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levelbest
06-07-2001, 07:30 AM
From SYSTEM PROFILER:

PCI slot $B1

Display card
Card Type: Display
Card make: IMS,tt128mbA
Card model: tt128m
Card Revision: 1
Card Vender ID: 1OEO

The above card came from a private vendor at the recent garage sale my mac user group hosts semi annually. He couldn't tell me what it was or anything other than it worked on my machine Was a pci card, etc. I paid $20 for it so I may take it back if it turns out to do me no good at all.

I am running it now even as I write this so, it does work. But it does not give very noticable video acceleration. In fact, maybe a little poorer. The only test I can think to try is a full screen game. Doesn't play any better. And the Netscape pages scroll slowly and a little more jerkily than usual.

I searched Google under "IMS,tt128mbA" and found some Linux tips. Apparently this card was stock in the 9600/300? But when I found and downloaded the latest ix micro driver "Twin Turbo¬ô Software 4.06", It said that the software can't be used because I don't have one of their products installed in one of my pci slots. So, maybe it is a ix micro, and maybe it isn't. Maybe an earlier version of the driver will work with this card, maybe not. Maybe there is some hack or tweak I can do to it under resedit or some such that will make it so....

I see this as a learning opportunity. Like a recent post on installing a second internal hd, this will be something to learn about with video cards.

Any tips? Any thought? Any help?

Thanks
lb

ChrisYip
06-07-2001, 09:05 AM
Hi...

That sounds like my ixMicro card that I have in my PTP.. only I have MB 8 rather than MBA

What machine is this in? and what OS are you running? I just installed that version of the TwinTurbo software on my machine this morning and all is well - it seems faster than the original Apple monitor drivers (check the TwinTurbo forum posting from earlier this morning).

Chris

levelbest
06-07-2001, 09:37 AM
Hello, I am running system 8.6 on a 7600 powermac. I looked but didn't see a twin turbo posting from this morning. Did I miss it or was it under a different title? This is what I have done so far:

Found a freeware download for checking the video timing. I don't understand all the terms but the figures seem to indicate that the card is indeed transferring data at a slower pace than my on board video.

Found a multi resolution control strip plug in for odd frequencies. May be of use in an earlier post of mine looking to get a Radius pivot to function.

If the card is indeed slower than the on board video, as shown in the numbers for data transfer rates, then I will see if I can get the guy to take back the card.

I am new to video upgrades. In fact, this is my first PCI card of any kind. So I was kinda anxious to get SOMETHING to plug in there to mess with.

BTW, more questions about the card;

¬ď How can I tell how much memory is on the card?

¬ď There was no documentation with it so I can't tell what it was designed for or what I need to optimize it? Drivers? Versions?

¬ď I wasn't sure if it seemed more slow because I don't yet have a proper driver or not?

If it turned out to have 8 megs of memory, 4 more than my on board system, and it still has these numbers (below) that show slower data transfer rates, is it ever going to be more useful than what I already am using on board for video?

Thanks all.
lb

On board Video:
PowerMac 7500,7600/200 "control" (.Display_Video_Apple_Control version 10.0f1)
[GDGetDelay:CLUT timing: dontWaitForVBL=1, delay 80 ns per rgb triplet]

8-bit dacs. 640x480 pixels.
pixel size 8 16 32 bits

pages 1 1 1

mode 0x80 0x81 0x82

frame rate 66.6 66.6 66.6 Hz

interrupts per frame 1.0 1.0 1.0

CopyBits data rate 31.85 28.76 28.85 MB/s

CopyBitsQuickly data rate 39.02 33.33 34.48 MB/s

cscSetEntries duration 0.01 0.00 0.01 frames

cscSetEntries suppresses ints.for 0.0 0.0 -0.0 frames

GDSetEntriesHighPriority duration 0.01 0.01 0.01 frames

color: cscSetEntries test ok ok ok
gray: cscSetEntries test ok ok ok
(ROut± 0.5%) (0.30 0.59 0.11) (RIn)
(GOut± 0.5%)=(0.30 0.59 0.11)x(GIn)
(BOut± 0.5%) (0.30 0.59 0.11) (BIn)


Video with Card:

"IMS,tt128mbA" (.Display_TwinTurbo_A version 3.0.7f1) slot B1

8-bit dacs. 640x480 pixels.
pixel size 8 16 32 bits

pages 1 1 1

mode 0x80 0x81 0x82

frame rate 66.8 66.8 66.8 Hz

interrupts per frame 1.0 1.0 1.0

CopyBits data rate 16.96 16.84 16.84 MB/s

CopyBitsQuickly data rate 21.47 21.21 22.50 MB/s

cscSetEntries duration 1.00 0.20 1.00 frames

cscSetEntries suppresses ints.for 1.0 0.2 1.0 frames

GDSetEntriesHighPriority duration 1.00 0.23 1.00 frames

color: cscSetEntries test ok ok ok
gray: cscSetEntries test ok ok ok
(ROut± 0.4%) (0.30 0.59 0.11) (RIn)
(GOut± 0.4%)=(0.30 0.59 0.11)x(GIn)
(BOut± 0.4%) (0.30 0.59 0.11) (BIn)

ChrisYip
06-07-2001, 09:54 AM
Here you go:
http://www.macgurus.com/ubb/Forum12/HTML/000135.html

It should be an 8 MB card based on the ASP info since that matches up mine.

Try downloading the driver from the 'Gurus FTP site as per the above link...

Chris.

levelbest
06-07-2001, 10:37 AM
Wow, such a drag.
The version you sent me to on the Gurus ftp site looks newer than the 4.0 I downloaded this morning from another site. BUT...

The Gurus ftp page says: File missing... or some such. (couldn't download it)

Soooo.... I tried using interarchy to get it.

The Gurus ftp site said "permission denied.

bummer.

Any moderators out there who can help with a redirect?

Thanks.
lb

kaye
06-07-2001, 11:18 AM
lb,

Try here http://www.jps.net/billmill/drivers.html or here http://eshop.macsales.com/Tech/index.cfm?load=ixmicro.html k

ChrisYip
06-07-2001, 12:16 PM
Hey - just try going into the Guru's FTP site anonymously

The links via Netscape get screwy (i.e. they miss part of the link)

I just used the "ftp.macgurus.com" and navigated in Interachy... worked fine...

Chris

levelbest
06-07-2001, 01:10 PM
Hmmmm....
Strainge how the site works for you but not for me. Oh well. One of the links Kaye included was indeed where I got my version just this morning. Turns out that is the one that can't recognize the card. Just in case, probabably silly to even try, but, you never know, I downloaded the oldest version, also from the same site (http://www.jps.net/billmill/drivers.html)

I get the same problem. Opening the control panel for thwe twin turbo gives me the following dialogue on a little flash screen, and nothing else,

"A Twin Turbo PCI card cannot be found on this Macintosh. Please sutdown check instalation and try again."

I am using Twin Turbo version 4.06

You can see from my earlier post what the cards id is. So, I am still mystified. Is it possable for the card to be seated enough in the PCI slot to have a monitor plugged into it and work, and still not be seated correctly? Seems not very likely.

lb

ChrisYip
06-07-2001, 01:46 PM
Umm - maybe try a different slot? (seems a bit bizarre but ...)

Chris

ChrisYip
06-07-2001, 01:47 PM
lb, I just e-mailed you the software as an attachment - that is the exact version I installed this morning...

Chris

levelbest
06-07-2001, 01:48 PM
Me again,
I just checked to see if the card was seated. While I was at it I moved it to each of the 3 pci slots in my 7600 and restarted each time. Same message each time. I can't get it to recognize the card. Currently I left it in the slot nearest to the processor.

????
lb

trag
06-07-2001, 03:10 PM
How long is that card? Is it about 7" long or is it more like 9 - 12" long? The reason I ask is that the Ult. Rez. uses a chip that appears as a TT128 if I am remembering correctly. The Twin Turbos are 7" cards; the Ult. Rez. are 9" or longer. Although, it may be that the 8 MB TT is longer than 7".

Second, there was an ixMicro version of the TT and an Apple OEM version of the TT. The ixMicro should work with the drivers you've tried, but the Apple OEM version will not. For the Apple version you need the 9600 Graphics Extension and then you use the normal Apple Monitors and Sounds control panel with it. The ixMicro software will not work with the Apple version of the card.

The simplest way to tell which version of the TT you have (if TT it is) is to see how many monitor ports it has. The Apple version just has one DB15 monitor port. The ixMicro version has a DB15 port and a VGA port (only use one at a time).

levelbest
06-07-2001, 04:03 PM
It's 7" long.
It has one port on it.
The searches I did on Google seemed to suggest that it was as stock card from a 9600/300.

Where can I get a "9600 Graphics Extension"? And eventually, when I get the G3 card for the machine (604e now) will I need to drop the card? I have read that accelerated older macs like mine have bad artifacting problems with video which are oddly taken care of by removing Appl;es video drivers. Is a apple video driver the same thing as the "9600 Graphics Extension"?

And more importantly, if the numbers I posted earlier in this thread are accurate, why shouldn't I try to get my money back on the card? It looks as though the card is half the speed of my 7600 on board video. Or is that only true because it currently has no driver?

Corn-fused.

lb

ChrisYip
06-07-2001, 04:08 PM
Uh oh - looks like you might on a question for that extension....

Trag - your comment on the "use only one at a time" - what happens if you use both - which I did for a bit. I had an Apple 14" and a Nec 15" on the card at the same time - display showed up on both (mirrored) at the same resolution - too bad you can't span...

Chris

ChrisYip
06-07-2001, 04:14 PM
Try here:
http://garysmac.mine.nu/ext_list_display.html

Looks like you might need to get it off an 8.5 CD...

Chris

levelbest
06-07-2001, 04:47 PM
I found it,
http://www.commotionpro.com/support/video_card.html

Unfortunately, putting it in my extensions folder and restarting gave me unreadable print. All places that had print, menus, dialogues, Icon names, looked like huge bar codes.

I tried again after removing any other suspicious looking video drivers which might have been competing. Same results.

The question remains, if the rate is slower than my stock 7600, why even use it?

Is there any way of finding out if this card does work in my 7600 beyond trial and error?

Sigh.

lb

trag
06-07-2001, 06:15 PM
The acceleration for the TT isn't enabled until you load the extensions for it. So the mode you are running in right now is much slower than the card's potential with the drivers loaded.

However, the results you got with the 9600 Graphics extension does not sound good. You may wish to create an extension set which loads nothing but the 9600 Graphics extension and hte Monitors and Sounds CP, just to see if it works properly. If it does, then the problem is likely an extension conflict. If it does not, then the card may be bad.

When operating in accelerated mode these cards access their VRAM differently that when operating without their drivers. So flaws in the VRAM that don't show in non-accellerated mode appear with the drivers loaded.

I also have a copy of the 9600 Graphics extension here: http://www.io.com/~trag So you may wish to try another copy. Also, if you get the poor graphics again, try changing screen resolutions and see if that snaps it back to working properly.

Chris using both outputs can damage the card and for most people causes both ports to give unsatisfactory output. I'm surprised it worked well for you. But the card is not meant to be used that way.

ChrisYip
06-07-2001, 06:33 PM
Hmm - interesting - I won't try that again then ;-).. I basically had one monitor up and then plugged the other one into it.. but no mind - Now that I've got this one 15" running at 1024 x 768 I'm happy..

But - next step - a Radeon...

Chris

levelbest
06-07-2001, 07:39 PM
OK,
I am ready to give up. I tried setting up an extensions setting just for the 9600 extensions and 8.6 minimum stuff. No frills. Same yuk on the screen.

I even (boldly) tried a different monitor rate. How delightfully challenging it has been to get it all back to normal again. Whew!

I will see if I can find the guy from the user group garage sale and get him to take it back.

I was hoping that even some kind of pci graphics card would do better than what I had. Sigh...

I would like to find a good price on an Orion. From what I have read that would be the cadillac for this machine. Ebay is the only place I have seen them.

Thanks for all the help and feedback, all. If anything else occurs, please let me know?

Again, thanks.
lb

levelbest
06-07-2001, 10:40 PM
Wow!!!
This forum rocks! A couple of folks sent attachments my way. (Thanks Chip, Chris) One was another version of the 9600 extension than I was using. And, it's really late, I was just clearing out my messages after wrestling with this problem all day (thanks forum), and, what the heck, I tried the new extension.

IT WORKS!!! Freakin awesome. I don't know how to measure it but the scrolling is definitely faster, the menus snap on faster and the game actually works in full page mode (closet power pete - mighty mike fan)

Thanks thanks thanks. I would have felt informed and a winner even if it hadn't worked and I had to return it. But, THIS is SO much BETTER for an outcome.

Yee haa.

lb