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gary hill
01-12-2001, 02:04 AM
hi
>
> IM having big problems trying to get final cut pro to run on my blue=white
> g3 300mhz ( IBM deckstar 60 GB hard drive)
> the harddrive is ata 100 and my g3 is ata 33 and ide ribbon is ata 66.final
> cut always freezes.
>
> depressed
>
> Gary

jorge
01-12-2001, 08:09 AM
is that 60 GB ATA 100 on the internal IDE bus? If so, you are getting data corruption. The Rev 1 B&W G3s experience data corruption when adding a faster drive on the internal bus. The remedy is to add a 3rd party IDE card, or use Intechs Hard Disk tools to slow the IDE drive down to 15 MB a sec.

j

gary hill
01-24-2001, 09:24 PM
hi

I contacted IBM and they told me that I had to take my hard drive out of my Mac installed it in a PC and download a switcher to slow it down. my shop where I bought it did this and after I reinstalled back into my Mac both finalcut and then premiere froze when I tried playing captured video, i think I should bring back my hard drive and get a computer that can edit video.

frustrated

gary

jorge
01-25-2001, 07:36 AM
gary,

purchase Intech's Hard Drive speed tools. Its only $48.99 and a comes with wonderful disk utilities. They reside in all the guru's toolbox and should be in yours. They have a setting in the Devices menu, Driver option. Uncheck the Ultra DMA. I have a 45 GB IBM 75 GXP running in my B&W G3 with no problems. Had alot of issuse before I used Intech's driver. Changing the drive from Ultra/66 to Ultra/33 on a PC did nothing for me as well.

j

gary hill
01-27-2001, 08:09 PM
hi j

i bought intechs speed tools ,do i have to clear my disc and install it. i find the instructions a bit confusing.

thank you

gary

magician
01-28-2001, 12:16 AM
it would be optimal to backup and reinitialize the drive, then restore your data to it.

gary hill
01-29-2001, 08:54 PM
ok after i reintialize my harddrive with speed tools then what do i do ,i read the manual but im still abit unclear. Do i then install OS 9.04? Do i partition my drive for video,sound,graphics? H ow do uget my computer to run final cut pro or premiere?

thanks a lot
gary

P.S. sorry im new at this stuff

magician
01-30-2001, 12:50 PM
after you backup, meaning after you move all your data to another drive, you then reinitalize. Once that is done, you simply rename your drive what it was named before (exactly), and then drag your data back. Doubleclick on the System Folder, opening and closing it, to bless it. Then select that newly reinitialized drive in the Startup Drive control panel, and boot.

gary hill
01-30-2001, 01:34 PM
hi


i only have 1 hard drive so i guess that means i would have to reinstall all of my software after i reintialize ? and i guess that includes my operating system?

gary

jorge
01-30-2001, 04:08 PM
If you only have one hard drive, where are you going to backup to?

j

gary hill
01-30-2001, 08:47 PM
i dont know? i guess icant really use speed tools then?


gary

magician
01-30-2001, 11:35 PM
you really need something to back up to....whether another internal drive, or an external FireWire drive or something.

you can use SpeedTools with only one drive, but it is much better to have a spare drive. Not only can you backup your data, but you can also boot off the second drive to pull maintenance on the primary.

gary hill
01-31-2001, 02:36 AM
this g3 cant support 2 drives,that was the first problem we came across 6 months ago when we first installed the 60gb ibm drive. maybe ill bring the computer to the shop give the technician the speed tools software and let him figure it out. im fed-up .i have my old 6 gb quantum hard-drive that came with the g3 here. i tried putting the 2nd harddrive into the computer and doing what you guys said but the computer wouldent start up,i guess it was confussed as to which drive was the boss. ithink i should face the fact that this computer was not made for editing video,get my $750.00 back for the hard drive and sell this computer when school is over, borrow some more $and buy
a new g4 with a big hard drive and pray that that works.
or spend the money on beer and get very drunk or go to europe for the summer.

thanks for the help guys you were much more helpful than the pricks at mac ,ibm and various computer store "technicians"
yours truly
gary

jorge
01-31-2001, 07:25 AM
gary,

the B&W is a very capable machine. Just the rev1 had support for only one internal hard drive. If you don't want to buy a new machine now, you can install the 6Gb drive in an external firewire case and use that as a backup drive (depending on how much data you have on the 60 Gb drive).

We are here to help and thank you for the kind words. For video editing, nothing beats a good SCSI card and SCSI drive(s). My B&W has the Apple 6Gb drive internally, with two 18Gb Cheetah SCSI drives. One is my boot drive and applications, the other has all my files, videos, and music. The Apple drive is running OS X.

The possibilities are endless. If you need further help deciding, just let us know.

Best regards,
j

magician
01-31-2001, 04:04 PM
I see no reason, in this case, not to simply replace the little Apple IDE drive with the 60GB?

he would have to use the SpeedTools work-around, but otherwise should be fine, right, J?

Louie
01-31-2001, 08:36 PM
Magician;

His problem is that he has no place to store his data while he initializes the new drive. Some driver software will "take over the drive". I'm not sure if Intech's will do that or not. I've personally had problems trying to do that with other drivers.

gary hill
01-31-2001, 08:57 PM
hi

how do i go about setting up speed tools if i only have one drive. i tried with two,i put my smaller apple(slave and master) in the g3but it wouldent start-up (bliniking question mark in folder) both hard drives have the same info on them,i think that must be driving the computer a bit wacky. for my last try should bring it to my computer shop and get them to install speed tools?
or get the $ because the old g4s (duel processors) are getting really cheapnow

gary

jorge
01-31-2001, 09:13 PM
yes magician,

the Speed Tools walk around works great. The 60 GB drive on the internal bus will yield 15MB writes and reads speeds. Plenty for a dv stream.

Gary, how much data do you have on that machine? Maybe we can help you through this. If you don't want the expense of a SCSI card plus drive setup, get a Sonnet ATA PCI card. Run the 6Gb drive off the internal bus and the 60 GB drive off the card. That should yield 25MB a sec. Gives you the ability of using one of those drives as a backup.

Are there anymore dual G4 Sawtooths out there? Maybe the dual 450s.

j

gary hill
02-07-2001, 08:54 PM
hi again

i returned the 60gb .now if i give the tecnician speed tools whats shoud i tell him to do with it?


out of curiosity; does the rpms(7200) and the media stream have any thing to do with each other?
i think you said for doing video on my g3 it should be 10mbs per sec. when i checked with speed tools it was at 29mbs per sec.

i dont think my technician nows about this stuff!

scary eh

gary

jorge
02-08-2001, 08:41 AM
In the Intech Speedtools,

under the Device Menu select Driver Options...

Then disable DMA or Ultra DMA (forget the exact term used).

j

magician
02-08-2001, 10:51 AM
gary, tell your technician to backup your data, then reinitialize your drive with HDST. Make sure it is the latest revision. Then have him make the changes Jorge mentioned. THEN restore your data. Have your technician keep the backup for a couple of weeks while you make sure that everything is cool.

then you need to make sure that you get a FireWire drive or something so you can make your own backups. You have to backup daily, unless losing your data is really no big deal to you.

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

gary hill
02-10-2001, 06:06 AM
hi again my apple dealer said he would refund me for my hard drive with a 25%
depriciation cost (ouch). so i told him about speed tools and he said if i got it for him he buy it off me and set up my computer. i think i should go for this
seeing that i already purchased speed tools and at this point i have nothing to loose (except 25% ).

should i get a 3rd party card as well with higher ATA would that help my computer with final cut pro ?


scared
gary

jorge
02-10-2001, 04:17 PM
That way you will leave the 6GB on the internal bus and connect the 60 GB drive on the ATA card. You will get the full speed of the 60 GB drive that way.
http://www.macgurus.com/shoppingcart/showrampage.cgi?idepagesofheck.html

j

gary hill
02-10-2001, 07:55 PM
hi

so i should get a Sonnet Tempo Ultra ATA/66 PCI IDE Hard Drive Controller,place both of my hard drives on to it ,reintiallize my 60gb with speed tools,turn off the ultra thingy and this will allow me to use final cut (the mother of all video editing)?
do they make a ata/100 PCI IDE Hard Drive Controller, wouldent that be better?

if i did this and i dedicated the 60gb drive to video and sound would i put those particular applications onto the 60gb?

dazed and confused
gary

magician
02-11-2001, 11:57 AM
there are no ATA/100 IDE hosts yet for the Mac. You can use an ATA/100 drive on a ATA/66 controller without a problem. I'll let Jorge address the specifics of using FCP on a B&W with one of those cards and drives....he's done it.

I don't think it makes that much difference whether you boot and run your apps off the original drive....I would probably just leave that drive where it is, and use the new drive for your files. Others may have different guidance.

jorge
02-11-2001, 02:25 PM
If you run the 60 GB off the Sonnet card, just format it the regular way. Do not turn off the Ultra DMA. That would fix the data corruption issue if you used the 60 GB on the ide connector on the motherboard. It is not needed on the PCI card since the PCI card uses its own ide controller chip.

Keep the system folder on the 6 GB drive with all your programs. Only keep the audio and video files on the 60 Gb drive. In the preferences in Final Cut Pro, set the 60 Gb drive as your capture drive. Other than that, make sure you have enough ram and enjoy the video editing!

j

gary hill
02-12-2001, 02:19 AM
??? ???? ??
------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I run the 60 GB off the Sonnet card, and just format it the regular way, not turning off the Ultra DMA and leave the original 6GB where it is now. Does that mean i would not need to use speed tools ?

if so would i need to install that firewire thingy in speed tools?


gary

gary hill
02-12-2001, 05:17 AM
hi

what is the difference between the Sonnet Tempo Ultra ATA/66 PCI IDE Hard Drive Controller and the Sonnet Tempo Ultra ATA/66 PCI IDE RAID 0/1 Hard Drive Controller ?(aside from the price)

what is better for my situation?

thanks gary

jorge
02-12-2001, 08:18 AM
Get the Sonnet ATA/66 card. Don't bother with the raid 0/1 model.

Use the Speed tools to format the 60 GB drive and run the Integrity diagnostic program on the 60 GB after it has been installed and formated. Great way to test for any corruption and stability.

j

magician
02-12-2001, 02:12 PM
you can use SpeedTools or Apple Drive Setup at your option. There is no need for the FireWire extension to be installed unless you are also using SpeedTools to handle FireWire hard drives.

gary hill
02-12-2001, 08:13 PM
hi again

im starting to wonder,should i get the $ back for my computer,eat the loss,then
buy a scsi adapter and a scsi drive? they seem exspensive,however for the long term and video it may be worth it.or is it?


gary

Michael
02-13-2001, 11:20 AM
scsi drives are certainly the bomb though i am also using my new powerbook to do video editing and that's an ide drive. so far no problem.

M

gary hill
02-13-2001, 01:58 PM
hi

well it will cost me about $500.00 (including loss on 60gb) for a cheetha 18 gb
and an adaptec 160 lvd card( i think it is the 29160 mac model).is it worth 500$(cdn). the inito miles scsi accelorator card seems much cheaper would that be a wiser choice than the adaptec?


even more confused
gary

gary hill
02-13-2001, 02:45 PM
oh yes it would probablly cost me about $200 or $300 more for the cheetah and initio miles , a couple of bucks more then going sonnet ata 66 .

what do you think about the , advances 80 mg card(asb-3940.u2w),is that a good card and would it work with the cheetah and g3?


gary

magician
02-13-2001, 07:34 PM
I think it makes little sense to use a garbage card like the Advansys with a premier drive like a Cheetah.

the right way to use a Cheetah in a vintage machine is with a Miles2. In a New World machine, we still think the best controller is the ATTO, either UL3D or UL3S.

I wouldn't waste my time with an Adaptec board. Eventually it will cause you grief. I've seen it too many times, and it has happened to me one time too many--but never again. I learned my lesson.

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

gary hill
02-14-2001, 04:47 AM
hi

whats a new world and old world computer?

whats a b+w g3?

gary

magician
02-14-2001, 06:54 AM
a New World Mac refers to those that use the so-called "New World architecture" with ROM-in-RAM and other enhancements. It's a blanket way of referring to the Blue and White G3 (aka B&W) or Yosemite, the iMac, the Cube, the iBook, the Titanium PowerBook G4, the Graphite G4 PCI (aka Yikes) and the Graphite G4 AGP (aka Sawtooth, original and digital audio versions).

the term vintage Power Macs refers to the previous generation, including the Beige G3, the 9600, 8600, 9500, 8500, 7600, 7500, 7300, and derivative clones.

gary hill
02-14-2001, 07:24 AM
hi

is this, the ATTO ExpressPCI Single-Channel Ultra3 SCSI Host Bus Adapter , the one that would best go with the cheetah 30 gb and my b+w mac?

and what if i buy it and it still doesnt run final cut ?
does that come with a cable?

can i return them if they dont ?


gary

magician
02-14-2001, 12:41 PM
the ATTO UL3S will work very well in the Yosemite, and is a natural match for a Cheetah. The ATTO does not include a cable. You will need to order a cable and terminator separately, depending on whether your drive is internal or external.

An ATTO UL3D and a Cheetah 36GB LVD drive will work well for FCP.

our returns policies are discussed on our warranties (http://www.macgurus.com/graphics/mgwarranties.html) page.

gary hill
02-14-2001, 07:38 PM
hi
so if i buy Seagate Cheetah 18.4GB Ultra 160 4MB cache 10000rpm and an ATTO Express PCI Single-Channel Ultra3 SCSI Host Bus Adapter will i need a cable and a bracket?
my g3 only has 1 bracket for the factory harddrive.

gary

IP: Logged

magician
02-15-2001, 04:11 AM
if you plan to install internally, you will need a cable and a terminator. No bracket is required. You use four screws, included with the drive, to install directly onto the drive tray inside the machine. The cable you will need is either the GD4800 or the GD1200 from our internal cables (http://www.macgurus.com/shoppingcart/obj_show_page.cgi?mgscsiteflonintcables.html) page, depending on whether you want to support just one drive or two. If you want one drive now, and the flexibility to add another in the future, get the GD1200.

you will also need a GD6299 diagnostic terminator, sold on the same page.

gary hill
02-16-2001, 01:53 AM
hi

wow,this scsi stuff gets expensive,i think ill try the sonnet ata66 ,and save my $for the new g4 733 mhz when they go down in price.


gary

gary hill
02-20-2001, 05:37 PM
hi again

i was offered a good deal on a lacie firewire external hard drive that is said to be av compatible,for exchange for my deckstar 60gb.what do you guys think of this?
if i do get it should i use the firewire plug-in that comes with speed tools?and should i reintialize the lacie using speed tools?

gary

jorge
02-20-2001, 07:57 PM
If you run the 60 Gb drive on the Sonnet card, you will get about 25 MB reads and writes. The Lacie Firewire drive will yield 12 MB reads and writes. No comparsion if you ask me. For video editing, you want the fastest throughtput you can afford.

j

magician
02-20-2001, 09:35 PM
if you do get it, you should absolutely use SpeedTools instead of Silverlining.

gary hill
02-22-2001, 08:09 AM
hi

well as some of you already know im going scsi. now should i keep all of my applications ,including final cut on my factory 6gb drive? and use my scsi drive
just for captured video,sound,and editing?

gary

jorge
02-22-2001, 09:21 AM
yes,

what SCSI setup are you going with?

j

gary hill
02-23-2001, 03:54 AM
1 ATTO ExpressPCI Single-Channel Ultra3 $349.99 $349.99
SCSI Host Bus Adapter
1 Seagate Cheetah 36.7GB Ultra 160 $579.99 $579.99

1 GD1200 Three 68MD on 26-inch LVD Ribbon $80.99 $80.99
Cable

1 GD6299 68-pin MicroD LVD Active $99.00 $99.00
Diagnostic Termination

jorge
02-23-2001, 12:17 PM
awesome,

you will not be disapointed.

j

gary hill
02-27-2001, 05:26 PM
hi

i recieved my scsi stuff today (feb 27), i borrowed my electrician friends wrist static gaurd. how do i do this? it looks quite straightforward ,does it matter which of the two middle plug-in adapters on the ribbon connect with the hard drive? (i assume that the plug-in adapters at both ends of the cable go into the pci card and the diagnost.
does it matter which slot the pci card goes into?
i assume i install the new drive in the space immediately next to the factory drive ?
should i install atto express tools software or intech speed tools?
how should i initialize the cheetah?

gary

Louie
02-27-2001, 05:53 PM
Gary; the drive should be connected to the connector next to the terminator. The extra connector should be between the drive and the ATTO card.

I think that the PCI slot matters not on the New World machines.

Probably the best approach is to install the ATTO card and before connecting any cables or drives, verify that the card has the latest firmware. If it needs updating, flash the card before connecting anything to it.

I'm not an ATTO person, but I assume Magician would recommend using the ATTO software because it's faster.

[This message has been edited by Louie (edited 27 February 2001).]

jorge
02-27-2001, 06:30 PM
Here are the latest updates:

ftp://ftp.macgurus.com//ftp/atto_stuff/ExpressPro-Tools2.5/

ftp://ftp.macgurus.com//ftp/atto_stuff/ExpressPCI UL3 Updater 1.6.3U

If you can't access the ftp site using an ftp program like fetch or Interarchy, here are the links via version tracker:
http://www.versiontracker.com/redir.fcgi/kind=1&id=529/index.html
http://www.versiontracker.com/redir.fcgi/kind=1&id=528/index.html

Install the drive near the internal drive. Connect the terminator on the end of the cable. Connect the closest to the terminator connector to the drive. Install the Atto card in any available slot. Connect the last connector of the cable to the card. Double check your connections and make sure the power plug is connected to the drive and boot.

Launch the 1.6.3 updater and update the card.

Then using ExpressPro tools 2.5, set up the drive.

oops sorry Louie, should of hit the refesh button.

j

[This message has been edited by jorge (edited 27 February 2001).]

magician
02-27-2001, 06:41 PM
that should do it.

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

gary hill
02-28-2001, 04:41 AM
hi

ok i installed everything,everything went smoothly.
i updated the 1.6.3 on the atto and i updated the 2.5 on the express pro tools.
i created a new volume on the cheetah.
here is some info: max size mb: 35003
desired size mb: 35003
mode page optimization: digital video
mac os extended
install driver
initialize (mac volume)

i did not or was un able to chose:
low level format
canister (psedo removable)


are these preferences correct? (for video editing)

it seems to run well i tested a short avi,qtime mov and a wav and a textfile.

tommorrow i will install final cut 1.2.5 and give it a shot.

it seems to take longer for start-up is that a problem?

im nervous and excited.

thanks
gary

ps. it sounds like a jet!

jorge
02-28-2001, 07:23 AM
gary,

the reason it seems longer to start up, is the machine scans all the SCSI IDs on the Atto card looking for a boot volume. Even though the internal IDE is selected, the machine always does a scan.

j

Louie
02-28-2001, 12:10 PM
It looks at 15 ID's related to the ATTO card.

magician
02-28-2001, 09:25 PM
sounds like you are doing fine. What utility did you use to create the volume? ATTO Tools? Or something else?

gary hill
03-01-2001, 12:35 AM
hi

i uesd atto pro tools is that good?

icant install final cut till next tuesday so the big test will have to wait till then,which sucks, however ive been at this for a few months now so i can wait another week.

on another note im trying to get a full refund on the ibm deckstar (the store wants to take $225.00 for depreciation),however it never really worked on my computer and i did go back on day one and again and again....i bought it from the university co-op so i have a good shot at. i also work for for the 3-d animation NT lab at our school and we buy tons of stuff off them. i dont think they knew that,but now they do. i think they think im a moron when i talk with them. ah fuck em.i just want to make weird videos.


gary


ps check this out http://www.media100.com/product/m100/m100rfeproduct.html
cool eh?

jorge
03-01-2001, 09:48 AM
I hear you Gary.

Pre sales, everyone is grand, run into a problem, and your screwed. Really wish MacGurus sold cars, houses, groceries, network stuff, nuclear submarines, etc.

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

j

Louie
03-01-2001, 01:05 PM
I know tanks and helicopters better than submarines.

magician
03-01-2001, 10:58 PM
too bad bombs, boobytraps, and .50 cal long-range sniping systems aren't appropriate for mass sales. I'd almost rather sell that stuff, too.

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ATTO Tools is fine. Hopefully you paid for the drive you want to return on a credit card? If so, just return it, then tell the credit card company you want to execute a charge-back. They will refund your money in full. Just make sure you get the name of the person to whom you return the merchandise.

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

gary hill
03-03-2001, 04:34 PM
hi

what about gerbils?

gary

gary hill
03-07-2001, 05:03 AM
hi all

so i installed final cut 1.2.5 and media cleaner 4.03 and it worked with large quicktime movies (1-6 minutes) both playing and rendering.a little stuttering (4 times) on the final cut playback.however quicktime movies arent the greatist to edit,straight from the camera is (or as tony montana says "with pureo you cant lose"). as for the capture there were problems but that may be with the camera,its a panosonic and although the final cut pro site says that this camera brand is compatible with fcp,i have to do more research(it did work on imovie2, no problemo but that isnt as demanding a program as fcp). soon i will try a sony cam to see,they are more popular and i belive more compatible. but when it does work this scsi stuff seems to be quite stable.things are so far looking promising however i must resolve the camera-capture issue.

gary

gary hill
03-07-2001, 03:12 PM
hi

i found out this about the panasonic camera:
http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/techspecs/addinfo.html

i will try these setting when i get home latter.

gary

gary hill
03-08-2001, 04:47 AM
hi

i adjusted the plug-ins for the panisonic mini dv on fcp and it did capture,render and play the video! however it didnt capture the sound, i presume its a panasonic issue,i will keep trying to solve this audio issue with the panisonic. by next wendsday ill have a sony digital 8 it should work. other then this things are still looking promising.

im almost there!(knock on wood)
gary

jorge
03-08-2001, 11:00 AM
yes, the sound output is a camera issue. Scroll through the flimsy menus on the camera.

j

gary hill
03-12-2001, 05:37 AM
hi

i worked again with fcp and the panisonic and suddenly it wouldn't capture anything and it crashed a few times. so i reduced the memory allocation to 150 mb on fcp,fiddled with the preference settings on fcp and set 1 of the cameras setting to scene as opposed to still and try capturing a different way,and it captured both video and sound ! im happy now!(knock on wood)
final cut can be a tricky and buggy program however so far the scsi stuff seems to tame it (knock on blue plastic).i will continue the experements.......


thanks
gary

ps the computer store gave me a refund (in credit) in the difference in what they refunded back to me and what i paid for the deckstar.i think this is a fair compromise.

gary hill
03-13-2001, 07:37 AM
hi


panisonic cameras suck! you cant input from vcr,in this day and age,its a goddamn shame, a well its my brothers and he got it as a christmas gift from his girlfriend, she was probablly bamboozled by a slick salesman. in my experience sony hand-corders are better easier and cheaper.

rantingly yours
gary