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Mas
12-23-2000, 04:04 AM
I have 3 Quantum Atlus10KII drives (ID-2, ID-1, ID-3 and terminated) with ATTO Express dual channel card on Apple G4 500 Dual. I initialized 3 of them and restarted .
After gray screen comes up but before staring-up icon and window, it freezes. Forced restart didn't solveat all, I tryed almost everything, finally I had to plug the power off to shut down.
I opened my G4 and disconnected all 3 drives, I was able to boot from my startup IDE disk. I reconnected each drives and started up. 2 drives are working fine. Drive(ID-2) is the problem. It takes the power OK, makes starting noise, then it stops operating and the monitor shows freezed but still spining with power. I reconnect and attempt to startup with this drive, but never works, keep freezing up. Is there anythig I can do to fix this? Or do I need to take it back to Quantum to fix? Thanks

Dogstarman
12-23-2000, 10:03 AM
Let's rule out the obvious first. Is there anything on the SCSI bus other than those 3 drives? And how do you know the termination is setup right? Double-check that ONLY the last physical device on the chain has termination enabled and know where the termination circuitry is getting power from. Have you tried starting up with only one drive at a time? Are the drives new or used? Is there another machine you could connect them to to verify that it is the drive? Have you tried switching the ID's? The situation you describe is definitely a SCSI bus problem (as you guessed) and it sounds like either an ID, termination or drive problem. Answer these questions (and whatever the other folks here have to ask) and we'll see where to go from there.

Oh yeah...what are the drive model numbers?

------------------
"The first step in attaining knowledge is admitting you know nothing."

[This message has been edited by Dogstarman (edited 23 December 2000).]

kaye
12-23-2000, 10:12 AM
Great start D. I can only ask if those Quantum Atlus10KII drives are LVD? And what kind of SCSI cabling and terminator are in use? If the drives are LVD, the cabling must be LVD and the terminator must be LVD. k

Dogstarman
12-23-2000, 10:22 AM
Kaye,
As far as I can see on Quantum's poorly laid-out site, all Atlas10K II drives are LVD. I was just coming back to ask the questions you asked. There should be a jumper across pins 27-28 to enable termination power to be sent from the drive to the bus. Othther than that, the only jumpers you should be setting are the ID's.

...Look above for clarification....

[This message has been edited by Dogstarman (edited 23 December 2000).]

kaye
12-23-2000, 11:12 AM
D,

"There should be a jumper across pins 27-28 to enable termination power to be sent from the drive to the bus..."

You don't mean you want that, do you? The ATTO card will provide term power. You don't want the drive/drives to also supply term power. You want a jumper on the drives to allow the bus (ATTO card) to supply term power. Right? Flakey things happen when you have more than one device supplying term power to the bus unless you have a very, very long run. k

Dogstarman
12-23-2000, 11:23 AM
Yikes, No. I was just mentioning that that is the only option for providing any kind of term power from the drive. The ATTO and a terminator SHOULD more than handle the needs of the short bus (The SCSI bus...not the...never mind). I re-read and it sounded like I was advising to do that. Thanks for the proof-read. There is no option for any other termination anything, so one can't even specify where the drive is to take its termination from. Just the ID's should be jumpered. All other pins should be bare. I need another cup of coffee.

Just came from ATTO's site. Try zapping the PRAM from a cold start (Cmd-Opt-P-R during startup until you hear the chime 3 times, then let go). I dunno if this is a new card or not, but putting in and removing cards can corrupt the PRAM (as stated on their site).

[This message has been edited by Dogstarman (edited 23 December 2000).]

Mas
12-23-2000, 02:51 PM
Thanks, kaye and Dogstarman.
First of all, Drive's IDs are 2,1,0 and terminated. I did try changing verious IDs on troubled drive. but no success. And as the ATTO card (came with my G4 DP)provide term power, I notice that first drive (came with my G4 DP) has term power ON and ID-0. The second and the third(problem) are new, purchased separately.
They seem to be identical, the only thing appear different is Rev no. the first drive is DD20, second& third are DA40. DD20 makes more noise when they seek and reading performance is less. What is this? , different drive?

Anyway Dogstarman, there is nothing else other than 3 drives on the SCSI bus. Terminated at the end of chain. As I mentioned above, the drive(ID-0) has term power jumper ON already. Is this right?

And I tried zapping PRAM and other things, but no success, yet. The drive model number is QM336400TY-LW. "QM=Quantum, 3=3.5inch, 36400=capacity, TY=10KII family, and LW=LVD.
Thanks again both of you. Great help!

kaye
12-23-2000, 11:24 PM
Mas,

Remove that term power jumper. Also is your cabling LVD and is the terminator LVD? k

magician
12-23-2000, 11:47 PM
right. Set all drives to draw term power from the bus. Make certain that you are using LVD cabling, with an LVD terminator at the far end.

the fact that two drives work fine, and one does not, suggests that you simply have a defective drive.

it happens, sometimes.

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I would just swap it out. Why waste time with it?

http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Dogstarman
12-23-2000, 11:53 PM
Definitely remove that Term jumper. It shouldn't have been there from the get-go. The drive revisions will make minor differences in drives performance and noise, but to everyone but the most discerning users, I would think that the difference would go unnoticed. And I assume you are using an external terminator provided with the machine?

Not to be a MacGurus advocate, but it could be the cabling or the terminator. Granite cables are the way to go. Seriously. If you have made the investment in the HW like you have, the $200 (or so) for a new cable and terminator is a minimal safeguard. Or at the least, maybe get a brand new cable and try it out. Lots of suggestions, I know. But there are a bunch of specific things that can leads to this.

Have you tried the problem drive as the only device, and on all available connectors on the cable? And are you able to try the drive out on another machine? I know it's the Holidays and all....but maybe that Aunt or Uncle or Nephew has a computer that they'd be willing to give it a shot on. If all this fails, it may bery well be a drive problem that Quantum should be happy to solve for you.

And as for swapping it out right away, well that's always an option. I like to thoroughly exhaust all options before I surrender to the odds that things sometimes are just bad. Most people I know would have already gone and sent it in for an exchange. Probably the wiser route, in the end. Who knows. Either way, let us all know the outcome.

[This message has been edited by Dogstarman (edited 23 December 2000).]

Mas
12-24-2000, 12:16 AM
kaye,
I'm not sure if they are LDV, but they came from Apple. They should be!?
Am I missing somethig? How can I find out? They don't look fancy at all.

By the way, I force the drive working fine now. some reason, I thought that drives takes power, try to seek, then confuses to freeze the computer. I did very scary thing I would never do and recommend at all.
I forced to reconnect the drive into the SCSI chain while system is active. Then Apple's Drive Setup seeked and found unmounted volume. It might have ended... I was scary. I did it at my huge risk. But It's working now. I tested again and again, it's fine, not a single damage at all.

And I wondered why this happened. Before I restarted G4, I was testing out the mode parameter, cache segment. As default, 10KII's segment was 27(SoftRAID indicated, I'm not sure if this is right, anyone know?).
I tried smaller numbers, I wanted to try bigger numbers, I realized SoftRAID didn't support more than 10. I tried FWB Configure( HDT 4), but in page 8 caching, there is no option to change the segment. I did default setting, optimizied and restored factory setting. No success. Can you help me out here. I used Hard Disk Toolkit version 4, OS 9.0.4.

Dogstarman
12-24-2000, 12:35 AM
Mas. Wow.

If that was the first time you used the drive, it may have been "stuck". I have only heard of it once before...but sometimes drives need a nudge to get things going. I would still send it back to Quantum, especially now. I wouldn't trust any data to a device who began its life like that. Poor guy. And about using HDT? I am not even sure that it supports that drive. It looks to me like they only currently support Atlas 10K drives of the first revision, not "II" or "III". Check that first. I read your other post, and I can't really help you out with cache segments, but I will see what I can learn.

kaye
12-24-2000, 12:40 AM
Mas,

I did not understand everything you said in that post. Did you remove the term power jumper? Are all three drives working properly now?

The number of cache segments, in FWB Configure, just reset to factory defaults but don't optimize and everything should go back to factory settings.

Well, if that is the Apple cable and terminator with that original LVD drive, then if should be LVD rated. k

Mas
12-24-2000, 12:46 AM
Thanks Dogsterman, I really need to get new set of cable and terminator, don't I. As you & others recommend (Again, NOT like what I did to my G4), I fancy Granite products.

I read the supported drive file with HDT, yes only 10K. First time I saw, It looked like All 10K family. My mistake! I can't blame on my moniter, can't I.
Right then, I used it already, Can I do anythig to get it back to drive's default setting? Sorry to trouble you all, but I'm worried now about the performance of drive, I might have degraded(?) it by messing about.
Mas

Mas
12-24-2000, 01:05 AM
Yes kaye, they are working fine, no term power jumper. Thanks.

I did HDT Restore Factory setting, launched SoftRAID and found buffer full/emputy ratio 128. It was 0 at the first time. I set them to 0 anyway. Segment shows 27 but I can't configure at this number, still less than 10.

Probably it doesn't matter much, less segment numbers are OK for working with big files. Am I right? I still don't get this. 50-100Mb with Photoshop, rendering with After Effect, working with Lightwave. That's all I do on this machine, I try to optimise but I'm still wandering. What's the good number of seg? or any suggest?
Many, many thanks again.
Mas

kaye
12-24-2000, 06:41 PM
Mas,

I would just leave the number of cache segments as is, whatever you can configure in SoftRAID, 10 or 11 as I recall. That should work well for you. k