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levelbest
06-09-2001, 11:07 PM
Hi again. I enjoyed playing detective so much on the last no name card I bought, I decided to try it again. This morning I was unable to resist picking up another pci video card for my 7600 Mac. From what I have learned from searches, it is probably an ATI GX Exclaim. And, I downloaded the driver package from ATI to use with it but, It said that their product was not found on my machine. Perhaps we have the same problem as last time? Perhaps it's an ATI card (definitely says Mach64 ATI on the biggest chip) but not supported by ATI because it's really OEM Apple. (?)

I am pretty happy with the card I got help with last thursday, until I find a top end 3D card. But, the newest card wasn't very expensive and if it gives at least what the other card gives, I could put it in my old 7300. Heck, maybe it;s even faster than the other one? I have video testing software now so it's not just subjective speculation.

So, can anyone help by telling me what this card is and what machines it came with? And of course, what chances do I have getting it to run on my 7600 running system 8.6? I does power up and "run", but, just like the other card before I found the magic driver, it runs no faster than the normal video out on the Mac.

Specs:
One video out on the cards back (same as the other card - ix micro from oem 9600)

Large square chip:
Mach64 ATI
210888GX00
SGW*BNUAH01
A22DI9644
J63BZL
MALTA

Other large chip (rectangular):
Apple Mach64
113-32900-105
(C) 1996

Memory:
4 rectangular chips with 2 extra banks for extra memory plug ins.

Other Chip:
Blue IBM with silver diamond in the center.

Ideas?

Thanks,
lb

professor
06-10-2001, 02:32 AM
sounds like it could be a 2 meg mach 64 card like the one we have in our 9500 at work. wish i had more info.

kaye
06-10-2001, 11:07 AM
What does Apple System Profiler (ASP) in the Apple Menu say it is? k

levelbest
06-10-2001, 12:30 PM
System Profiler sez:

Card Type: Display
Card Name: ATY,mach64
Card model: ATY,88800GX
Card Revision: 3
Card vender ID: 1002

kaye
06-10-2001, 09:15 PM
Yup, as the Prof sez, a Mach64 board. I just tried to check the Gurus ftp site for drivers but cannot get on with either Exploder or Interarchy. k

levelbest
06-11-2001, 05:10 AM
Knowing what it is, can you tell me anything about it? What sort of performance does it have? Relative to the stock 7600 video, is it faster? By how much? The ixmicro I had asked about earlier on this forum was nearly twice as fast.

P.S. Arrg, I just lost another post because I hadn't typed the password in just right. You can't tell until you try submitting it. Then, the browser can't reload the page you had the words on.

Thanks,
lb

kaye
06-11-2001, 10:23 AM
lb,

Wish I could help but I don't know of any tests. Macworld or MacUser might have had one but the archives don't go back that far, or at least it appears so. k

kaye
06-11-2001, 10:55 AM
OK, found one here http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/G3CARDS/XLR8_CarrierZIF/index2.html and scroll to the MacBench 5 tests.

The PowerCenter Pro used the 2MB onboard video (ATI Mach64). Note that the Graphics test was run at 1024x768xThousands for all of the video cards because of the limitations of the ATI Mach64 2MB VRAM. k

Louie
06-11-2001, 05:55 PM
Kaye, the 2 MB Power CC riser card in the Power Center Pro used the Rage II (Mach 64) chipset but they also offered a 4 MB version. These were proprietary. There were ATI retail versions and Apple OEM versions (PCI) in the 9500 I think. The later could add 2 MB of VRAM for a total of 4 MB. We have both retail and Apple drivers for these things on the FTP site I think. They were good for their time and will do RAVE but not OpenGL. They will run in a 7600 with the appropriate driver and OS 8.6.

[This message has been edited by Louie (edited 11 June 2001).]

levelbest
06-11-2001, 07:36 PM
Hmmmm,
I am not sure what to make of the link Kaye. But thank you for thinking of it.I didn't see the card in question exactly mentioned there. Were you suggesting that the card might be from a "PowerCenter Pro"? Apparently what we still don't know is whether the card is OEM or ATI. The ATI drivers do not recognize it, that I do know. The label on the chipset says APPLE and a date.

I know I am new to all this but I found this neat little free utility that measures the data rates of your active video card. It's fro1m a suite that is geared to programmers but this little thing sure seems sweet.

It gives me the concrete data today that the IX MICRO I installed last week is twice as fast as my stock 7600 video.

"TimeVideo is free, and may be freely distributed. You can get the latest
version from:

<http://vision.nyu.edu/VideoToolbox/Download.html>

The text file "TimeVideo results" explains all the results."

lb

kaye
06-11-2001, 09:44 PM
lb,

That page link, Benchmarks, is one of several. If you go to the Intro page for that test, he says that the PCP has an ATI Mach64. Do a search for ATI Mach64 on the Intro page. k

[This message has been edited by kaye (edited 11 June 2001).]

Louie
06-11-2001, 10:15 PM
lb:

I'm almost certain that card is the ATI-built OEM card that Apple put in the earlier 9500's. It had 2 MB of VRAM expandable to 4 MB. I went back to the System 7.6 CD and found two drivers for it, Graphics Accelerator v1.05 and Graphics Accelerator II v1.1, which I can mail if you don't have 7.6

The OS 8 and subsequent CD dropped those two drivers and started the multiple ATI extensions/libraries that, after many, many changes, are still with us in OpenGL 1.2.1. These were started when the Rev A Beige G3's had the Rage II chipset on the logic board. Your card has that same chipset. The same series of drivers run the Rage Pro chipsets, Rage 128 and now Radeon and are backward compatible to Rage II.

I had the 4 MB video riser card with the same Rage II chipset in a Power Center Pro. The ATI driver sets from Apple were backward compatible and continued to work with that chipset at least thru OS 8.6.

The current Apple/ATI driver set may work with that old card.

levelbest
06-12-2001, 05:41 AM
"The current Apple/ATI driver set may work with that old card."

Can you tell me where I can find the current Apple/ATI drivers then? I am running 8.6 because it came on the formatting my hard drive when I picked up the machine used from a computer store. I don't have 8.6 (8.5) on a disk anywhere. The last time I was stuck trying to find and download a driver for a card someone on the list E-mailed me a driver from the 8.6 install disk. And, it worked.

Is it at an Apple site for download or is there another good Sumaritan out there that can send me the drivers?

Thanks
lb

ChrisYip
06-12-2001, 05:18 PM
Hi..

You could try the 'Gurus FTP site:

ftp://ftp.macgurus.com/ftp/ati_stuff/

perhaps one of those universal ones will work...(?) - just a guess

Chris

levelbest
06-12-2001, 09:42 PM
No, BTDT (Been there done that).
I appreciate the suggestion though. The easy install option returned "no ATI board installed" (paraphrasing). Interestingly I did recently come across two separate web pages saying that custom install option does work when the easy install will not. I am pretty beat tonight but, I may give that another try.I got the ATI driver package from the ATI web site.

I still have had no luck finding Apple "standard" drivers though. I looked under the Apple web site under driver downloads and guess what? They are all for system 10. Yoiks.

lb

ChrisYip
06-13-2001, 12:54 AM
Hmmmmm... Well - let me do some digging in the lab tomorrow and see if I can find my 8.5 or 8.6 CD - I have some of the ATI updates on my internal server so I can dig and fire an e-mail over to you...

Chris

Louie
06-13-2001, 03:44 PM
The current Apple driver/library set can be downloaded right here (OpenGL 1.2.1) http://asu.info.apple.com/swupdates.nsf/62c10253abd2be98 862566bb005fbe67/ece56fb8841668a88625682c006dfa7c?OpenDocument (http://asu.info.apple.com/swupdates.nsf/62c10253abd2be98862566bb005fbe67/ece56fb8841668a88625682c006dfa7c?OpenDocument)

I'm running this package on several machine using from Rage II, Rage Pro and Rage 128 chipsets. I doubt that old card can hack OpenGL, so in addition to disabling the MPP Manager, Rage 128 and Radeon 3D drivers, you can also disable all the OpenGL stuff. It will do RAVE, so leave the ATI 3D driver and all the QT3D stuff active.

I have three versions of the original Apple/ATI drivers for that card, but you haven't asked me to send them. Do you want to try them first?

You can never use ATI's Universal Installer on an Apple OEM card even though ATI built it. The installer looks for the ATI retail ROM.



[This message has been edited by Louie (edited 13 June 2001).]

professor
06-13-2001, 09:51 PM
That card came with our avid editing system which is indeed on a 9500 machine. I bought the 2 meg upgrade off ebay, just do a search on mach 64. I think it cost around 15 bucks.

Louie
06-13-2001, 11:56 PM
Professor, I remember when you did that. What drivers are you using? I found Graphic Accelerator II v1.1 on the System 7.6.1 CD. OS 8 switched to the ATI long list.

levelbest
06-14-2001, 05:49 AM
OK, Thanks,
Yes, please send me the drivers that you think will work. I am downloading the Apple GL driver package that you provided the link to as we speak.

I am wondering about the upgrade options. The dealer had another style of PCI card with two standard memory slots on it, just like VRAM slots. This card does not have that type of slot. This card has two small black strips, perforated with 2 rows of little round holes. It looks like where the motherboard has a place for the DAV cards. Since I have never seen what plugs into there, or how, I can only assume that something does go there.

Is that still the card you thought it was and can I still find memory to plug into it?

Thanks,
lb

Louie
06-14-2001, 03:30 PM
I just mailed the old drivers.

Professor will have to answer the description question. The other card may be the retail version.

levelbest
06-14-2001, 06:12 PM
Thanks for sending the drivers, and the link. At this time I would like to thank all who helped with this thread. And, I am going to take the card back.

I have taken the following actions, all with zero effect on my video performance:
Installed the extensions E-mailed to me.
Installed the drivers from the Apple page.
Yes, I even found a way to install at least one of the stock ATI drivers via custom install.

I give up.

lb

magician
06-14-2001, 08:26 PM
one thing to keep in mind is that that card was typically installed in early 9500's, which lacked logic board video.

They are old, slow, 64-bit cards, and it might be a bit ambitious to expect them to outperform later boards like those made by IMS (later ixMicro). I seem to recall testing years ago and confirming that these boards weren't particularly faster than the logic board video on systems like the 7500 or 8500, for example....and if you think about it, this makes sense when you also recall that the logic board video on those machines was fairly advanced for its day, running along a 64-bit bus at logic board bus rates (40-50MHz).

professor
06-15-2001, 12:18 AM
here's what ours looks like.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1246457018

here's what it looks like with the memory module.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1245549463

Louie
06-15-2001, 02:29 PM
Very good Professor! That second pix made me drunk.

levelbest
06-15-2001, 04:26 PM
Yes, that's the card! Eurika!
Can you tell me what it runs at on your machine? I use a nifty little utility (free) to take video transfer data rates. I couldn't tell you what it means exactly but, it gives me a relative measure to know if yours is any faster than my stock 7600 video.

TimeVideo is free, and may be freely distributed. You can get the latest
version from: http://vision.nyu.edu/VideoToolbox/Download.html

lb

professor
06-15-2001, 09:28 PM
I couldn't tell you what it runs at. Cann't download anythin to see because don't have a mac on the net. Yes that's right, I do graphics and editing on a mac, but almost everything else on a pc. Sorry for the disappointment.

Louie
06-15-2001, 10:44 PM
Mail him the tester. Use Stuffit to make it a .zip file. Put it on a PC floppy. The 9500 can open it

levelbest
06-16-2001, 06:44 AM
I would be happy to do that. Such a cool little program. Can you help me to find a utility that will stuff a zip file for PC format? I have a really old version of stuffit deluxe (3.?). I also have the latest MacLink (12). I was trying a program called MacZip, a shareware utility I picked up years ago. But I couldn't make much sense of it.

I do have it in a .sit file now. I don't know if that will do the professor any good... Any suggestions on who has a zip scheme that I could learn to use in my arsenal in the future?

By the way, I just read the info file on that video testing software. Very interesting. It explains it rather well. It even mentions that several bugs have been found in different cards. Sometimes in the cards ROM, sometimes in the drivers.O didn't look up which ones had the bugs or what the bugs were, but I certainly am going to put that site on my shopping list before getting a really fast card.

lb

Louie
06-16-2001, 12:13 PM
There's a free Stuffit Expander for Windows that you could send along with it. Your problem is Stuffit 3.x; it's completely out of date, two major format changes. Only someone with Stuffit Deluxe could open what you stuff. The latest Drop Stuff 6.02 is $30.

You could send the file to me and I can get it to him if he sends his PC address and wants to play thr game.

Louie
06-17-2001, 12:31 PM
I just retrans'd TimeVideo.zip to Professor.

Louie
06-17-2001, 07:32 PM
And he got it. Will try it tomorrow at work.

professor
06-22-2001, 12:32 AM
sorry guys, keep forgetting take the disk to work, works been busy, bush made a visit to the area today, lots of fun watching the news department scramble.