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View Full Version : Guru's and the Mission RADEON?



dragon_x
05-30-2001, 12:29 PM
I am unable to find the PCI RADEON or any RADEON on the MacGurus store site.... Did I miss something?

I am looking to get one.

Thanks,

D_x

jorge
05-30-2001, 12:57 PM
I think you can only run one Radeon. They have a patch for the Radeon / Rage 128 issue. Magician would know first hand if it works.

Though I think he is running 3 radeons in my Yose machine.

I have a PCI Radeon running in my DP 533 with the AGP NVidia board. Works fine.

j

[This message has been edited by jorge (edited 30 May 2001).]

dragon_x
05-30-2001, 03:00 PM
I have a PCI Radeon in a YOSE, along with a V3/3K. The V3 is great, except with X. I almost tricked X into running a V3 (unaccelerated) but it returned my trick with several crashes.

I did try to run the RADEON PCI with the default extensions/drivers on 9.1 - bad move. I disabled the extensions and installed from the newest (1.1?) ATI download and it works good. No FSAA, but it is fast in UT-RAVE. I suppose I could return it if ATI's drives suck so bad that a dual PCI RADEON setup fails or I could put it in another system.

I thought Mag's main issue was that he couldnt get 3 PCI RADEONs to work in BEAST. Right?

jorge,
Which one do you prefer: RADEON or GF-2mx?

Ever wonder what ATI stands for? http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/confused.gif http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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So long and thanks for all the fish!

kaye
05-30-2001, 05:06 PM
dx,

That is because magician has been unable to make the Radeon PCI coexist with other ATI cards for dual monitor, if I recall correctly.

A single video card, Radeon PCI works, but he may never sell it with that restriction. He hates all those ATI extensions. I love watching them dance across the screen. My 2 k

jorge
05-31-2001, 06:53 AM
my gripe with ATI was the boat-load of extensions. Really liked the Formac cards which run only one Control Panel.

The NVidia also has about 10 extensions. They are both fast cards for what I do. No game playing here.

j

[This message has been edited by jorge (edited 31 May 2001).]

kaye
05-31-2001, 11:22 AM
Good but long comparison of GeForce2MX vs. Radeon here http://innermac.com/features/g2mx-radeon/ k

dragon_x
05-31-2001, 01:13 PM
Thanks for the link. This is the first chart I've seen comparing the RADEON 166MhzDDR vs. the GF2-mx. This makes it very obvious as to why the GF2-lowcost is very close to the RADEON in performance (3D). Originally the GF2-mx was running at a lower clock with SDR and the RADEON is normally quoted at 200Mhz with DDR...

I think the RADEON still comes out on top. It has better 2D, DVD and 3D overall and from what I've seen the GF has more issues with pro apps (RAVE, OPENGL - lightwave), not that I use any of those now.... but. Of course ATI's driver developement leaves much to be desired - its almost as bad as WINDERS http://macgurus.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

magician
06-01-2001, 01:51 AM
in Beast, two Radeon sucked the HUGE ONE with a Rage 128VR. No way to make them coexist conserving television functionality and 2D scrolling acceleration.

in Berserker (Jorge's old Yose), I am running three Radeon. 2D acceleration is so-so on the main display. On the other two, not. I am waiting on a buncha Formac boards to come in, and then I am pulling all ATI Radeon boards from my personal machines. I will run Formac video cards and PRAY that the Studio enables me to watch Howard Stern. Gotta have TV on a Mac.

once I can write a balanced, sane, FAIR assessment of exactly how badly the Radeon sucks in multimonitor configurations, we will sell them.

I am also waiting for the other shoe to drop right now with Formac. Not sure what is going onthere.

Jorge, what fix? anything beyond 1.0, 1.1, or 1.1.1, OpenGL 1.2.1, etc? I've tried it all. I would love it if I had missed something.

macsheep
06-27-2001, 09:11 PM
I still have my new Radeo card sitting here and a 9600/350 that needs it but I am so put off by my previous experience with Radeon I have not installed it yet. When installed in a 9600/300 upgraded with an XLR8 G4/450 processor, Adaptec 29160 SCSI card and Sonnet ATA-66 IDE card the Radeon caused the 9600 to fail to come through a restart. Had to be shut down to get back after a restart. Is anyone using the Radeon successfully with any or all of these upgrades?

ChrisYip
06-27-2001, 09:26 PM
I just installed a RADEON on a PTP 225 that had been upgraded with an XLR8 G3/500 card under OS 9.1

I popped the card in and ran their installer - all is well

Machine specs

256 MB RAM
Miles2
RADEON
MachFire FireWire
DualPort USB
IXMicro TT 8 MB stock video card as well

Basically no paring of extensions..and all seems well at the moment.

Chris

kaye
06-27-2001, 10:50 PM
Radeon in an PTP:
xlr8 G3-500, OS9.0.4 and OS9.1, 1024MB RAM

Miles2
xlr8 MAChFire
Miles
Miles2
Radeon or ProFormance3+ 32MB
xlr8 DualPort USB

No problems with the Radeon. Have tried it in slot 4 (fastest of slots I tried), slot 5, and slot 6. k

macsheep
06-28-2001, 08:57 AM
Are you saying I should install the Radeon card first and then install the software? I had thought the software needed to be installed first?

kaye
06-28-2001, 09:14 AM
I just followed the manual and installed the card first then booted up and installed the software from the CD and later updated the software to the latest from the ATI site.

The card will run without the software, just not fast because none of the acceleration software is in place. At least that was my experience. k

[This message has been edited by kaye (edited 28 June 2001).]

macsheep
06-28-2001, 12:23 PM
Well, my Radeon luck has not changed a bit! I followed instructions: Install the card and hook to a monitor before installing software. Replaced the old card in a 9600/350 with the Radeon. Reset the CUDA. Computer started and restarted fine without the software. Started and restarted fine after installing the new version 1.1.1 software, freshly downloaded from ATI's site.

Mind you, I did this installation using a four year old 17" Princeton Ultra 72 monitor. It ain't a great monitor but it is reliable. Once everything was working I connected the 9600 to a brand new out of the box LaCie Electron 19" Blue monitor. Started up fine. But now restarts fail. Upon clicking special/restart the 9600 goes down and stays down. Moreover, it cannot be shut down with the switch on the front. The power has to be shut off at the battery backup. Then the 9600 will startup normally.

Photoshop 6.0.1 works OK so far as I can see. Everything else works. The 9600 just won't come through a restart. This same thing happened on the last 9600 I upgraded. I finally gave up on the Radeon card, put in a Rage Orion, and the problem went away. Sent the Radeon to ATI (Thinking it was hardware failure) and they replaced it with the one I just installed.

The upgrade in this 9600 is: Adaptec 29160 SCSI card running Quantum Atlas II 10k 36 GB HD, Sonnet ATA-66 IDE card running two Maxtor 80 GB HD's, Stock processor, over 1 GB RAM, OS 9.1.

This is the second upgraded 9600 that has refused to come through a restart with the Radeon card installed. Of course, all I have to do to solve the problem is replace the Radeon with an Orion. Or go back to using my old monitor? But I am at my wits end with the Radeon. If anyone can shed any light on this restart fail problem with the Radeon I would really appreciate some help!

BAAAAaaaaaa says the lost sheep!

kaye
06-29-2001, 11:37 AM
Try this. From a cold start, immediately hold down cmd-option-p-r and continue to hold down those keys and listen for at least three startup chimes as the machine goes thru successive restarts, then release the keys, and it should startup. What you are doing is zapping PRAM/NVRAM of the resolution/colors settings of the Princeton/Radeon and forcing the Radeon and LaCie to communicate with each other what the LaCie is capable of on the Radeon.

Before you do this, one caution, the xlr8 G4 may not boot after clearing PRAM/NVRAM. Get the XLR8 Emergency Disk 1.0.0 utility off of the xlr8 CD and put it on a floppy. You may have to insert the floppy to boot. That will reinstall some xlr8 stuff into NVRAM. k

dragon_x
06-29-2001, 01:32 PM
the xlr8 G4 may not boot after clearing PRAM/NVRAM.
Isnt that because SA may be re-enabled. This is a much bigger issue with the G4, since its faster than the G4. SA 'runs' when the G4 is 'idle' or waiting.

I wonder if you could get into the OF and turn SA back on?

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Life in the fast lane leads to:
The Resteraunt At The End Of The Universe.

kaye
06-29-2001, 04:12 PM
d_x,

I think you are correct but there may be other issues as well, and the pdf ReadMe only says this:

About the XLR8 Emergency Disk
The XLR8 Emergency Disk is specifically designed to recover from a condition that can occur on pre-G3 PCI Macs. This condition occurs when a G4 processor is installed in a pre-G3 PCI system and the NVRAM is zapped. The symptom is that upon trying to boot with a G4, a blinking question mark will appear, and the system will not boot as usual.

By making a floppy disk with these files on it, you will be able to recover quickly and easily if your NVRAM should be lost. Simply insert the floppy disk at the blinking question mark. Virtual firmware will be reloaded and your Mac will restart automatically -no further action will be required.

Although losing NVRAM is rare, it can happen, so it is a good idea to have an emergency disk available for this unlikely occurrence.

I used the floppy once after testing a beta CarrierMPe/G3-500 ZIF in a PTP. Reinstalling Carrier/G3-500 ZIF, PTP would not boot. After trying several ways to recover, the XLR8 Emergency Disk 1.0.0 floppy cured the problem, even though the docs only mention the G4. k

dragon_x
06-30-2001, 04:28 PM
I just took the floppy out of my PTPro http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/eek.gif http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/tongue.gif

------------------
Life in the fast lane leads to:
The Resteraunt At The End Of The Universe.

kaye
07-01-2001, 11:18 AM
Ah, keep the floppy drive and just plug it back in when/if you need it. Just part of an emergency tools kit. k

macsheep
07-10-2001, 07:37 PM
I used the XLR8 rescue disk to revive the first 9600 that Radeon knocked out. Works. But Radeon doesn't. I have three 9600's. Have not been able to get the Radeon to work in any one of them. Always the same problem. The 9600 won't come back from a restart. My Radeon rests in peace in the spare parts box while the good old reliable Rage Orion's are running the 9600's.

Santilli
07-15-2001, 02:06 AM
Hi
Just to add to the database. ATI Nexus 32, and 16 mb Nexus GA do not, and would not, work with the 3dfx extensions, and a Voodoo PCI 5500.

Alone, the 5500 was fine. Houston, I believe we have extension conflicts.

Tests done on a G3/233 and, G3/333, both beige, with SBS 7 slot pci box on the 333.

gs

dragon_x
07-15-2001, 11:19 AM
That is strange. The Nexus 32MB is nearly identical the the Orion 16MB - the only diff I know of is the extra 16MB. The Nexus 16MB though is an older 64bit card. This old card came with 8MB normally and you could upgrade it via a VRAM slot. I have the 8MB version.

My V5 works fine with the ATI VR128.

I have two RADEON's in my B&W G3. The one I bought from Gurus has a different (beefier) fan & heatsink setup. It works great in classic, but in X its still troublesome, but faster than my ATI-RAGEPRO128 + ix3D G4 setup at work.