View Full Version : Network biege G3, new G4

Demian Cain
01-27-2001, 12:29 AM
I would like to network my new G4/466 http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif to my not-so-new G3/233 (clocked to 266). I am not new to mac, but am definitely a newbie to ethernet networking (simple localtalk/phone net connection between two biege G3's and a laserjet under OS 8.1 was my greatest achievement).

The G4 is in my office, and the G3 is in my secretary's space, approximately 75 ft away. The distance is not a straight shot, and a room, as well as hall space lie between the two locations (there is crawl space above--and I do mean *crawl*). I want to use the ethernet ports on each machines, as even the 10baseT on the G3 must surely blow away local talk (I hope). Besides, I will not be transfering lots of large files. Rather, access to accounting software, schedule and contacts (Now contact/utd), WP docs, and ability to back up secretaries machine, if possible, are my main concerns. Oh yeah, I also want to show-up my Wintel colleague http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/cool.gif , as he and I both refuse to switch platforms, leaving our secretary to master two different machines. Besides, he has trouble hooking up telephones!

My goals are low cost (will buy cable [and hub if I include printer]) and to complete the job myself. I am seeking basic how-to information/sources of information, and general tips/comments/suggestions. Also, is 75' too far? Should I use cable (and what kind) and run it through ceiling crawl space, or is there a reasonably priced wireless option for me (don't think the G3 can do airport, maybe some kind of pci solution?). If I have neglected to provide sufficient information, please don't hesitate to ask.

If I could have everything, I would also like to set up an inexpensive camera in the reception area (26' x 8.5') that I could monitor from my machine. The reception area is on the far side of my secretaries space (approx 75' away). Certainly not a must, but thought I would ask nonetheless. The camera would certainly turn my Wintel colleague green with envy, and I would love to tell him, "oh, it was easy, but I have no idea how you'd do that on your machine." http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/tongue.gif

Thanks Gurus!

01-27-2001, 01:04 AM
Hello DC,

The long story:

Well the macs are VERY network savy and extremely easy to set up and get to talk to eachother. Figuring out which hardware you need and physcially setting it up will (should) be the hardest part.

Cable runs: 75' is not too long, but you will need to get good cabeling (called CAT5). Also, you will need to get a better measurement on how long it will actually be running. 75' as you walk, but to go up into the crawl space around the walls etc. will add up quickly. I do believe that there are PCI airport cards but another member, ChrisYip, will be able to answer that better as I think he has done it. Not sure if the office setup at 75' will be the best application as it can be interfered with and slow things down to a crawl.

hub/switch: If you are even thinking about adding in more devices as you go along later (Camera, Printer, collegue's machine) then I would DEFINATELY get a hub instead of a crossover cable for the two machines. Plus, if you want to run drvices farther away (that camera another 75' from the secretary) you will reduce your cable lengths. From the situation you have described, it sounds like the secretary is in the middle of all this so that would be a good place for the hub/switch.

If you aren't familiar with the Crossover cable, it is a ethernet cable that is wired opposite at either end so that it will correctly connect 2 computers independently. Without this cable, you cannot go machine to machine without a hub (and 2 normal cables). Likewise, you cannot go from machine to hub with this cable

You didn't mention if you were thinking of internet access through the network also. If so, then you will want to get a combination switch/router/firewall since that will protect the network from the outside and allow multiple users to share the internet connection (i.e. a cable or DSL service typically only includes one address for one computer at a time. This will allow everyone to use that address). I've seen Asante devices for $180.

Printer: To hook up the printer to the network, it will either have to be a network printer that has an ethernet jack in it (or able to be put in it), or you will need a print server to bridge between the printer interface and the network. They are also pretty cheap now a days.

Camera: I've seen them. At my university we were fooling around with stand alone network cameras to monitor the computer labs. Theyjust mounted anywhere and had an ethernet jack in the back (as well as power). Simple, and all you would need is the software to interface with it.

Once you get the network set up, it will be an appletalk network. Set appletalk control panel to etherrnet, enable file sharing, and away you go. The printer and the camera will have software and/or settings that will be device specific, but should have instructions. For the internet, again device specific with each switch/ISP, but that will all be set in the TCP/IP control panel.

The short story:

Yes you can do it, and it will be pretty easy. :-)

What else do yo need to know?


Demian Cain
01-27-2001, 02:40 AM

Thanks much for the Guruesque response. It was very helpful and encouraging. I hadn't even thought about the shared internet access (since we can only get dial-up service presently), but should have DSL in the not-to-distant future. Great advice, sounds like planning for future needs is a key component to the networking gig. Also, I will make sure to get the CAT5 cable. Is that something I can buy in bulk, then press/crimp connectors to thereafter, or must I buy the cable in pre-set lengths? Is 10baseT adequately fast for the uses I mentioned (access to a few small programs/files, light traffic) or would it be worth looking into a 100baseT PCI card for the G3? Will speed be a big factor with a camera? I guess I can try it at 10T and move up if needed.

I *think* I have the printer handled, as I purchased a Farallon EtherMac iPrint Adapter LT several days ago to hook up a HP 6MP to a new G4 (no serial port). The adapter works great and requires no additional software. According to the box, I can also plug it into a hub. The printer does not have a network card, however, so will another ethernet-equiped Mac be able to access it via the hub?

Thanks again for the help, and your time!

01-27-2001, 05:47 AM
yep, just get a hub, and run patch cables from all devices to it, and you will be able to share everything.

rather than build custom cable, it is best to just buy good, expensive CAT5 10/100BT ethernet cable with sturdy plastic connector shrouds. Definitely give some consideration to where you want to position your hub (put it inbetween everything), and then you only need to run from each computer to the hub, which will shorten your cable distances somewhat.

as for cameras....you may want to check into the permissible FireWire and USB cable distances....even consider a FireWire repeater....as you could conceivably just attach a FireWire camera to your G4 and open up a video conferencing app and see what's happening in the office. There should be no problem using a long FireWire cable and a repeater with a FireWire camera to do what you desire.

[This message has been edited by magician (edited 09 February 2001).]

01-27-2001, 02:14 PM
IPNetRouter http://www.sustworks.com/ is a great software router, DHCP server, firerwall, etc. that even now allows sharing dial-up services as well as DSL, Cable, etc. You can secure it by using a second Ethernet channel in the machine running the app.

Demian Cain
01-29-2001, 07:45 PM
Great ideas Gurus! I am checking out all the options now. I got a reduced version of the building's blueprints (for accurate measurements) to diagram my cable routing plans. You have all been a great help!

02-01-2001, 02:50 AM
I would again like to mention that the new G4's (My 733 is on order, so I can't confirm) are supposed to be able to use a standard Ethernet cable as a crossover cable. The machine senses whether you are connected to a computer or hub/switch.

I do agree with what was said though. For the printer, if it's LocalTalk, you can likely get a Farallon iPrint LT (I actually have one to sell if you're interested). My experience has been great with the device.

02-09-2001, 08:06 PM
For whatever value: I have 2 Win 98 PCs, one NT box, a Linux box and two Macs running 9.0.4 (though 8.x was fine too) which share a DSL line (everyone is attached to a hub). The DSL line is 'handled' by a Cisco 675 which is running NAT (network address translation). I am using 10.0.0.x addresses on the machines, though DHCP would probably work just fine too. The NT box does not yet have the 'Mac share patch' which will let the PCs and Macs read/write to a shared folder. It's all pretty much plug and play, and indeed the Macs network very well (just use the Network Browser in the Apple menu to 'discover' your network). My point is that not only is it easy to get your Macs networked and online, but they can even talk to the PCs.