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revi
01-10-2001, 06:12 PM
I am running a 500MHz XLR8 G3 chip on a beige (Gossamer) Apple G3 and would like to use Connectix's Virtual PC. Are you aware of any reason that I shouldn't? All Wintel jokes aside, Rhino3D is a good program (http://www.rhino3d.com), only runs on Windows, but it purportedly runs on Virtual PC. Also, if you are aware, is there any reason to prefer the Win98 version over the Win2000, or vice-versa? Thank you in advance.

ChrisYip
01-10-2001, 10:09 PM
Using VPC 4.0 on a number of machines from an iMac 233 to a Lombard 333 to a G4/450 and a G3/400 machine and no problems - the expandable hard drive images are terrific. Using the Win98 version and my brother's lovely 4 days of hell downgrading-upgrading-install-de-install wintel fiasco doesn't make me want to even try to install WinME even under VPC...

But it works like a champ - networking, USB stuff - everything - I'm writing some serial port data acquisition software using RealBasic and can test out the cross-compile between WinTel and MacOS by keeping VPC up and simply sharing a folder.. Terrific tool (now - to get a G4/PB w/ that 15.2 " screen so I can view both desktops...

Chris

revi
01-10-2001, 10:18 PM
Chris,

Thank you for the plethora of info...I've heard that W2K is pretty decent: do you think it would be worth the wait for the VPC 4 version?

Thanks again,

revi

ChrisYip
01-10-2001, 11:58 PM
Hmmm - depends I suppose on how critical it is for your application. I may be mistaken but I think the Win2K is built on the NT platform? vs Win98/95 so I think there may be some benefits to that. Since VPC is emulation, if Win2K is more demanding of the system resources than say Win98 then your performance will suffer. Now, in terms of usability - not sure. I think that the site http://www.macwindows.com might have more details on comparing performance between the two.
You can always simply clone up a new virtual drive and install WinME on that one and test out your app that way. - that's the beauty of VPC - the multiple drive OS options.

The biggest must-have for VPC - TONS of RAM - the more the merrier and lots of disk space.

Hope this helps

Chris.

revi
01-11-2001, 12:47 AM
Chris,

Again, Thanks for the feedback. In my vocation (web applications) and avocations (audio, video and 3d) I have to deal with all flavors (Mac, Lose..er..Win, and Unix), and I'd have to say that NT is definitely less flakey than '98 (this may be damning by faint praise...) so I'd wager that the 2K stuff should perform better..albeit at a resource premium, and as regards resources...it's like the old gearhead slogan: "ain't no replacement for displacement"...they must have foreseen the Evil Empire.

Are any of your machines running accelerators? This is one issue that makes me wonder. Finally, and forgive any flagrant ignorance, but this ReaBasic is a VB emulator for Mac?

I appreciate the info.

revi

Tylor
01-11-2001, 01:03 AM
Windows NT was developed for things like servers, along with W2K as far as I know, so it can't afford to be too flakey. Hell, they installed it on a damned submarine! I'm praying it isn't the same unstable OS that normal Windows is.

revi
01-11-2001, 01:17 AM
Win2K is an attempt to make NT less of a pain (in particular, hardware support). Truth be told, NT isn't bad, and it isn't great either. Here's a test, try running ColdFusion (www.allaire.com (http://www.allaire.com)) on VPC. CF is a genuinely cool, originally PC, web application server (now also available on several Unix flavours).

As regards the old Mac vs. PC debate, here's a real flamer of a fight:
http://www.netslaves.com/comments/977438367.shtml

I responded using the 'revi' tag myself (please forgive my punctuation errors). I hope I don't get into too much trouble for posting this!

Thanks All!

-revi

ChrisYip
01-11-2001, 07:42 AM
NT - we have it running in the lab using Service Pack 6 and it's pretty happy. We have one Win98 machine that is just a dog - it's supposed to be a PIII 350 but it's awful. There has to be something configured wrong - it spends all day drive thrashing

As for Real Basic - yes it is a VB-like object oriented software package. (http:///www.realsoftware.com) Works really well and is just like VB. You simply write stuff like VB on your Mac and when you compile it, simply check Windows and Mac and you get both executables. There are some minor flakey things like Windows need CR and LF etc but you can convert VB projects into RB projects and run them on your Mac (sort of) - I haven't figured out how .dll files work yet and how you can include them in Real Basic projects.

But it works well, is relatively fast, and there is a fairly active community out there of developers. Akin to Codewarrior which has C++ and Java cross-compilers.

Oh - and re accelerators - we have VPC running on a G3/400 upgraded 7300 (XLR8) and it's fine. - machine has I think 244 MB RAM - our G4/350 machine has 256 MB. I'm not using the stock SCSI drive though - the machine runs off a Miles2 board (from the 'gurus) and two 7200 rpm 'Cudas under SoftRaid so that helps immensely

Chris.

revi
01-11-2001, 10:45 PM
Chris,

Indeed, many thanks for the info...given that VPC does hardware emulation, I thought there might be the opportunity for conflicts with an accelerator. The boxes I'm thinking of running this on are a Gossamer G3 (512MB RAM) with a 500MHz XLR8 chip (from the 'Gurus) with a couple of old UW drives (including a first generation 10K IBM that sounds like a jet taking off) and a 7600 (336MB RAM) with (the G3's old) 300MHz chip on a CarrierZIF card with a Miles2 and 7200 'Cuda (the last three from the 'Gurus), so I think I've got the resource side covered

As regards NT, given the Evil Empire's ubiquity, I've had to deal with a number of webservers (running IIS usually), and yes, if you keep your eyes on them and kick them periodically, they definitely will run. I tell you, man, if you have such a box and you have any interest in web development, check out ColdFusion.

Finally, along with drive swap thrashing, win boxes are easily the dumbest in terms of lousy space management/gargantuan temp file generation: at this one ISP I worked at, there was a desktop box that couldn't figure out how big its drives were (probably a circular directory reference). I used to enjoy running ALT-F-R on the thing and just watch it think that an 850MB drive was infinite in size..850MB..1GB...10GB...it would eventually think the drive was over a couple of Terrabytes!

Thanks Again,

revi

SaltyDog
01-12-2001, 10:12 AM
Folks:

I am very interested in your discussion, as I'm hoping to add VPC 4.0 with Windows ME (based on your comments) to my upgraded 7500 ( 400Mhz G3, 256MB RAM ).

I have a 9 GIG hard drive on order and am wondering if you could talk a bit about how to partition drives and spread files out ( Mac vs PC, or Applications vs. Data ) to get decent thruput.

I've had SoftPC and SoftWindows in the past, and they were dogs. I'm hoping not to repeat the experience due to ignorance.

Thanks, and keep up the great work.

SD

ChrisYip
01-12-2001, 01:09 PM
Hi...

Hmmm - haven't really thought too much about it since in one case, it's running on my laptop and I'm not partitioned...

I think the MacWindows site has info on various options for speeding it up via partitioning etc.. Note that VPC now has dynamic hard drive sizing up so you're not locked into that fixed C-drive size of 250 MB..

Chris