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View Full Version : Good Video card to run dual monitors in QS 733



rwm
10-16-2002, 03:10 PM
Well I am going to add another monitor.... sounds very sensible. I have the QS 733 basically stock - an extra 60 gig Seagate, Ram up to 896 MB, the original GeForce 2, running a 19" Hitachi CM 715. Also currently running OS X 10.1.5 and will upgrade to Jaguar about the same time. Early December - unless you guys got reason to hold off.

So for a Video card looks like I have 3-4 options it seems? Pros and/or Cons other suggestions? Need effective and efficient but doubt I can afford the "best". I would spend $150 +/- if needed. If an older used card would work as well for cheaper - that sounds good. I would consider replacing my GeForce2 AGP with a dual AGP to keep my PCI slots open - but for what? A controller/host card down the road.

Radeon PCI (2001) OEM
Radeon 2001 PCI
Radeon 7000
ATI 9000

Look for an older Rage 128, Rage Pro, VooDoo other thoughts?

Thanks
Randy

unclemac
10-16-2002, 06:34 PM
If you are watching your pennies, don't forget that you can sell your current card if you buy one dual head replacement.

rwm
10-16-2002, 06:53 PM
Yes, I was just checking prices as to what a GeForce 2 would sell for.

I would like a dual head or monitor AGP card to utilize the AGP port. Any down side?

And again http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif People here have taught me so much the past two years, but I have never had the need to research or learn much about AGP video cards.

I have not researched much on my own yet. So what are my choices as to video card that will run dual monitors? Afraid to ask prices.

Randy

Doc
10-16-2002, 07:37 PM
Hi...

I have dual monitors on all my machines, including a QS733, a DA 533, and a Yikes 500 (nee 350)

The only thing I've run into is a problem with putting an ATI card as the PCI with the GeForce in the AGP. When I installed Jaguar - all was well UNTIL I rebooted. Then I got the GSOD (Green Screen of Death). The solution was to pull the ATI card, reboot, shut down, put in the ATI card BUT don't connect the monitor, reboot, shut down, plug in the second monitor and reboot and all is hunky-dory.. It's very odd - but there is some funky conflict between the nVidia and the ATI cards that causes this problem with the dual monitor setups ... i.e. both cards in place...

it's very annoying. What's even odder is that sometimes you can reboot and it's fine, other times - boom right into that problem...

Chris

rwm
10-16-2002, 09:04 PM
That would be the sh!ts for me as I don't have the physical ablity to do that. And would be hard to find someone to do that each time.

Anyone have "good" experience with an AGP dual monitor card in OS X? Which one?

I have been looking at the "RADEON¬ô 9000 PRO for Mac" but can't find a MAC price and the 8500 has more memory and a little more cost?????

So the ATI 9000 and RADEON¬ô 9000 PRO are two different cards right http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/confused.gif I need to spend a longer day researching.

Unless I am looking at something really different - the prices are not as much as I expected - $150 - Wrong item -- for a PC maybe?

More help, thanks guys
Randy

rwm
10-16-2002, 09:07 PM
Here right... http://www.techdepot.com/product.asp?productID=1268908&info=Tech#tabs

Something like this right? Are most PC/MAC? Or look for MAC Only? http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

Randy

[This message has been edited by rwm2 (edited 16 October 2002).]

rwm
10-16-2002, 11:31 PM
I am not married so........ Someone else shoot me...

Point me in the direction of a 17" flat screen, and these damn video cards care driving me nuts. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/confused.gif I have another or other issues by thinking or tossing in a flat screen as I read things - right or not?

I just want a good reliable video card for OS X - and open Guru's store.

Randy

qaedakiller
11-02-2002, 05:03 PM
I don't know detailed specs but I've heard good things about the Radeon 8500. Would this card do for what you're looking for?

rwm
11-02-2002, 05:30 PM
I have 2-3 cards in mind that would work just fine, that is a nice card. I was thinking of selling my AGP GeForce 2 and looking for a dual AGP - and good OS X compatibility card. Might be too many $$$'s

I might/will look for a B&W G3 after Christmas and part oput my 7500 if I find a great deal.... Here http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/Forum28/HTML/000104.html If I can holds out that long. http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I NEED to buy DiskWarrior and Jaguar first like now!!! Then the dual monitors, and possible a B&W G3 - the B&W G3 can wait till February - a few tax bucks back - I hope.

AND The flat screen looks real nice but big bucks.......

Randy

[This message has been edited by rwm2 (edited 02 November 2002).]

rwm
11-02-2002, 05:43 PM
What distance do I need to keep between my two monitors? - Randy

Doc
11-02-2002, 06:07 PM
All my dual setups have the monitors pretty much right next to each other.. No problems.. (usually just the smear when you turn on and off a monitor)... BTW - I picked up a couple of 17" LCD monitor - Samsung 171V - they were cheap at Best Buy here in Canada ($799 ea, CDN after a $100 discount)... they are nice...

Chris

bdp
11-06-2002, 09:05 PM
As far as ATI cards go, right now you can get the Radeon 8500 Mac Edition for <$200, or you could wait a while for the Radeon 9000 Pro Mac Edition to come out for ~$150. Both are AGP, 64MB video memory, dual monitor capable, and have similar features. The 8500 seems to have a slight edge in some gaming situations and offers Truform which is an edge smoothing feature of some games. For non-gaming situations you probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference. The two cards even use the same drivers.

The major functional difference is in the connectors. Both have a DVI port, but the 9000 has an ADC port (for Apple LCDs) while the 8500 has a VGA port and S-video output. Of course a bewildering assortment of adapters are available (DVI->VGA, DVI->ADC, etc.).

As far as I know there are NO contemporary consumer video cards that will work out-of-the-box in both a Mac and a PC, so you should concentrate on looking for "Mac Edition" cards. There are some people out there that are flashing PC cards to work in Macs, but this should be left to the pros, I think.

There are other dual-head AGP video cards out there for the Mac, but you're looking at spending around $400 for the high end retail ones. Unless you find something used, ATI is the only company selling reasonably priced new retail Mac AGP cards right now. And if you see what some of these used cards are selling for on eBay, I say just spend $150 on a Radeon 9000 when they come out. I am.

rwm
12-31-2002, 01:48 PM
Well I have decided to go the cheaper route and just add a PCI Graphics card. I am looking to spend around 100 bucks.... ideas for a QS 733?

Still in no huge hurry I need OS X support - tempting to just try a Rage 128.

Randy

TZ
12-31-2002, 04:41 PM
Apple / nVidia GeForce4 Ti 4600 OEM Video Card $249

(what's normal? $300?) OEM and Apple no longer offers the 128MB version.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>This special price expires 12-31-2002 and is only good for on-line ordering.
GeForce4 Ti 4600

* Vertices per Second: 136 Million
* Fill Rate: 4.8 Billion AA Samples/Sec.
* Operations per Second: 1.23 Trillion
* Memory Bandwidth: 10.4GB/Sec.
* Maximum Memory: 128MB

The NVIDIA GeForce4 Titanium graphics chip is the personal computer industry's most advanced graphics processing unit ever. This card incorporates the fourth generation GPU from NVIDIA, and delivers unprecedented visual effects and sizzling frame rates. Built on the nFiniteFX II engine, the Titanium card offers unprecedented programmability for developers of games and pro applications, allowing them to achieve new levels of realism by having much more control over how objects appear. Performance is also faster because the processing is done completely in the GPU, rather than in the CPU.

The GeForce4 specs are stunning. The LightSpeed II memory architecture uses 128MB of fast DDR RAM more efficiently than ever allowing it to achieve impressive statistics. It delivers a theoretical memory throughput of 10.56 gigabytes/sec, which can deliver over 87 million triangles and over 4.9 billion textured pixels (texels) per second. Using the latest 13 micron manufacturing process it delivers 63 million transistors and can deliver over 1.23 trillion operations/sec. For serious gamers and customer using high-end 3D applications there is simply no better graphics solution available for a personal computer.
The Titanium card offers built-in dual display support in two useful modes.

Extended Desktop mode allows users to work on two monitors at once for increased desktop real-estate (and increased productivity). Video mirroring is useful when presenting, so you can see the same image on a projector that you're seeing on your Apple display. The new GeForce4 Titanium card contains both an ADC port as well as a DVI port and can drive two ADC monitors with the addition of Apple's DVI to ADC adapter (sold separately).

System Requirements:
Requires a Power Macintosh G4 with minimum 4x Accelerated Graphics Port (4x AGP). These include all Graphite and QuickSilver Power Mac G4 models introduced in January 2001, July 2001, and February 2002.

MegaMacs GeForce4 Ti 4600 (http://www.megamacs.com/v1/?action=view&pid=1420618)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

dvose
01-05-2003, 09:00 PM
This might sound dumb but do 9600 Macs have an AGP slot? What options for a new video card do I have. I have a 9600 with Sonnett G-4/700.

DV

[This message has been edited by dvose (edited 05 January 2003).]

rwm
01-05-2003, 09:27 PM
No the 9600 does not have an AGP port, but there are many good Video Cards for the PCI slots.

Search for ATI, Radeon a 7000, 8000, 9000 but look for a PCI Video card.

Randy

rwm
02-19-2003, 06:13 PM
I am ready to purchase a video card. I like the idea behind having a "dual head" AGP card. I get - 2 4x AGP graphics ports and keep an open PCI slot. I would need to sell my GeForce 2MX to recoup some expense. Having a "dual head" do you split or lose any video bandwidth or quality? I do not do much that requires any real graphics. A few family photos, online quicktime's on CNN, Sports clips and such. Except Unreal Tournament running in OS 9.2.2 now and then - and the GeForce 2MX seems fine. OR is it time to jump into all AGP graphics?

Any decent Radeon, ATI product would work fine and for my uses and my needs. Also it might be easier and am less expensive option - last I checked. Not having to sell my AGP card and also I can't ever seriously see me using all the PCI slots.

Computer - QS 733, OS X.2.4, 896 MB RAM, GeForce 2MX. I also boot into OS 9.2.2 for Unreal Tournament.

Any thoughts or input appreciated as to AGP vs. PCI or any problems with certain video cards. Any real hot deals going on that I might be missing.

Thanks
Randy

Doc
02-19-2003, 10:02 PM
Hi Randy

I like the Radeon 7000 PCI's - they are working well in all my dual setup's - no more kernel panics either, ever since, I think, 10.2.3 - I'm now at 10.2.4 and all is well - they work really well...

I even just stuffed a spare Radeon 7000 into an older 7300 and it works great (I needed to set up a KVM and the old Apple-> VGA adapter was killing me so I needed a real VGA out to set up the right resolution)..

They should be pretty inexpensive and I think ATI also has a trade-up deal going now - any old card, no matter who made it, gets you $50 back from ATI on their cards...

Chris

kaye
02-20-2003, 08:09 AM
There is an interesting thread going here http://dealmac.com/forums/read.html?f=1&i=1067360&t=1067360 about the purchase of an nVidia GeForce4 MX 64MB.

What I found most interesting was this by

Author:¬?Endymion¬?¬?(Registered User)
Date:¬?¬?¬?02-18-03 00:54

"Contrary to popular belief these cards do not just slice RAM in half for use with each screen--unless of course you insist on using Mac OS 9. Mac OS 9 cannot dynamically allocate its resources. Mac OS X can. So supposing one screen actually needs more than 16MB from a 32MB card--it will get it in Mac OS X. Or if one screen actually needs more than 32MB with a 64MB card, it will get it in Mac OS X."

Didn't know that but have wondered. Never before have I seen a mention of this. My guess would be that you would not need more than 32MB for a monitor unless you were running a 3D graphics intensive game, or perhaps a similar 3D application. k

rwm
02-20-2003, 01:50 PM
K - Thanks for the link it provided some good info. Doc - Thanks, I like the Radeon cards and was looking at one last month. Seems compatible with OS X and OS 9.2. I will not be running any graphic intensive applications/programs so... I see no real need to have an AGP GeForce 4 requiring me to sell my GeForce 2 to offset the cost - other than to have it - but it is sounding like more hassle.

The Radeon is simple, fast, easy and it works. I have all 4 PCI slots open now - and can only see me using 2 others ONLY if an excessive amount of unexpected cash falls from the sky into my lap. Yeah Right http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif No such luck.

I will run a 17" or 19" CRT monitor with my current 19" Hitachi.

I'll use the AGP GeForce 2MX for any of my gaming. It seems senseless to buy a card with better specs for PCI graphics than my AGP card - it can't perform better can it?

Thanks guys, - I had pneumonia the last 2-3 weeks and am just getting going again. Stuff sure piles up in 10-14 days. Missed my daily Guru reading.

Randy

[This message has been edited by rwm2 (edited 20 February 2003).]

rwm
02-20-2003, 03:58 PM
The nVidia GeForce4 Ti 4600 AGP sure looks really nice - might be worth the hassle of selling my GeForce2MX. What or exactly or how much do the -- nVidia GeForce4 Ti 4600 and the nVidia GeForce4MX 64MB differ?

They both can/will run 2 CRT's with the right adapters - right?

Randy

[This message has been edited by rwm2 (edited 20 February 2003).]

kaye
02-20-2003, 07:24 PM
Some info here http://www.apple.com/powermac/graphics.html and here http://www.nvidia.com/view.asp?PAGE=geforce4ti and here http://www.nvidia.com/view.asp?PAGE=geforce4mx

Some tests comparing the two here http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/Graphics/geforce4_ti/geforce4_titanium_Mac.html k

Doc
02-20-2003, 11:19 PM
I will say that the AGP cards that are in our dual 1 GHz MDD machines are SWEET - we're doing some pretty intense molecular modelling etc.. and they are really nice for spinning around complex structures..

I think they're nVidia's (the stock ones that came with the machines)

Chris

rwm
02-21-2003, 12:01 AM
The GeForce 4MX 64MB video card sounds like it would fit my price and needs just fine. - Randy

rwm
02-21-2003, 02:04 PM
Doc - The cards in the machines you are refering to are 32MB nVidia's I think anyone know for sure?

They had a few 64MB cards then switched back to a 32MB card from what I was reading yesterday???????????

There is another post here at Gurus on this somewhere.

Randy

Doc
02-21-2003, 08:13 PM
According to EveryMac - they are (or were) ATI Radeon 9000 64 MB cards in the dual 1 Ghz MDD system...

I think the nVidia's are in my stock QS machines...

We're thinking about adding a dual 1.25 Ghz G4 MDD system to our stable of computers now - , which include 2 x Dual 1 GHz G4 MDDs, 1 QS 733, 2 DA 533's, 1 Yikes 350 -> 500, my Ti800, and several upgraded 7300 and PTP's.

Most excellent...

Chris

rwm
03-14-2003, 04:35 PM
Looks like which ever card I end up buying they all seem to have - VGA and ADC outputs.

I will run 2 CRT's my 19" Hitachi CM715 and some other I find.

How hard is it to go from ADC -> VGA or expensive. I don't see flat screens in my near future.

Randy

rwm
04-26-2003, 08:25 PM
Well I am just itching to finally order a video card - looking at the "ATI Radeon 9000" - been finding them at 160. I'll hold off till Monday. I have not found the "nVidia GeForce4 Ti 4600"

Please post if any one sees a good deal on any good AGP card that will run 2 monitors in a QS 733.

Randy

[This message has been edited by rwm2 (edited 26 April 2003).]

TZ
11-16-2004, 09:55 AM
I can tell you that MacZone seems to have good prices on the 9000 Pro. Not as good at even the OEM 9600 $119 but which requires G4 DA (133 MHz fsb) or later. ADC 2 VGA works fine and is what I had to use. $29.

eric
11-16-2004, 11:26 AM
I use my old ATI DVI-to-VGA converter with my 9600 Pro. TZ would know better about the ADC-to-VGA.

I figure you still have the DVI-to-VGA which you could use with that card. TZ posted the price for the ADC-to-VGA. Looking close to a wash price wise between the 9000 and 9600 (pre-taped from OWC).

I think you know what TZ and I say you should do. Easier on the wallet than that 4Ti. Unlike the 4Ti you get CoreImage in Tiger.

Money saved can go to that M-series Giga dual. :D