVD connected to Miles2
External 250MB HD and Syquest270 connected to motherboard (for backup only)
System 8.6

I decided to upgrade to USB and a faster HD, as well as System 9. So I got:

XLR8 Dual port USB card
XLR8 scrolling mouse
Cheetah 18G X15

I installed the software and USB card first and ran well. Then I installed the Cheetah in the same chain as the Barracuda and initialized with SoftRaid. No problems here. Then I copied all the contents of the Cuda to the Cheetah and upgraded to System 9.04 and when I tried to boot from it the computer froze. Updated to 9.1 without success. De-installed USB extensions/software/card without any change. Performed clean install on Cheetah and was able to boot, but when testing I found that on attempting to change startup disk (by opening the control panel) I got an error message type 1. I got rid of this by bringing back the G3 card to factory settings, and now I get an error message type 2 everytime I open the startup disk control panel. I thought it had to do with the SCSI ID address of the drives, so I changed it, later inversed the order in the chain without no change.
The problem does not occur when I use the old 604e daughtercard.
The problem also does not occur when I boot from the Cuda with either system 8.6 or 9.1 (I partitioned the drive so I could test this)
I am now working on Sytem 8.6, startup disk was the Cuda, and the USB card and mouse are working again.
BTW, all the testing was done with the external chain disconnected.
Any ideas what may be wrong?
I will appreciate any input, you guys are great.

Louie
03-19-2001, 08:51 PM
There is a Apple/Miles 2/SoftRAID 2.2.2 bug with OS 9 and 9.04 that keeps the Startup Disk Control Panel from working properly.

Use Apple's System Picker instead. The bug was supposedly fixed with OS 9.1 Get it here ftp://ftp.macgurus.com//ftp/apple_stuff/ or Apple Developer pages.

[This message has been edited by Louie (edited 19 March 2001).]

Faunus
03-19-2001, 11:26 PM
Thanks for the feedback. BTW, I AM using OS 9.1 and the problem persist. I will check the ftp site and report to you afterwards.
Marc

magician
03-20-2001, 04:46 AM
toggle "write-thru" in the MAChSpeed Control control panel by holding down the option key as you click on the "Advanced" pane.

that should do it.

Faunus
03-20-2001, 01:41 PM
Got System Picker from the ftp site and it works well. I have tried again the startup disk with OS 9.1 and it will not work regardless of which disk I start from, so it may be a software incompatibility. I have yet to try Magician's recommedation, will do that tonight and report back to you.
Incidentally, do you guys think that I will be able to overclock my G3 carrier card once all this is done?
Marc

Louie
03-20-2001, 03:33 PM
After rereading your original post, I'm a bit confused as to the actual events that took place.

You said:

"I installed the software and USB card first and ran well. Then I installed the Cheetah in the same chain as the Barracuda and initialized with SoftRaid. No problems here. Then I copied all the contents of the Cuda to the Cheetah and upgraded to System 9.04 and when I tried to boot from it the computer froze. Updated to 9.1 without success. De-installed USB extensions/software/card without any change. Performed clean install on Cheetah and was able to boot, but when testing I found that on attempting to change startup disk (by opening the control panel) I got an error message type 1. I got rid of this by bringing back the G3 card to factory settings, and now I get an error message type 2 everytime I open the startup disk control panel. I thought it had to do with the SCSI ID address of the drives, so I changed it, later inversed the order in the chain without no change."

Copying systems from one drive to another can often lead to problems; Aliases are lost, etc. How did you physically update to 9.04; with a 9.04 CD? Was it a clean install? Did you update both the Barracuda and the Cheetah to 9.04? Which one froze when you tried to boot? Would the other boot at that time? When you failed to update sucessfully to 9.1, how was that done; updater or clean install?

After the sucessful clean install of 9.1 and the Cheetah would boot, would the Barracuda also boot. There have been isolated reports of the 9.1 Startup Disk Control Panel causing problems.

I wonder if you actually have good clean systems on either drive.

Another possibilty is that by adding the Cheetah you now need better cabling and termination. What are you using.

Are both the 8.6 and the 9.1 partitions on the Barracuda booting?

Faunus
03-20-2001, 11:23 PM
Steps:

1. The very first thing I did was to install XLR8's USB software and then the hardware (USB card, mouse).

2. I installed the Cheetah on the same internal chain as the Barracuda using the ribbon that came with the Miles2, which is labeled "Aeronics" and is terminated.

3. Then, initialized Cheetah with SoftRaid 2.2.2 and installed driver

4. Dragged all the contents of Barracuda (with OS 8.6) to Cheetah

5. Installed OS9.04 from CD to Cheetah (not a clean install), and upgraded with the download from Apple to 9.1

6. Could not boot from Cheetah at this point. Tried to boot from Barracuda (OS8.6) and froze too. I could boot from the OS 9.04 CD.

7. Thinking it was a problem with the USB extensions/hardware, I de-installed both from Cheetah and Barracuda. Still could not boot from them.

8. Brought Carrier G3 (overclocked at 466) back to factory settings and could boot from Barracuda but not Cheetah.

9. Saved system folder from Cheetah to one of the Cuda's two partitions (CudaB) and left the original OS8.6 on the other partition (CudaA). Performed clean install of 9.04 on Cheetah and upgraded to 9.1. Now I could boot from Cheetah but noticed the problem with the startup disk extension. I zapped P-RAM and the computer restarted from Cuda B!

10. Changed to 604e daughtercard and could boot from any disk and had no problem with the startup disk.

11. Back to Carrier G3/400 at factory defaults. Could boot from any disk, but the startup disk extension would only work from Cuda A with 8.6.

12. Ran diagnostics with PowerControl under 8.6 (will not work under system 9) and found no problems.

13. Re-installed USB extensions and card, and they work OK

I hope this long and complicated description answers your questions. At the present time, I am using the computer with CudaB (not clean install OS 9.1) as startup disk and accessing the software in the Cheetah without problems, The only other problem I just noticed is that I put the computer to sleep and it froze while accessing Outlook 5.02 after waking up. As I said earlier, System Picker works, but the problem with the Startup Disk control panel persists, I get an error message saying the application quit because of an error type 2.

I originally thought it was an extensions conflict, but I wonder about whether I can overclock the G3 card again, whether there is a SCSI problem, or whether there is an incompatibility with the USB software/hardware.

Faunus
03-20-2001, 11:41 PM
Magician:
Turned on "write thru" on the MachSpeed control panel, still can't use the startup disk control panel, the only change is that now I get either a message type 1 or type 2

Louie
03-21-2001, 12:12 AM
I'm at a disadvantage here. I've had 9.1 on a CD since day 1 but haven't itstalled it yet. I remember reports of several people having problems with the 9.1 Startup Disk Control Panel. Darin was one on these forums. You might try to search for that. I vaguely remember someone, somewhere, pulled that Control Panel and replaced it with an older one (9.04?)

There is the possibility of cable and terminator.

I doubt that the 466 overclock would be the problem, but it's possible.

I need some fresh blood to help here. I'm dead tired and have a rotten headache.

Faunus
03-21-2001, 12:36 AM
Louie

I really appreciate your input. I am doing OK right now with the current setup, and I am not too sure I need the Cheetah as startup disk as long as I can access and run the software installed in it. It is faster than the Cuda, no doubt. I can use System Picker to change startup disk.
I will consider re-installing all the software I need on the Cheetah to have a cleaner system, but I won't be able to do that until the weekend. I will also look at the Granite cabling in your site.

Not an urgent matter, but for future reference, I may want Firewire in this computer, and I wonder if it is OK to add XLR8's FW card to my current setup or go straight to Radoc.

I will run the current setup for a week and then try to overclock the G3 card again.

Sorry I gave you a headache! But, again, thanks a lot.

Marc

magician
03-21-2001, 01:08 AM
I would try a clean install, if only to completely eliminate software as a possible explanation.

MacMikester
03-21-2001, 11:08 PM
Hey F,

Sounds like your problem is trying to run OS 9.1 and earlier systems on the same computer. The older startup disk control panels and new startup disk application set NVRAM parameters differently and, in my experience you cannot just switch between them without getting a hang at boot.

One workaround I know of: Set the starup disk, then reset NVRAM when you want to switch to a different system. To reset NVRAM, you have to shutdown, then restart from the power-off state and hold the PRAM zap keys for at least two chimes. I think your control panels are quitting because your NVRAM is corrupted at this point, so you should do this anyway.

One possible workaround: put the OS 9.1 control panel app in your older systems and ditch the old control panels. Remember that even when you startup off the OS 8.6 CD, you are bungling up NVRAM as far as starting up afterward from your OS 9.1 disk.

magician
03-22-2001, 05:57 AM
good advice, MM.

if my memory is not totally thrashed, I seem to remember Darin reporting that he was experiencing similar problems, and like some folks who had posted on MacFixIt, was only able to work around it by reverting back to a 9.04 version of the Memory control panel.

I would try your way first. If that doesn't work, try the Darin technique.

Faunus
03-22-2001, 10:01 AM
Thank you guys. I will try this later today and report back to the forum