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View Full Version : In need of OEM Rage 128



titanium
02-06-2002, 08:23 PM
Well, ATI has severely disappointed me. My Radeon 7000 will probably never work. Instead of fixing the incompatibility between pre-B&W G3's and OS X, they simply said that the requirements listed on the retail box were "incorrect" and that a B&W G3 is required. BTW, the retail box says: Compatible with OS 9 and OS X in any PCI based Macintosh.

Since there is no other option for a pre-beige G3 than an OEM Rage 128 (which doesn't even function fully), I am forced to either get a Rage 128 or let my computer be useless.

ATI is shooting themselves in the foot by letting people like me buy a "compatible" card that doesn't work and then abandoned the support (their suggestion to people in my situation is to return it to the vendor). Who would use this card in a B&W G3 or later anyway???

Anyone know of any other cards that will work in pre-beige G3's without having to have a monitor adapter or other weird gimmics plugged in in order for it to work?

Thanks,
Mitchell

ChrisYip
02-06-2002, 10:26 PM
Hi

I have a Radeon PCI board running in my PTP right now.. works fine and it drives a standard NEC Multisync 17+ fine...Working well under 9.1 at the moment. I just plugged it in and installed all the ATI stuff.
Chris

titanium
02-06-2002, 10:44 PM
The problem is specified to machines with bulit-in video running OS X... I should have made this clearer.

I don't think the PTP has on-board video and should run a PCI Radeon just fine under OS X.

ChrisYip
02-06-2002, 10:58 PM
Yup - I haven't migrated to OS X on that machine yet - just on a couple of my other newer machines...

Chris

ricks
02-06-2002, 10:59 PM
Wonder if it's possible to disconnect the on board video and solve the problem? Rick

dragon_x
02-06-2002, 11:19 PM
That is ATI for you. They have good cards but their support sucks. The support for Apple's bG3's sucks and Apple is being sued over it - and rightly so.

You might be able to get around the built-in video issue by adding a Mac Video -> VGA converter. Not sure if this was successful with the 7000, but I think it has worked in other situations. I assume you were installing 10.1 or higher.

I like those old PCI based Macs with no onboard video. On board video often sucks. My roomate has an old Dell with onboard video - he got an ATI RAGE128 'all in wonder' card on Christmass and has not yet been able to get it working properly. This was not the last Christmas, but two Christmases ago! http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/eek.gif

ATI probably sells around 4 million video cards for Apple each year - one would think this would give us some support.

The RADEON 7K is a nice card - I might just run it on my B&W as I migrate my cards to other systems... nVidia hardly even makes a PCI video card. Maybe they need to start?

I am not even sure X would run on the PTPro with the ATI R7K. I have heard stories...

I bet the old RADEON PCI would work.

kaye
02-06-2002, 11:51 PM
I sold my old/original Radeon PCI to Louie. He runs it in a Beige G3 with no problems from the getgo in OS9/OSX. In fact he purchased two more of the original Radeons and installed them in another Beige G3 and some other box. k

dragon_x
02-07-2002, 07:39 AM
http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/message.gif <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>From a poster on XLR8yourmac - about the RADEON 7500 and RADEONs in general

I'd have to say in my personal opinion, that the most current radeon drivers are fairly stable, aside from the totally random grey screen of death crashes from 2d accel (you can eliminate it by turning off 2d accel, but that completely ruins every point of even using the frigging card)
Framerates are okay in games, Adaptive Deinterlace for DVDs works, FSAA is enabled but you can't turn it on at your own will (have to run a game that supports it...)]

So, they're semi-stable, semi-feature complete, and semi-sucky. Overall I'd give them a rating of mediocre. If you have an AGP mac, you probably won't get the random crashes... I think this may be PCI only, and the higher your CPU speed is, the more you'll get crashes. In my 375mhz system, it's not very often... every couple days at minimal. In my brother's 500mhz system, his radeon crashes him about 1-5 times a day.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gray Screen of Death http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/crossbones.gif http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/eek.gif Sounds like Mac OS X... anybody ever get a GSOD in Classic?

Maybe he is mixing drivers?

EDIT FOR LINK TO XLR8y'erMac http://bbs.xlr8yourmac.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001674.html

[This message has been edited by dragon_x (edited 07 February 2002).]

ricks
02-07-2002, 10:08 PM
titanium,
Hey, if MadDog ever finishes torturing the secrets out of my Nexus card, and you don't find buying a RadeonPCI edition the answer I'd be happy to make a deal on the Nexus. Last and best of the Rage128 cards. No hurry to decide.

Rick

titanium
02-08-2002, 07:51 PM
Strangely, the only graphics card that will work is an OEM Rage 128 pulled from a B&W G3 or the Yikes G4. The nexus cards have been tested, but have mixed reports. After making the mistake of buying the Radeon 7000, I'm not going to take anymore chances. Thanks anyway though.

Again, what I'm trying to do is run OS X on an 8500 with accelerated graphics. I already have it running off of a 9.2 GB Cheetah on a Miles2 Card. The problem with the 8500 is its onboard video... It prevents cards like the Radeon from working properly in OS X. Something about the OEM Rage 128 allows for accelerated graphics in OS X on unsupported systems with onboard video; however, a monitor adapter is required to be plugged into the onboard video to trick the computer into thinking it has two monitors (which then causes a problem because of games/screen savers/etc).

If there was a way to disable onboard video, that would be the best option, but no one can seem to figure out how. I don't even know how to get into open firmware on an 8500 (is it even possible?), much less change any settings.

There was a topic on xlr8yourmac.com about trying to disable onboard video which I didn't understand at all... had a lot to do with /bandit@####### and stuff like that. I'm clueless...

Perhaps the gurus know...

trag
02-11-2002, 03:38 PM
Well, one could desolder the five arbitration pins on the CHAOS controller (analogous to the Bandit chip but handles the video) and that should disable the internal video.

titanium
02-11-2002, 08:18 PM
Trag,

How would I go about doing this? Are there any diagrams or instructions to follow? And, would the internal video be completely disabled and the computer would work similarly to say... a 9600? I know that the Radeon, possibly even Radeon 7000, work in machines without onboard video including the 9600 and PTP, of course, it's not 100% confirmed that the onboard video is the only problem; it could be just bad system architecture or incompatibility in the PCI bus (I've heard success with the Radeon in the catalyst motherboard). Basically, what I'm asking is: If I were to do this, would the card work (looking for an educated guess from someone with more computer knowledge than I), and what would be the odds of me breaking the whole motherboard (does it scan for onboard video and not boot if not detected?).

I could avoid this whole sticky situation if someone had one of them OEM Rage128's from a B&W G3 or Yikes G4... Found one over at ebay with 3 days left... current bid: $36. If it doesn't go much past $70-80, I might try and buy it. But, I'd much rather deal with a mac geek like me than ebay.

BTW, I obtained most of my information on video cards for pre-g3 macs running OS X from this thread at the xlr8yourmac.com forums:
http://bbs.xlr8yourmac.com/ubb/Forum14/HTML/000154.html
It's rather lengthy and a little boring, but if you understand what they're talking about, it might be worth a shot.

Thanks for any info,
Mitchell

Damien
02-13-2002, 09:20 PM
I have 2 OEM Rage 128's (pci) both from blue & white G3's

Both are in use as well

what kind of deal can we make by trading one of my 128 for that radeon 7k?

Email me if interested

Damien

damien@macmeisters.com