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View Full Version : Get a GeForce 4 Ti? Radeon 8500? Help!



spodie
02-24-2002, 02:23 PM
I just got a new G4/867 with SuperDrive, 2x60 GB hard drives, 1.2 GB RAM, and GeForce 2 MX. While I like the GeForce 2 MX, I would really like to get a higher-end video card like the GeForce 4 Ti or the Radeon 8500. The GeForce 4 Ti sounds like an awesome card, but so does the Radeon.

Any suggestions from anyone? The price is not really an issue, as I am willing to spend $500 for a GeForce 4 Ti card if someone can convince me why I should choose it over the Radeon 8500. All comments and thoughts are appreciated!

Damien
02-24-2002, 03:24 PM
I am going to get the GeForce Ti because then I will not be dependant on ATI and their crappy - to - non existant drivers and support!

spodie
02-24-2002, 05:12 PM
I understand what you mean about ATI's drivers and support. But I wonder if nVidia will be any better in the long run? I mean, nVidia's stock is in the toilet and their people are feeling the economic pinch like everyone else, right?

I feel somewhat concerned that nVidia won't be able to weather the economic storm and could fold up, not unlike 3dfx did shortly after releasing the Voodoo 5. Yeah, they were bought by nVidia, but they were hurting financially before that.

I'd hate to be stuck with a high-power video card with no drivers, like the Voodoo 5 that sits in its box on a shelf in my office collecting dust. Been burned once, don't want it to happen again.

ATI may have less-than-desirable drivers and support, but they are bigger and more financially sound than nVidia is. But I sure to like the specs on that GeForce 4 Ti! http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

dragon_x
02-24-2002, 08:13 PM
ATI does have bad driver support - since the RAGE128PCI came out. Still their cards are better at 2D, DVD and QT from what I see. There are rumors that the GF4-Ti will allow greater accleration of Aqua. Since apple no longer uses the archaic bit map video engine - most 'GPUs' are not advanced enough to acelerate a vector display. I think all the cards do now is framebuffer. Also I would be you really need a Dual 1Ghz to push the GF4Ti to its max in 3D. I am not sure the card is a power hog, likes its predecessor the GF-3.

I like my RADEON PCI in my G4/867QS.

------------------
The Cost Of Freedom:
Every bit of energy.
Every ounce of courage.
Every drop of blood.

Sic Semper Tyranus!

ricercar
02-26-2002, 03:48 AM
spodie, i'll suggest you didn't research effectively before forming your opinion about NVIDIA's longevity. NVIDIA is not feeling economic pain, nor is NVIDIA at risk like ATI, who's market share has only decreased in the last few years.

NVIDIA's "stock in the toilet?" Bzzt. Both NVIDIA and ATI stock prices have doubled since September 11th. My second response is "compared to what?" Sure NVDA is down from $65 last month, but it closed today at over $53; while ATYT peaked below $16 in December, and closed today under $13. I'd sure rather own NVDA, especially with analysts predicting $90 this year.

ATI "bigger and more financially sound" than NVIDIA? Bzzt. NVIDIA's market cap is $7.7B, more than double ATI's $2.8B. NVIDIA's earnings per share is +$1.02 while ATI posted -$0.32. Eight wall street firms currently evaluate NVIDIA's performance (strong buy), with ATI evaluated most recently a whole month ago (buy) by a single analyst. incidentally, NVIDIA recently earned a place in the S&P 500, a financial metric many people value.

NVIDIA "unable to weather the economic storm?" Bzzt. In 2001 NVIDIA achieved $1 Billion/year in revenue, faster than any other company on earth, let alone ATI. NVIDIA also stands to break the fastest-to-$2B/year mark in 2002 (says NVIDIA) or 2003 (says Wall Street). NVIDIA is doing well in its established market, plus is entering alternate lucrative markets, for example motherboard chipsets: against established competitors like Intel, and with established partners like Microsoft. Analysts forecast NVIDIA's 2002 growth at 58%. (Think about that: 58% annual growth predicted for a company that just reached $1B annual revenues.)

NVIDIA "feeling the economic pinch like everyone else, right?" Bzzt. Instead of having layoffs, NVIDIA opened requisitions to hire 700 new engineers in Q1 of this year. The intention is to grow into the third of four buildings on the nearly completed new NVIDIA campus in Santa Clara. In these hard times, NVIDIA continues to cater free employee lunch and dinner every weekday. NVIDIA also stocks free soda pop in every break room on campus.

When NVIDIA cut consultant pay last month due to "economic conditions," it wasn't because _they_ are in any trouble, but rather because NVIDIA knows we contractors haven't an alternative. Even after the cut NVIDIA still pays me $3-10 above the going rate for my skillset in this area, and NVIDIA never complains when I bill over 40 hours/week.

NVIDIA is _not_ a company on the road to extinction; so says an insider who ain't no corporate slave.

http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/hr.gif
By the way, Apple writes virtually all MacOS drivers for ATI and NVIDIA hardware. Much as I hate to say anything good about ATI, when MacOS video driver support sucks, it is rarely the chip manufacturer's fault.

[This message has been edited by ricercar (edited 26 February 2002).]

dragon_x
02-26-2002, 10:26 AM
riceracer,

That was my impression of nVidia, but I did not do nearly as much research as you. I guess it pays to know the company you work (contract?) for!

Much as I hate to say anything good about ATI, when MacOS video driver support sucks, it is rarely the chip manufacturer's fault.
This has been commented on before. I know ATI does some of the work... there seem to be a few compentent 'driver engineers' at ATI. I think the main issue is that Apple is forced to write drivers for these companies. I did not know Apple wrote for nVidia. While the drivers for ATI's cards seem to be slightly better than nVidia they are not much better. One big issue is that ATI's cards do and support (in theory) more. Their drivers do not fully support the hardware that they make and to add salt to these wounds ATI has dropped support for their 'all in wonder' cards - although this is not as big an issue with 5 slotted Macs and Firewire/USB solutions. nVidia's cards are definately not as good un the 2D arena - but it seems they might be gaining some ground... and they are new the the Mac market, so they do have time to improve.

It definately sucks that nVida crushed 3Dfx. I mean I would think nVidia should AT LEAST be able to release the source code for the 3Dfx cards - to allow them to be ported to Mac OS X. I think the petition gained nearly 9000 people wanting this - many willing to pay money for beta drivers. This would be a simple and CHEAP way for nVidia to gain some good will. I know I would be a lot happer with them. My GF-3 is OK, but my V5 RAWKS with UT! http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif