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viorel
02-27-2001, 07:04 PM
Sorry to bring the level of the discution to elementary but could you help me understand the Fuse, in context ?

Maybe it is just a matter of semantics, but I do not import video, so I tend to think there is nothing to capture with a capture card
This is what I do instead :
Render a QT movie in Cinema4d, take it into AfterEffects for further editing, and render another QT movie, with the intention
of output to tape. Problem is, with my MT G3 266, I can playback from HD fluid movies only at 320x240.
This is why I think I need the Fuse: 640x480, faster, for output to VCR.
Correct me if I am wrong.

If I am not,
how do you use the Fuse in conjuction with AE ?
Set it up to render from AE, or re-render the QT movies with the Fuse?
I am trying to extrapolate, without succes, from the downloaded Fuse PDF manual.
I would be really grateful for a succint description of the actual process.

I appreciate your expert help,

and patience.

magician
02-27-2001, 11:10 PM
you are correct. You need the Fuse to output VHS-quality video to tape.

you may also need a faster drive, but you probably know all that from reading about the Fuse on our site--right?

you work as you do now. When your final project is rendered, you simply point your application to your external VHS VCR using the Fuse as the interface and print to tape.

viorel
02-28-2001, 09:42 AM
Thank you for your reply.

Let me see if I understand this:

If I want 640x480, do I render at in AE at 640x480 even if the backplays from HD is jerky (regardless of the quality of the render),
and output through the fuse to VHS at te desired fluid 640x480 ?

Yes, I am aware of the SCSI drive aspect.
Any suggestions for a SCSI card and an EXTERNAL SCSI drive to go with my Beige MT G3?

Thank you again.

sDAVIS
02-28-2001, 05:17 PM
I am not familiar with the Fuse but I do have some answers to your AE questions. First, yes render at 640x480, this is standard NTSC format (ie VHS) One reason you might be getting jerky playback in your QT players is you do not have enough memory assigned to the QT app.. Try that. Also your drive might not have enough sustained throughput. Depending on your final intention for viewing (small telivision, big screen projected TV, etc.) you can play with your compression scheme. I believe the default codec is Animation at highest level. This coded gives you the best all around product but creates a massive file (I routinely have 2 gig files using this codec for 1-2 min. pieces in AE) In your AE help menu look up "compression" for the lowdown on all the AE supported schemes. Lately I have been tinkering with MJPEG-B and have yet not been able to see much of a difference on the small screen; but MJPEG-B creates much, much smaller files. As
far as outputting to VHS, you will need some sort of capture card or if you have firewire you can output to MINI-DV and then dub to VHS.

viorel
02-28-2001, 08:29 PM
Thank you for your reply, really useful.

...since you mentioned MINI-DV (I think I can add FIreWire to my MT G3), what is the general strategy?
I was under the impression the MINI-DVD is used for output on CD.
If you can dub to VHS (how?) it seems that you can have the best of both worlds.

Thanks.

magician
02-28-2001, 09:29 PM
that is good advice. Allocate more memory, or get a bigger, faster SCSI subsystem.

we believe it is better to install internally, and have a page (http://www.macgurus.com/graphics/mgwhichscsiadapters3.html) in the SPoD explaining why.

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

viorel
03-01-2001, 10:17 AM
I have 512MB of memory.

I read what you think about internal versus external SCSI, and I am sure you're right, but I also looked at the enclosures.

Would I go wrong w. 2 Cheetahs in ENCLOSURE, and an INITIO MILES2 LVD kit w. SOFTRAID?
Do you see a problem moving the whole system to a new G4, later?
Because if you can, I see it as a real plus.

Again, right now I have an MT G3 (MaxPower G4)rev.1., and trying to squeeze as much as possible out of it.

Louie
03-01-2001, 01:04 PM
You could move that combo to a new machine, however, the ATTO U3S or U3D will be faster than the Miles 2 in the beige G3 and newer machines. The Initio Miles U2W is the fastest in older machines.

kaye
03-01-2001, 02:37 PM
v,

I am going thru the exercise of planning out a Gurus external RAID box and have noticed an interesting dilema. As Louie says, the Miles2 kit solution is the fastest for a vintage Mac. I have tried both the Miles2 and the ATTO UL3D cards in a vintage Mac.

Also, as Louie says, the ATTO UL3S or UL3D surpasses the Miles2 in Beige G3 and far out surpasses the Miles2 in even later boxes. Both the ATTO UL3S and UL3D, only on their external backplane, have connectors that ATTO calls VHDCI 68, in other words, Very High Density 68-pin connectors, and magician calls 68-pin .8mm "Champ" (Very High Density). I knew these were on UL3D but had to download a bunch of ATTO pdf files to find out about the UL3S.

This makes external cable SCSI card to RAID box selection important because the Miles2 uses the standard 68-pin MicroD external connector. There is no 68-pin .8mm "Champ" (Very High Density) to standard 68-pin MicroD adapter that I can find and these external Gurus Granite external cables are expensive. So you pretty much have to decide which card, Miles2 or ATTO card, you intend to use for now and for later, unless the extra $160-248 for a cable to match the ATTO card later is in your budget. Hope I have not muddied the waters further. k

viorel
03-01-2001, 09:42 PM
On the contrary, I am grateful for further clarification.

Not a boring moment...

I don't have $240 floating around for a cable, but the priority IS using it now AND later.
Question is, how much faster is the ATTO ? Enough to make it worth the $240 for later use?

magician
03-01-2001, 11:17 PM
definitely worth it, in my opinion.

the primary drawback of the Miles2 in later systems is the fact that it hits a sustained write ceiling of 40MB/sec which is not present in the ATTO boards. A pair of Cheetah X15's will get you superb performance in either bG3 or New World machine when used with an ATTO, with sustained reads and writes around 75MB/sec.

the interesting thing about the UL3S, is that it is built on exactly the same board as the UL3D. You see the spare, vacant pads used by the UL3D on the UL3S. Both, as a consequence, use the smaller .8mm champ connector on the backplane rather than the more common 68-pin MicroD.

that connector raises the cost of an external Granite cable by $20-40 or so. They are definitely pricey. But, when you are spending $350-$500 on your host, and $450 on your drives, cabling is not the place to economize. The performance delivered by this hardware is better than anything available from any other vendor that we know about, as is the quality.

k, make sure you run your shopping list past me before you submit the order.

hope this helps?

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

kaye
03-02-2001, 12:38 AM
v,

I agree with magician. And either way you are going to need an external Granite cable, the smaller .8mm champ connector on one end of the external Granite cable being just a little bit more expensive. If now and later is the deciding factor, get the ATTO UL3S or UL3D. Either will perform much better in the later box, and nearly as well in the now box. In fact, the UL3S might just be as fast, I only have the UL3D, and the overhead of dual-channel in a vintage Mac may be why I can't quite get it to equal the Miles2. I tried the UL3D with striped drives connected to one channel only and with striped drives connected to both channels. Am salivating to try a UL3D with striped X15's in a New World machine.

magician, I will, just haven't finished the list. k

viorel
03-02-2001, 08:43 AM
Could you indicate under what name can I find this particular cable you a re mentioning, on the Guru's order list?

In the meantime, I think I am missing something.
I am missing something.

For one thing, where do I find the exact cable you are mentioning on Guru's site, order time comes?

And for another, please clarify for me:
why does it matter what machine do I use the connector on if the connector on the Granite cable is always attached to the same ATTO board? Don't we take the whole combo to a different machine, if we want to do that?

(The more advanced the discution, the more retarded my questions.)

viorel
03-02-2001, 08:45 AM
...Pardon the stuttering...

kaye
03-02-2001, 01:23 PM
v,

I just got to this thread, and now House Goddess is calling and stamping her foot. I live in fear around here. Gotta go, not enough time to answer your questions. Hopefully magician will pass thru here but Louie and I kept him up very late last night. Will get back in a few hours. k

sDAVIS
03-02-2001, 03:16 PM
To dub to VHS from Mini-DV (I assume you will be inputing through firewire into your computer with a Mini-DV camera) run the cables from the camera (usually it is a mini plugin the camera) to the video + audio connections on just about any VHS deck (the connectors are usually RCA nowadays) If the VHS deck uses S-video cable (usually mid to higer end decks) conect the video between the camera and the VHS deck with a good quality s-video cable (you can get these at Radio Shack) and use the mini to RCA for the audio. Then it is just a matter of hitting play on the camera and record on the VHS deck. The beuty is that since Mini-DV is such a higher quality format than VHS the generational loss is next to nothing. Sorry but I missed one step on how to get it onto Mini-DV. I bring the rendered AE file into Final Cut Pro and then record to the Mini-DV camera. FCP integrates with firewire exceptionalyy well.

kaye
03-02-2001, 03:17 PM
v,

Go here http://www.macgurus.com/shoppingcart/obj_show_page.cgi?mgscsicables.8mm.html and what you want is:

68-pin .8mm to 68-pin MicroD Diagnostic Gold External SCSI Cables:
GD4911 Ext. 68-pin .8mm to 68-pin MicroD 3-ft. Cable $159.99 ea
or
GD3100 Ext. 68-pin .8mm to 68-pin MicroD 6-ft. Cable $197.99 ea
or
GD4200 Ext. 68-pin .8mm to 68-pin MicroD 10-ft. Cable $247.99 ea

The 68-pin .8mm end of these cables connects to the external SCSI connector of the ATTO card and the 68-pin MicroD end connects to the external SCSI connector of the enclosure. Pick the cable with the shortest length that will still allow for convenient location somewhere near your computer.

This cable, the external enclosure, and the ATTO board will allow you to go with a bG3 or higher with no additional purchases. One of the examples I gave was for a situation where you purchased a Miles2 now and an ATTO later, necessitating a change of external cables.

Some other things to remember, the ATTO card does not come with SoftRAID. It does come with a driver for initializing drives but the ATTO RAID software is not included either. If you are not going to RAID the Cheetahs, then you have the necessary software. If you intend to RAID and you want to use SoftRAID, then the Gurus have that also. Last for now, the Gurus enclosures need parts added for LVD drives. When you get to that, I can help and others can too, with magician overseeing to be sure everything is correct. k

magician
03-02-2001, 04:23 PM
ok, I'm up.

everything looks fine here.

I'm going back to bed.

(not really.)

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

viorel
03-02-2001, 07:50 PM
I needed to sit down and regain composure.
I didn't expect such a welth of helpful in-depth information.

The ATTO card, enclosure,and cable are clear now at least in theoretical terms. Thank you kay and magician.

I am really blown away by the Mini-DV alternative , though. Thanks,sDavis.
I started asking about the capture card, but it seems that with a camcorder, FCP and a VHS deck you can have both digital and analog AE animations, high quality. More expensive than a Fuse, but more capable, also .

I'll wait to add them all up on Monday, so that I don't spoil a peaceful, working weekend.

Grateful for the insights.

viorel
03-04-2001, 12:34 PM
Just one more question.

I went over the sDavis' helpful answer to my AE / DV question.
It ends "I bring the rendered AE file into Final Cut Pro and then record to the Mini-DV camera"

If the AE movie is fully edited and ready to go, can't you go directly to Mini-DV?

Thanks again

MacMikester
03-04-2001, 01:46 PM
FCP gives you camera control and other digital editing options that are not available in AE. I am not a pro user, but I think that's the short answer.

viorel
03-04-2001, 03:09 PM
I wonder if it doesn't have to do with some luck of communication between AE and Mini-DV.

sDAVIS
03-05-2001, 04:01 PM
AE renders out into a Quicktime file. I do not know (I've never tried it) if you can hit record on your camera and then start the QT playing. I ques is that you can not. I would think that you need a program that will direct the QT file towards the firewire linked device (ie your camera/VTR) FCP (as does Media 100, Avid) does this, plus it does give you remote control of most firewire cameras/VTRs.

sDAVIS
03-05-2001, 04:04 PM
One other very helpful hint. Go to www.creativemac.com (http://www.creativemac.com) under the forums there is a specific AE page. This is incredibly helpful (it is also were I learned about this site)